Better Future with Michael Mezz

Michael Mezzatesta

Bringing you the people, projects and ideas helping steer the world toward a better future.

  1. 3 days ago

    How to Overcome Capitalism – Jason Hickel on Socialism, China, and the West (016)

    My guest today is Dr. Jason Hickel – professor at the Institute for Environmental Science & Technology (ICTA) at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and author of The Divide and Less Is More. This is our second conversation on the podcast, and it comes at a moment of escalating geopolitical violence – in Iran, Lebanon, Cuba, and beyond. In this episode, we get into how these conflicts are symptoms of capitalist imperialism: Western states asserting dominance over sovereign-seeking states to protect their own growth. We dive into ecosocialism as an alternative to capitalism, and what economic democracy actually looks like in practice. We cover China’s rise – how its economy actually works, why the West has turned against it, and what it means for the Global South – and we end with a discussion of how to build the mass movements capable of bringing a better future to life. You can support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ Here are links to the resources mentioned in our conversation: Mondragon Corporation, the worker-owned cooperative federation in Spain that Jason mentions as a real-world model of economic democracy: https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/GKN Factory in Florence, Italy, which workers have converted from an auto parts plant into a solar panel factory: https://jacobin.com/2023/04/italy-gkn-factory-occupation-transform-production-workers-jobs-climate-changeJason’s Substack article on “delinking”: https://jasonhickel.substack.com/p/what-is-delinkingGlobal Inequality Project, a research platform by Jason and team that publishes data on imperialism, unequal exchange, and global inequality: https://globalinequality.org/ Learn more about Jason Hickel and his work: https://www.jasonhickel.org/ Follow Jason Hickel on social media:  Twitter: https://x.com/jasonhickel  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjasonhickel/  Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jasonhickel.bsky.social Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfv Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 What capitalism really is 01:09 Introducing Jason Hickel 02:20 Capitalist imperialism in action: Venezuela, Iran, Lebanon 05:27 Why the US supports Israel 08:45 Capitalism, coups & the war on sovereignty 22:13 How capitalism creates poverty 25:25 Socialism as a solution 31:41 Why solving the climate crisis means overcoming capitalism 36:09 Economic democracy in practice 48:09 Elections vs. revolution: building a mass movement 57:01 The immiseration of the Western working class 59:28 Socialism is our best alternative to fascism  1:06:31 The limits of identity politics 1:13:52 Why the West fears China’s rise 1:20:16 How China builds what the West won’t 1:32:54 Delinking from the capitalist law of value  1:38:02 Hope for a better future 1:46:51 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Jason Hickel Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Producer: Jade Risser Thanks for watching episode 016. Stay tuned for more!

    How to Overcome Capitalism – Jason Hickel on Socialism, China, and the West (016)

  2. 25 Jun

    How to Solve the Climate Crisis – Johan Rockström on Planetary Boundaries & the Path Forward (015)

    My guest today is Johan Rockström – one of the world’s leading climate scientists and the co-creator of the ‘planetary boundaries’ framework. His work is the scientific foundation for much of the new economic thinking I've explored on this show. We recorded this conversation at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, and our discussion covers why the climate crisis is no longer a purely environmental or moral issue but a question of security, resilience, and prosperity. We also dive into the nine planetary boundaries – what they are, how many we've breached – and the ecological tipping points we are approaching within the earth system. We end with a discussion of the path forward, including needed transformations across our energy and food systems – and how some countries are starting to lead the way toward a better future. You can support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ __ Johan references the second EAT-Lancet Commission report, which found that the way we produce and consume food is now the single largest cause of breaching planetary boundaries: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)01201-2/abstract He also references this Nature paper on the combined role of climate change and deforestation in pushing the Amazon rainforest across a potential tipping point: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10456-0 At the end of our conversation, we discuss the Second Conference for the Just Transition Away from Fossil Fuels, which is happening next year in Tuvalu: https://transitionawayconference.com/ __ Follow Johan Rockström: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johan-rockstr%C3%B6m-325551331/ X: https://x.com/@jrockstrom Follow the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PotsdamInstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pik-potsdam-institute-for-climate-impact-research/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pik_klima X: https://x.com/PIK_Climate Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfv Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ __ 00:00 Ecological overshoot – but there is a path forward 00:49 Introducing Johan Rockström 01:37 Narrative shift: climate is becoming a security issue 06:44 Planetary boundaries, explained 10:46 The Great Acceleration & the Anthropocene 13:35 7 of 9 boundaries exceeded but it’s not too late 22:20 Tipping points explained (with examples) 28:12 Debunking climate misinformation 34:41 What we need to do: Innovate within constraints 37:56 Energy transition & food system transition 42:01 The political economy of solving the climate crisis 44:44 The path forward: Building coalitions of the willing 51:59 Conclusion __ Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Johan Rockström Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 015. Stay tuned for more!

    How to Solve the Climate Crisis – Johan Rockström on Planetary Boundaries & the Path Forward (015)

  3. 4 Jun

    How Economics Failed Us – Kate Raworth on Why We Need Doughnut Economics Instead (014)

    My guest today is Kate Raworth – renegade economist, author of Doughnut Economics, and co-founder of the Doughnut Economics Action Lab. We get into why mainstream economics leaves out ecology, inequality, and human wellbeing – and what a 21st century economic framework should look like. Kate introduces doughnut economics: a model for meeting the needs of all people within the planetary boundaries of the planet. We discuss the fictional character at the core of mainstream economics, the entrenched narratives holding us back, and how cities like Amsterdam are adopting doughnut economics to move towards a better future.  Learn more about the Doughnut Economics Action Lab: https://doughnuteconomics.org/ Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ Subscribe to the Better Future podcast:  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0  Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Check out Kate’s website to learn more about her work: kateraworth.com Find Kate’s book, Doughnut Economics, on Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/p/books/doughnut-economics-seven-ways-to-think-like-a-21st-century-economist-kate-raworth/c567b77a6aa8a1bf Follow Kate on social media:  Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/kateraworth.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-raworth-188399291/ X: ⁠https://x.com/KateRaworth Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/  Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ Timestamps: 00:00 The myth of human nature 01:05 Introducing Kate Raworth 02:18 Should we trust economists? 09:03 The power of diagrams 11:14 Inside the doughnut 15:28 Externalities and earth systems 19:24 Rational Economic Man 28:01 Distributive ownership 31:05 Beyond the capitalism vs. socialism paradigm 39:29 Our addiction to growth 43:53 From growth to thriving 46:15 Mapping our lock-ins to growth 51:35 Doughnut economics in action 01:03:18 Having kids and climate anxiety 01:08:13 Kate as a circus ringmaster 01:19:52 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta  Guest: Kate Raworth  Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado  Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 014. Lots more on the way!

    How Economics Failed Us – Kate Raworth on Why We Need Doughnut Economics Instead (014)

  4. 13 May

    013 - Olivier De Schutter on Why the Economy Creates Poverty – and How To Fix It

    My guest today is Olivier De Schutter – UN Special Rapporteur on Extreme Poverty and Human Rights, and one of the most important voices in the global movement to redesign the economy around human wellbeing rather than endless growth for the ultra-rich. We recorded this conversation at the +Wellbeing Economy Forum in Iceland, and our discussion covers a lot of ground – the myths that prop up capitalism; the winners and losers of globalization; the case for economic democracy; how to direct capital toward care work and the solidarity economy; and what a post-growth transition would actually look like. For a detailed picture of the policies that can guide this transition, you can view the newly-released roadmap “Eradicating Poverty Beyond Growth” here: https://www.neep-poverty.org/roadmap-for-eradicating-poverty-beyond-growth/ Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ Learn more about the Wellbeing Economy Forum, an annual conference in Iceland for the wellbeing economy movement: https://www.wellbeingeconomyforum.com/ Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0  Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Olivier on social media:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivier-de-schutter-83990552/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/odeschutter/ X: https://x.com/DeSchutterO Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MICHAEL__MEZZ/ Watch our clips on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 Intro: The economy panders to the rich  00:58 Introducing Olivier De Schutter 01:47 Why capitalist efficiency is a myth  07:19 Has capitalism actually defeated poverty?  12:27 The commodification of life and the dismantling of the commons  16:28 The winners and losers of growth and globalization 22:21 The progressive alternative to protectionism  30:38 Why we need economic democracy  35:46 The Easterlin paradox: growth without happiness  39:34 Post-growth as a culture shift  43:10 How international debt traps the Global South  50:43 Care work, wages, and the solidarity economy 59:00 Recessions are not post-growth  01:02:45 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta  Guest: Olivier De Schutter  Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado  Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 013. Stay tuned for more!

    013 - Olivier De Schutter on Why the Economy Creates Poverty – and How To Fix It

  5. 29 Apr

    012 - Rob Hopkins on Radical Imagination & Falling in Love with the Future

    My guest today is Rob Hopkins – co-founder of the Transition Network, a global movement supporting communities to reimagine and rebuild their local economies in response to climate and economic crisis. He's the author of several books, including his most recent, How to Fall in Love with the Future, which makes the case that imagination – not fear – is the most powerful force for change we have. We discuss the limits of the climate movement’s fear-based narrative, Afrofuturist and other resistance movements bringing Rob and Michael hope, and what it means to build a mass longing for a better world. We also did a live imagination exercise with the audience – and you'll want to stick around for it. This was the first-ever live interview on the Better Future podcast, recorded at ChangeNOW in Paris. Learn more about Rob and his work: https://www.robhopkins.net/  Find his new book, How to Fall In Love With The Future, on Spotify and Bookshop. Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing:  Substack:⁠ https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/⁠  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0  Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Rob on social media:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robhopkins5085/ X: https://x.com/robintransition LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-hopkins-09442948/ Learn more about ChangeNOW, an annual climate solution conference in Paris: https://www.changenow.world/ Timestamps: 00:00 Filling our minds with stories of hope 00:53 Introducing Rob Hopkins  02:14 Why the future is being canceled (and colonized) 03:34 The problem with the climate movement 08:02 Afrofuturism, Sun Ra, and filling the future with stories  12:15 What “longing” means - and why it matters  16:43 Filling our minds with better stories 21:39 Is climate optimism naive? 26:04 Evidence-based dreaming  29:21 Stopping the rise of the far right: the UK Green Party 33:10 Why fascism hates creativity  38:33 Afrofuturist history & reimagining the future from the US 43:20 Live exercise: Imagining a better future 48:27 Conclusion Credits: Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta  Guest: Rob Hopkins  Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado  Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching, and see you soon!

    012 - Rob Hopkins on Radical Imagination & Falling in Love with the Future

  6. 10 Apr

    011 - Dr. Butch Ware on Dismantling the US Empire and the Two-Party System

    My guest today is Dr. Butch Ware – historian, professor, and Green Party candidate for Governor of California. In this episode, Dr. Ware argues that the Democrat-Republican duopoly serves the same corporate donors, wages the same wars, and has delivered the same failed outcomes for working people – and that California's 2026 governor's race is a chance for something better. We get into why the lesser-of-two-evils argument keeps well-intentioned voters trapped, what a world built around universal healthcare, housing, and human rights could look like, and how the ongoing collapse of the US empire might be the political opportunity progressives have been waiting for. Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/ Support Dr. Ware’s campaign for California Governor: https://www.butchware4gov.com Note: Dr. Ware is currently appealing a legal decision (made after we recorded) that would remove his name from the California ballot. His social media channels will have updates on the status of his appeal 👇 Follow Dr. Ware on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/butchware X: https://x.com/butchware TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@butch.ware Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 00:00 Intro: The extinction burst of American empire 00:58 Introducing Dr. Butch Ware 01:34 The viability of third party politics in California 08:00 The “lesser of two evils” trap 14:53 The corporate power behind both major parties 21:17 The extinction burst of the American empire & what comes next 24:52 What comes after empire? A vision for a care economy 35:39 Why a care economy is better for everyone 39:28 The stock market is not the economy 44:22 War, capitalism and resource extraction 49:37 Investing in wellbeing instead of empire 55:15 The UK Green Party breakthrough 1:01:05 Policy Vision: Healthcare, Housing, and Human Rights 1:10:41 Why Dr. Ware & the Greens can win 1:15:08 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Dr. Butch Ware Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 011. Lots more on the way.

    011 - Dr. Butch Ware on Dismantling the US Empire and the Two-Party System

  7. 16 Mar

    010 - Greg Stoker on Iran, U.S. Imperialism, and Why the Wars Never Stop

    My guest today is Greg Stoker, a former U.S. Army Ranger who has become a prominent anti-imperialist activist, journalist, and geopolitical commentator. In this conversation, we discuss the escalating conflict in Iran and the broader forces driving U.S. military intervention abroad. Greg shares an insider perspective on how soldiers are taught to understand America’s role in the world, the pervasive influence of evangelical Christianity within the military, and the ideological forces behind U.S. foreign policy. Finally, we talk about his run for Congress (TX-31), and what ordinary people can do to challenge imperialism and build a more peaceful and democratic world. Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/ Support Greg’s campaign for Congress: https://www.stokerfortexas.com/ Follow Greg on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/greg.j.stoker/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@greg.j.stoker X: https://x.com/gregjstoker Follow Greg’s podcast Colonial Outcasts: Youtube: https://youtube.com/@colonialoutcasts Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1o0MF5fJM6Wjdhm0vjx4To Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/podcast/2559a4c0-39f4-013e-1c18-0acc26574db2 Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ You can email Michael at michael@betterfuture.media 0:00 This is a war on the working class 1:41 Introducing Greg Stoker 2:39 Why the U.S. & Israel are waging war in Iran 6:08 U.S. capitalist imperialism and wars on the working class 11:49 Why the U.S. needs homelessness 15:32 Debunking justifications for this war in Iran 24:42 The role of radical Christian evangelicalism 29:31 Israel’s role in the “rapture” 33:20 Why evangelical ideology is useful to billionaires 37:36 AI for military targeting 40:50 Pathways toward a better future 46:24 Building coalitions across movements 57:25 Conclusion Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Greg Stoker Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 10. Lots more on the way :)

    010 - Greg Stoker on Iran, U.S. Imperialism, and Why the Wars Never Stop

  8. 12 Feb

    009 - Saikat Chakrabarti on Billionaires, AI, and How to Reclaim Democracy

    My guest today is Saikat Chakrabarti – former chief of staff to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, co-founder of Justice Democrats, co-author of the Green New Deal, and now a candidate for Congress running to replace Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco. We discuss whether the Democratic Party can be transformed from within, why corporate money has hollowed out American politics, and what it would take to build an economy that works for everyone. We also dive deep into AI – who should control it, and why leaving decisions about humanity’s future in the hands of a handful of tech CEOs may be the most dangerous form of deregulation yet. Support Saikat’s campaign for Congress: https://www.saikat.us/ Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/ Follow Saikat on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saikatforcongress TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@saikatforcongress X: https://x.com/saikatc Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/ 0:00 Who controls AI’s future? 0:46 Intro: Saikat Chakrabarti 1:19 Corporate capture in the democratic party 7:03 From tech millionaire to “class traitor” 10:57 Scapegoating immigrants and abolishing ICE 13:48 Reagan’s neoliberal legacy and the case for public investment 22:02 The “March for Billionaires” and wealth inequality 31:33 Building a net zero, high wage economy 42:00 A new foreign policy beyond colonialism 48:43 AI, China, and democratic control of technology 56:46 Replacing corporate Democrats 1:00:16 Cutting funding to Israel 1:02:46 Supporting Saikat Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Saikat Chakarbarti Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea Wadsworth Thanks for watching episode 009. Lots more on the way :)

    009 - Saikat Chakrabarti on Billionaires, AI, and How to Reclaim Democracy
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