Here After with Megan Devine iHeartPodcasts

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry? 

 

In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly. 

 

In this two-part episode we cover: 

 


What is the right amount of anger?
Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful 
What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??) 
Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief”
Is anger the most social emotion?
How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want
Finding your best community by embracing your anger

 

About our guest:

 

Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in Time, the Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly



Additional resources

 

We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com

 

To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK. If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed. 

 

Get in touch:

 

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

 

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

 

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

 

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs new book, The Way Up, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace. 

 

What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles. 



In this episode we cover: 

 


Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief
How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career
Can we get behind the headlines and really understand the actual humans behind the crisis in healthcare access? (hint: yes, but it involves activating certain brain centers) 
Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti 
Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable) 
Navigating racism in the corporate world

 

About our guest: 

Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures. 



Find his new book, The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color, wherever you get books.

 

 Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms, or visit errolpierre.com

 

Additional resources:

For more on grief in the workplace, read “The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era” and “How to Talk to a Grieving Customer”

 

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

 

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

 

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

 

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Amy Choi and Rebecca Lehrer are used to exploring complexities. As hosts of the podcast The Mash-up Americans, they cover all sorts of complex intersections of identity and culture. In this episode of Here After, they join me to talk about Mashup Americans’ newest series, Grief, Collected. 

 

In this episode we cover: 

 


Amy’s brilliant grief avoidance/childbirth analogy & what we need in order to come out of our dark little nests into the light of grief
The real nuance in whether most people are over the “acute phase” of grief after one year
Will listening to “Ripple” by the Grateful Dead elicit grief bursts from everyone, or is it just us? 
Why NOT grieving was the right move for people fleeing wars and political unrest 
What Amy and Rebecca learned - about grief, about American culture, and about themselves - in producing their show, Grief, Collected (spoiler: they learned a lot!) 
Why telling the truth about grief - without trying to resolve it - is the best hope we have for the future

 

Content note: mention of pregnancy and childbirth

 

Notable quotes: 

 

“One of those bummers is you can't exercise once, and then you're done exercising. It’s like - it f*cking sucks that you just have to keep doing it. And I think that's the thing with grief - you can't mourn something once and then be like, okay, well, now, I'm done with the grief portion of my life.” - Rebecca Lehrer

 

“NOT grieving is actually a survival strategy.” - Amy Choi



About our guests:

Amy Choi is co-founder and editorial director of The Mash-Up Americans. A Korean-American married to a Colombian-Mexican-American, she is mom to two feisty Korombexican-Americans: in other words, The Future of America. She specializes in getting people to tell stories they never expected to share. 

 

Rebecca Lehrer is the co-founder and CEO of The Mash-Up Americans. She’s spent 18+ years doing strategy, marketing, and audience development in media, arts, and culture. Her work focuses on the shared cultural experiences that bring people together, and re-centering stories on voices you don’t usually hear.



Additional resources

 

Check out the entire Grief, Collected series at griefcollected.com and The Mash-Up Americans at mashupamericans.com



For more on historical responses to loss, and ways to change the entire culture, personally and collectively, check out It’s OK That You’re Not OK wherever you get your books



Get in touch:

 

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

 

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

 

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

 

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever wanted to just SMASH things? Leanne Pedante and her husband Miles’ relationship was built on bravery and communication - they worked so hard to reach the next step together, excited to explore the edges of possibility in love and in life. On his way back to see Leanne after several months away, Miles’ car veered off the road, and he was killed. In the just under two years since, Leanne has continued to grow the virtual reality fitness community, Supernatural. As a late-comer to fitness, Leanne is no stranger to using movement as a way to process and express pain. In today’s show, we discuss the ways grief has upended her life, and the ways that both movement and community have kept her alive - willing, at least most days, to lean into the full experience of life. 

 

In this episode we cover: 

 


Punk-style relationships: how Leanne and Miles created a marriage that suited them
What one friend told Leanne, and how those words kept her tethered to the world
Why grief-informed fitness should really be a thing
The weird world of encouraging others to do things you’re not comfortable doing yourself



About our guest:

Leanne Pedante is a trainer and trauma + resiliency coach, whose work focuses on connecting people to their bodies and to their full potential. She works as both coach and the Head of Fitness for Supernatural, the VR fitness platform. Her own workouts let her celebrate her physical and mental strength and she wants to show others how to access the pride and power within joyful movement. Her husband, Miles, died in a car accident in 2021.

 

Additional resources:

Sign up for Leanne’s newsletter and check out the other community-building things she’s created at her website

 

Try Supernatural with a free trial (you do need a VR headset)

 

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

 

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

 

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

 

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with a re-release of my conversation with historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler. 

 

In this episode: 


How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great? 
Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy
The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love
Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you



Notable quotes: 

“Aggressive futurism prevents us from being honest” - Dr. Kate Bowler

“I want my suffering to be translatable. If I can't be translated, I can't be seen.” - Dr. Kate Bowler

“We weaponize acceptance. It's applied from the outside as this end goal that you need to get to in order to be palatable to the others around you.” - Megan 



About Kate:

 

Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason, Dr. Bowler stages a national conversation around why it’s so difficult to speak frankly about suffering through her popular podcast, Everything Happens. She has appeared on NPR, The TODAY Show, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and TIME Magazine. Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible. Follow her @Katecbowler on all social Platforms.



Get in touch:

 

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your comments or thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

 

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co



For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

 

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The end of the year is always a flurry of resolutions and “next year will be even better!” sentiments. If your life has been anything but awesome lately, a “new year, new start” can feel impossible. In this special two part episode, we face the new year together - with a re-release of my conversation with historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler. 

 

In this part one of this episode: 


How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great? 
Why New Year’s resolutions tend to make life feel like an endless self-improvement project
Finding motivation to set goals for yourself
The difference between transactional hope and functional hope

 

About Kate:

 

Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason, Dr. Bowler stages a national conversation around why it’s so difficult to speak frankly about suffering through her popular podcast, Everything Happens. She has appeared on NPR, The TODAY Show, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and TIME Magazine. Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible. Follow her @Katecbowler on all social Platforms.

 

Get in touch:

 

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your comments or thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

 

Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

 

For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.