Psychologists Off the Clock Drs. Debbie Sorensen, Yael Schonbrun, & Jill Stoddard

Let’s end the unrealistic expectations placed on mothers and give them the freedom to make choices that benefit themselves, their children, and their communities.
Join Debbie and Jessica Grose, a writer for The New York Times, as they jump deep into the systemic and cultural challenges of modern motherhood. Through highlights from her book, “Screaming on the Inside”, Jessica offers insights backed by science on how to navigate the tough journey of parenting and answers the big question of whether there is hope for a better future for mothers.
With engaging discussions about societal expectations, generational differences in motherhood, and the importance of validation and compassion in the process, Jessica brings a treasure trove of valuable information and guidance. Whether you are a new mom or an experienced parent, this is a thought-provoking conversation that will leave you feeling supported and empowered.

Listen and Learn: 

Before motherhood, what were some of the ideal stories, norms, and expectations that Jessica internalized?

What we're seeing at this current cultural moment in parenting and what it means to be a parent that might be different from a couple of generations ago.

How the standards of motherhood are embedded in a history of racism and classism.

How the COVID pandemic impacted women specifically. 

The challenges working mothers face and how the pressure to be the “ideal worker” is incompatible with caregiving responsibilities. 

Why are we not seeing the whole picture when it comes to the way that motherhood is portrayed on social media?

Is it time to establish more rigorous limits on our social media usage?

What if the bar for being a good mother was simply that your children felt safe and loved?

Jessica's personal experience with mom guilt and her tactics for responding to this feeling.

Is there hope for sustainable motherhood, and what are some of the positive changes we are already seeing? 


Resources: 


Jessica’s website: https://jessicagrose.com

Follow Jessica on Twitter @JessGrose, Facebook @Jessica-Grose and Instagram @jessgrosewrites

Subscribe to Jessica’s NY Times Newsletter



Screaming on the Inside: The Unsustainability of American Motherhood: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063078352


About Jessica Grose 
Jessica Grose is an opinion writer at The New York Times. Her new book “Screaming on the Inside: The Unsustainability of American Motherhood” (Mariner Books) is out now! Jess was the founding editor of Lenny, the email newsletter and website. She also writes about women’s health, culture, and grizzly bears. She was named one of LinkedIn’s Next Wave top professionals 35 and under in 2016 and a Glamour “Game Changer” in 2020 for her coverage of the pandemic. Her second novel, SOULMATES, was published in 2016. It’s about a broken marriage, a spiritual awakening, and a murder at a yoga retreat. Soulmates is “delightfully sly” according to Elle, “a killer read” per Cosmopolitan, and “compelling, funny, painful and wry,” says the Globe and Mail. Her debut novel, SAD DESK SALAD, came out in 2012. It takes place at a women’s website and Jess refers to it as “the devil wears sweatpants.” Glamour called it “Dishy, zingy, hilarious.” She was formerly a senior editor at Slate, and an editor at Jezebel. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, New York, the Washington Post, Businessweek, Elle, Cosmopolitan, and many other publications. She lives in Brooklyn with her husband and daughters. Follow her on Twitter @JessGrose and Instagram @JessGroseWrites.

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We’ve all been there: saying yes when we really wanted to say no. It happens all the time, from work requests and invitations, or favors for friends. Saying no can result in offense, awkwardness, and sometimes even trouble with relationships and reputations, so we often choose yes instead. However, in this episode, our guest encourages us to change our mindset. Saying no can actually empower us and should be seen as a valuable skill.

Author Vanessa Patrick graces this episode to teach us the ins and outs of effective no-saying in her book, The Power of Saying No: The New Science of How to Say No That Puts You in Charge of Your Life. With experience, research, and sage advice to offer, Vanessa emphasizes why mastering the art of "no" is crucial and how to use our own values to make the right decisions.

Listen and Learn 

What fueled Vanessa to research and write about the topic of saying no? 

When it comes to saying no, why do we find it so difficult?

The main drivers of saying ‘yes’ when we want to say ‘no’.

The Acquaintance Trap.

Why saying yes can actually backfire sometimes. 

The Spotlight Effect and how you can better manage this when put on the spot.

How to use The ART of Empowered Refusal to say no that does not invite pushback.

How the two-by-two framework can be used to help categorize an ask and decide if it should be answered with a yes or a no.

Tips to manage pushback when we say ‘no’.

Do people in power receive fewer consequences for saying no than those from marginalized groups?


Resources 


Vanessa’s website: https://www.vanessapatrick.net/


Follow Vanessa on LinkedIn (@vanessapatrick23), Twitter (@sourcebooks / @vpatrick23), Tik Tok (@sourcebooksnonfiction) and Instagram (@vanpat23)

Follow Sourcebooks on Twitter (@sourcebooks), Tik Tok (@sourcebooksnonfiction) and Facebook (@sourcebooksnonfiction)


The Power of Saying No: The New Science of How to Say No That Puts You in Charge of Your Life: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781728251523

Pinkcast 1.17: Why you should say “I don’t” instead of “I can’t.”

How to Say No, Resist Temptation, and Stick to Your Health Goals

How Saying “I Don’t” at Work Can Change Your Life

A Policy of Saying ‘No’ Can Save You Time and Guilt

“I Don't” Beats “I Can't” for Self-Control

This Simple Trick Makes Breaking Bad Habits Up To 8 Times Easier


About Vanessa Patrick
Vanessa Patrick, PhD, is the Associate Dean for Research, the Bauer Professor of Marketing, and lead faculty of the Executive Women in Leadership Program at the Bauer School of Business at the University of Houston. She has a PhD in business from the University of Southern California and an MBA in marketing and a BS degree in microbiology and biochemistry from Bombay University in India. Patrick is a regular speaker at both academic and practitioner conferences. She lives in Houston, Texas.

Related Episodes 

130. Working Less with Alex Pang

163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez

186. Set Boundaries Find Peace with Nedra Tawwab

211. Subtract with Leidy Klotz

276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson

293. Quit with Annie Duke

298. Drama Free with Nedra Tawwab


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Teenagers naturally experience a rollercoaster of emotions, making everyday pressures and transitional changes overwhelming for parents and adolescents alike. Our guest Lisa Damour, a clinical psychologist, and best-selling author of ‘The Emotional Lives of Teenagers’ emphasizes the integrality of validating teenagers' emotions while also providing a framework on how to understand and support them. 
In this episode, Lisa reveals what to expect from teenage emotional development, and why we need to change the way we approach adolescent mental health. Learn effective ways to maintain open lines of communication, clearly articulate values, cope with common challenges such as too much gaming time and disengaging at school, and foster deeper bonds. With research-informed explanations and real-life examples, this episode gives parents the tools needed to support their teens through this difficult stage in life.

Listen and Learn: 

From where does the reputation of teenagers derive, and is it justified?

Why do teenagers experience such powerful emotions as they transition from childhood to adolescence? 

The distinction between hot and cold cognition, and how parents can use this knowledge to help their teenagers prepare for situations where they may become overwhelmed or not be able to think clearly.

Is it a myth that difficult emotions are damaging or should be avoided? 

How to help teenagers with expressing their feelings.

Why distraction can be an effective coping strategy for teens to regulate their emotions.

How communication and a sense of safety can have a meaningful impact on adolescent behavior.   

Why do teenagers find their parents so ‘annoying’?

Are there gender differences in emotion? 


Resources: 

For more on Lisa’s work, visit her website: https://drlisadamour.com/


Check out the Ask Lisa podcast: https://drlisadamour.com/resources/podcast/

Order your copy of Lisa’s books: 

The Emotional Lives of Teenagers: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593500019
Untangled: Guiding Teenage Girls Through the Seven Transitions Into Adulthood: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780553393071
Under Pressure: Confronting the Epidemic of Stress and Anxiety in Girls: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780399180071
Follow Lisa on Facebook (@lisadamourphd), Instagram (@lisa.damour) or Twitter (@LDamour)

About Lisa Damour 
Dr. Lisa Damour is the author of three New York Times best sellers: Untangled, Under Pressure, and The Emotional Lives of Teenagers. She co-hosts the Ask Lisa podcast, works in collaboration with UNICEF, and is recognized as a thought leader by the American Psychological Association. Dr. Damour is also a regular contributor to The New York Times and CBS News.

Dr. Damour serves as a Senior Advisor to the Schubert Center for Child Studies at Case Western Reserve University and has written numerous academic papers, chapters, and books related to education and child development. She maintains a clinical practice and also speaks to schools, professional organizations, and corporate groups around the world on the topics of child and adolescent development, family mental health, and adult well-being.
Dr. Damour graduated with honors from Yale University and worked for the Yale Child Study Center before earning her doctorate in Clinical Psychology at the University of Michigan. She has been a fellow at Yale’s Edward Zigler Center in Child Development and Social Policy and the University of Michigan’s Power Foundation. She and her husband are the proud parents of two daughters.
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Life is an incredible journey full of paradoxical demands that can sometimes feel overwhelming. But what if we could embrace both sides of the equation and turn these tensions into opportunities for growth? This is exactly what our guest Marianne Lewis teaches us in the groundbreaking book Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems that she coauthored with her colleague, Wendy Smith.
Delving into the risks of either-or thinking and the vicious cycles that can arise, Marianne and cohost, Yael discuss how binary thinking affects our lives. Packed with tools and lessons that will help you see the world with fresh eyes, you’ll learn tips on how to reframe questions, embrace paradoxes, as well as navigate complex tensions. If you're interested in exploring new ways of thinking and solving tough problems, this episode is for you!  

Listen and Learn: 

Why do we have difficulty escaping "either/or" thinking, and what impact does it have?

Why is it important to understand and embrace paradoxes in order to move away from binary thinking?

Question framing with the word 'how'

Negotiating conflict in a constructive way

The ways in which identifying a higher purpose can lessen friction between opposing factions

A few tips for setting guardrails to help you do your job and all your roles more sustainably

The impact of shifting from a scarcity mindset into an abundance mindset

Tools for responding to tensions in a positive way


Resources: 

Learn more about Marianne: https://business.uc.edu/faculty-and-research/departments/management/faculty/marianne-lewis.html


Follow Marianne on Twitter @mariannewlewis

Order Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems at our bookshop: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781647821043


A piece written by Yael that includes a quote from evolutionary psychologist on conflict: https://tricycle.org/article/working-parenthood-conflict/



About Marianne Lewis
Marianne W. Lewis is dean and professor of management at the College of Business, University of Cincinnati. She previously served as dean of the Business School at City, University of London. A thought leader in organizational paradoxes, she explores tensions surrounding leadership and innovation. Lewis has been recognized among the world’s most-cited researchers in her field and her work has appeared in media outlets, such as Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Newsweek. Her latest book Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems is co-authored with her colleague, Wendy Smith.

Related Episodes: 

Episode 51. The Psychology of Political Division with Yael and Debbie

Episode 234. The Power of Us with Dominic Packer

Episode 255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance


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In today's world, society is more polarized than ever before. With people taking positions on issues related to identity, diversity, and justice, engaging in these conversations can seem like a daunting task. Yet, this is precisely what we need to do if we want to build a more just and equitable society. 

In this regard, our latest episode where Jill Stoddard interviews author David Glasgow is a must-listen. Glasgow's book, "Say the Right Thing: How to Talk About Identity, Diversity, and Justice" provides valuable insights on how to approach these sensitive topics in a way that fosters understanding, empathy, and positive change.

The discussion delves into the controversial "cancel culture" and the need to show compassion and understanding towards those who make mistakes. Additionally, he emphasizes the importance of embracing a growth mindset and illustrates strategies to overcome conversational traps and navigate disagreements respectively. Take advantage of this opportunity to learn how to engage in challenging and compassionate conversations. Listen to the episode now!
Listen and Learn: 

How David’s background as a lawyer and personal struggle with belonging influenced his interest and career in social justice, equality, and inclusion.

What makes conversations surrounding identity so difficult and why do we shy away from having them in today’s society?

Why we should welcome the democratization of discomfort in social conversations. 

Cancel culture - why we should use this as an opportunity for growth, not villainization. 

How to respond to conversational traps.  

What privilege is and is not?

Why misunderstandings arise in identity conversations. 

How to ‘right-size’ feedback in relation to privilege or bias. 

Tips for respectfully disagreeing. 

How to apologize effectively using the Four R’s. 

Is cultural sensitivity helping or hindering the conversation around diversity and identity?

Resources: 

Learn more about David’s work as a diversity and inclusion specialist by visiting his website: https://www.david-glasgow.com/


Get your copy of Say the Right Thing: How to Talk about Identity, Diversity, and Justice at our bookshop: bookshop.org/a/30734/9781982181383



The Meltzer Center for Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging: law.nyu.edu/centers/belonging

Follow David on Twitter (@dvglasgow) 

Find out more about Deconstructing Karen referenced in the intro of this episode: deconstructingkaren.com


Thanks for the Feedback: The Science and Art of Receiving Feedback Well 

The Apology



About David Glasgow 
David Glasgow is the executive director of the Meltzer Center for Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging and an adjunct professor at NYU School of Law. He has written for a range of publications including the Harvard Business Review, HuffPost, and Slate, and served as an Associate Director of the Public Interest Law Center at NYU School of Law. Please visit him at david-glasgow.com. 
Related Episodes: 

76. Gender and Sexual Minorities with Aisling Leonard-Curtin and Matthew Skinta

96. Effective Conversations About Diversity with Anatasia Kim and Alicia del Prado

163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez

169. Microaggressions, Mental Health Disparities, and Racial Trauma with Monnica Williams

176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky

185. Good Guys: Allies in the Workplace with Brad Johnson and David Smith

273. A More Just Future with Dolly Chugh

290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston


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Join host Debbie Sorensen and former co-host and guest Diana Hill as they discuss the power of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and introduce their new resource: The ACT Daily Card Deck. Through personal anecdotes and examples, they emphasize the importance of living in the present moment and taking committed action that aligns with personal values. They also touch on the concepts of self-doubt, impermanence, and the role of emotions in our lives. 

With their creative exercises, like visiting their younger selves and the watering seeds exercise, they help listeners break down complex therapeutic concepts into everyday language that is easy to understand. Discover practical tools for leading a more fulfilling life that bridge the gap between theory and action. Listen now and learn how you too can benefit from ACT and become the master of your mind.

Listen and Learn: 

Diana and Debbie update us on what they’ve been up to and why they are joining forces for this special episode.

The importance of making ACT more accessible in our daily lives. 

Debbie and Diana demonstrate the six processes of ACT through examples of skills from their new ACT Daily Card Deck - from choosing thoughts, controlling your emotions, and the power of impermanence, to taking committed, value-based action, compassion, perspective taking, and mastering the art of being present.


Resources: 

Order your ACT Daily Card Deck: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781648481239


Go to drdianahill.com or her channels on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube (@drdianahill) to learn more

Visit Debbie’s website http://www.drdebbiesorensen.com/ for more information and resources 

Follow Debbie on Twitter (@debbiesorensen) or Instagram (@drdebbiesorensen)


About Diana and Debbie 
Diana Hill, PhD is a clinical psychologist, international trainer and sought-out speaker on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and compassion. Host of the podcast Your Life in Process and co-author of ACT Daily Journal, Diana works with organizations and individuals to develop psychological flexibility so that they can take wise action toward fulfilling and impactful lives. Integrating her over 20 years of meditation experience with yoga and psychological training, Diana blogs for Psychology Today, and guest teaches at InsightLA, Blue Spirit Costa Rica, PESI, Praxis Continuing Education, Yoga Soup and Insight Timer Meditation. Diana practices what she preaches in her daily life as a mom of two boys and bee guardian. 

Dr. Debbie Sorensen is a clinical psychologist with a private therapy practice in Denver. She specializes in providing individual Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for adults experiencing burnout, chronic stress, and anxiety. Debbie has a Ph.D. in Psychology from Harvard University, and a bachelor’s degree from the University of Colorado, Boulder. She is a co-author of the book ACT Daily Journal: Get Unstuck and Live Fully with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and a co-founder and co-host the popular psychology podcast Psychologists Off The Clock. She speaks and gives workshops nationally and internationally to mental health providers, schools, and organizations. She loves living in her home state of Colorado and enjoying the Rocky Mountains with her husband, two daughters, and dog. 

Related Episodes: 

77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard

195. ACT Daily with Diana Hill and Debbie Sorensen

237. Farewell to Diana Hill: Appreciations, Regrets, and Hopes


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