68 episodes

Each week on Here After, join best-selling author and psychotherapist Megan Devine for conversations with interesting people about difficult things.

There’s a lot going on lately (understatement). From personal losses to bigger collective sweeps of let’s just call it - a lot of awful things? - everything is a lot. It’s a really human thing to hope things will get better (even when you’re not sure how they possibly could). So this season on Here After with Megan Devine: we go looking for hope. But not your airy, flaky “hoping for the best” kind of hope. Here After explores the kind of hope you get from telling the truth about how hard things are, the hope you get from keeping your eyes open and refusing to let your heart shut down. Real world hope, with guests from the front lines of grief, loss, trauma, education and activism.

Here After with Megan Devine is how you’d imagine the coolest dinner party ever might be: conversations that leave you feeling seen, heard, and even a little inspired to head back out into the world to have your own conversations about difficult - and hopeful - things. New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK that You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia.

Here After with Megan Devine iHeartPodcasts

    • Health & Fitness
    • 5.0 • 14 Ratings

Each week on Here After, join best-selling author and psychotherapist Megan Devine for conversations with interesting people about difficult things.

There’s a lot going on lately (understatement). From personal losses to bigger collective sweeps of let’s just call it - a lot of awful things? - everything is a lot. It’s a really human thing to hope things will get better (even when you’re not sure how they possibly could). So this season on Here After with Megan Devine: we go looking for hope. But not your airy, flaky “hoping for the best” kind of hope. Here After explores the kind of hope you get from telling the truth about how hard things are, the hope you get from keeping your eyes open and refusing to let your heart shut down. Real world hope, with guests from the front lines of grief, loss, trauma, education and activism.

Here After with Megan Devine is how you’d imagine the coolest dinner party ever might be: conversations that leave you feeling seen, heard, and even a little inspired to head back out into the world to have your own conversations about difficult - and hopeful - things. New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK that You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia.

    Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly

    Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly

    What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry? 

     

    In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly. 

     

    In this two-part episode we cover: 

     


    What is the right amount of anger?
    Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful 
    What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??) 
    Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief”
    Is anger the most social emotion?
    How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want
    Finding your best community by embracing your anger

     

    About our guest:

     

    Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in Time, the Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly



    Additional resources

     

    We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com

     

    To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK. If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed. 

     

    Get in touch:

     

    Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

     

    Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

     

    For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

     

    For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

     

    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    • 42 min
    It’s Not Just Business: Healthcare Equity & leadership with Dr. Errol Pierre

    It’s Not Just Business: Healthcare Equity & leadership with Dr. Errol Pierre

    Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs new book, The Way Up, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace. 

     

    What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles. 



    In this episode we cover: 

     


    Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief
    How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career
    Can we get behind the headlines and really understand the actual humans behind the crisis in healthcare access? (hint: yes, but it involves activating certain brain centers) 
    Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti 
    Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable) 
    Navigating racism in the corporate world

     

    About our guest: 

    Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures. 



    Find his new book, The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color, wherever you get books.

     

     Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms, or visit errolpierre.com

     

    Additional resources:

    For more on grief in the workplace, read “The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era” and “How to Talk to a Grieving Customer”

     

    Get in touch:

    Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

     

    Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

     

    For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

     

    For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

     

    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    • 54 min
    Grief, Collected with Amy Choi and Rebecca Lehrer

    Grief, Collected with Amy Choi and Rebecca Lehrer

    Amy Choi and Rebecca Lehrer are used to exploring complexities. As hosts of the podcast The Mash-up Americans, they cover all sorts of complex intersections of identity and culture. In this episode of Here After, they join me to talk about Mashup Americans’ newest series, Grief, Collected. 

     

    In this episode we cover: 

     


    Amy’s brilliant grief avoidance/childbirth analogy & what we need in order to come out of our dark little nests into the light of grief
    The real nuance in whether most people are over the “acute phase” of grief after one year
    Will listening to “Ripple” by the Grateful Dead elicit grief bursts from everyone, or is it just us? 
    Why NOT grieving was the right move for people fleeing wars and political unrest 
    What Amy and Rebecca learned - about grief, about American culture, and about themselves - in producing their show, Grief, Collected (spoiler: they learned a lot!) 
    Why telling the truth about grief - without trying to resolve it - is the best hope we have for the future

     

    Content note: mention of pregnancy and childbirth

     

    Notable quotes: 

     

    “One of those bummers is you can't exercise once, and then you're done exercising. It’s like - it f*cking sucks that you just have to keep doing it. And I think that's the thing with grief - you can't mourn something once and then be like, okay, well, now, I'm done with the grief portion of my life.” - Rebecca Lehrer

     

    “NOT grieving is actually a survival strategy.” - Amy Choi



    About our guests:

    Amy Choi is co-founder and editorial director of The Mash-Up Americans. A Korean-American married to a Colombian-Mexican-American, she is mom to two feisty Korombexican-Americans: in other words, The Future of America. She specializes in getting people to tell stories they never expected to share. 

     

    Rebecca Lehrer is the co-founder and CEO of The Mash-Up Americans. She’s spent 18+ years doing strategy, marketing, and audience development in media, arts, and culture. Her work focuses on the shared cultural experiences that bring people together, and re-centering stories on voices you don’t usually hear.



    Additional resources

     

    Check out the entire Grief, Collected series at griefcollected.com and The Mash-Up Americans at mashupamericans.com



    For more on historical responses to loss, and ways to change the entire culture, personally and collectively, check out It’s OK That You’re Not OK wherever you get your books



    Get in touch:

     

    Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

     

    Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

     

    For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

     

    For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

     

    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    • 1 hr 2 min
    The Full Experience: Fitness, Love, Death & Community with Supernatural Coach, Leanne Pedante

    The Full Experience: Fitness, Love, Death & Community with Supernatural Coach, Leanne Pedante

    Have you ever wanted to just SMASH things? Leanne Pedante and her husband Miles’ relationship was built on bravery and communication - they worked so hard to reach the next step together, excited to explore the edges of possibility in love and in life. On his way back to see Leanne after several months away, Miles’ car veered off the road, and he was killed. In the just under two years since, Leanne has continued to grow the virtual reality fitness community, Supernatural. As a late-comer to fitness, Leanne is no stranger to using movement as a way to process and express pain. In today’s show, we discuss the ways grief has upended her life, and the ways that both movement and community have kept her alive - willing, at least most days, to lean into the full experience of life. 

     

    In this episode we cover: 

     


    Punk-style relationships: how Leanne and Miles created a marriage that suited them
    What one friend told Leanne, and how those words kept her tethered to the world
    Why grief-informed fitness should really be a thing
    The weird world of encouraging others to do things you’re not comfortable doing yourself



    About our guest:

    Leanne Pedante is a trainer and trauma + resiliency coach, whose work focuses on connecting people to their bodies and to their full potential. She works as both coach and the Head of Fitness for Supernatural, the VR fitness platform. Her own workouts let her celebrate her physical and mental strength and she wants to show others how to access the pride and power within joyful movement. Her husband, Miles, died in a car accident in 2021.

     

    Additional resources:

    Sign up for Leanne’s newsletter and check out the other community-building things she’s created at her website

     

    Try Supernatural with a free trial (you do need a VR headset)

     

    Get in touch:

    Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

     

    Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

     

    For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

     

    For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

     

    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    • 1 hr 11 min
    New Year’s Resolutions vs “Aggressive Futurism” with Kate Bowler

    New Year’s Resolutions vs “Aggressive Futurism” with Kate Bowler

    Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with a re-release of my conversation with historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler. 

     

    In this episode: 


    How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great? 
    Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy
    The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love
    Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you



    Notable quotes: 

    “Aggressive futurism prevents us from being honest” - Dr. Kate Bowler

    “I want my suffering to be translatable. If I can't be translated, I can't be seen.” - Dr. Kate Bowler

    “We weaponize acceptance. It's applied from the outside as this end goal that you need to get to in order to be palatable to the others around you.” - Megan 



    About Kate:

     

    Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason, Dr. Bowler stages a national conversation around why it’s so difficult to speak frankly about suffering through her popular podcast, Everything Happens. She has appeared on NPR, The TODAY Show, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and TIME Magazine. Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible. Follow her @Katecbowler on all social Platforms.



    Get in touch:

     

    Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your comments or thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

     

    Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co



    For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

     

    For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

     

    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    • 24 min
    New Year, Same Old Feelings

    New Year, Same Old Feelings

    The end of the year is always a flurry of resolutions and “next year will be even better!” sentiments. If your life has been anything but awesome lately, a “new year, new start” can feel impossible. In this special two part episode, we face the new year together - with a re-release of my conversation with historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler. 

     

    In this part one of this episode: 


    How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great? 
    Why New Year’s resolutions tend to make life feel like an endless self-improvement project
    Finding motivation to set goals for yourself
    The difference between transactional hope and functional hope

     

    About Kate:

     

    Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason, Dr. Bowler stages a national conversation around why it’s so difficult to speak frankly about suffering through her popular podcast, Everything Happens. She has appeared on NPR, The TODAY Show, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and TIME Magazine. Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible. Follow her @Katecbowler on all social Platforms.

     

    Get in touch:

     

    Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your comments or thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 

     

    Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit megandevine.co

    For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at www.Megandevine.co

     

    For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT

     

    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    • 24 min

Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5
14 Ratings

14 Ratings

CourtSlobo ,

This Show is for Every Single Human

Megan Devine is one of the few voices who puts truth to pain and guides us towards honest ways of living with the realities of being human, when being human hurts more than we ever thought possible.

nomanleft4me ,

Megan is a Gift

I’ll never get tired of hearing her talk. Megan has such a refreshing and inclusive way of talking about death and grieving. She gives people permission to be themselves by acknowledging the many diverse experiences people have during the hardest times in their lives. She’s honest, open hearted and truly deserves respect for taking her own experience with grief and using it to create a world where people who are grieving can get the support and acknowledgment they truly deserve. So much love and respect to you, Megan.

215 B ,

All of Megan Devine’s work on grief

I so appreciate Megan Devine’s body of work on grief and her ability to challenge our anti grief culture in North America. Thank you Megan for your insight, dedication and knowledge.
You’ve helped make the unbearable ( loss of a 19 year old son to aggressive cancer ) slightly more bearable, grateful for your podcasts and books!

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