Stanford Legal

Stanford Law School

Law touches most aspects of life. Here to help make sense of it is the Stanford Legal podcast, where we look at the cases, questions, conflicts, and legal stories that affect us all every day. Pam Karlan studies and teaches a range of constitutional law-related courses with a special focus on what is known as the “law of democracy,”—the law that regulates voting, elections, and the political process. She served as a commissioner on the California Fair Political Practices Commission, an assistant counsel and cooperating attorney for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, and (twice) as a Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. She also co-directs the Stanford Supreme Court Litigation Clinic, which represents real clients before the highest court in the country, working on important cases including representing Edith Windsor in the landmark case striking down the federal Defense of Marriage Act and Donald Zarda in a case where the Supreme Court held that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 protects LGBT individuals against discrimination in employment. She has argued before the Court ten times. And Rich Ford’s teaching and writing look at the relationship between law and equality, cities and urban development, popular culture and everyday life. He teaches local government law, employment discrimination, and the often-misunderstood critical race theory. He studied with and advised governments around the world on questions of equality law, lectured at places like the Sorbonne in Paris on the relationship of law and popular culture, served as a commissioner for the San Francisco Housing Commission, and worked with cities on how to manage neighborhood change and volatile real estate markets. He writes about law and popular culture for lawyers, academics, and popular audiences. His latest book is Dress Codes: How the Laws of Fashion Made History, a legal history of the rules and laws that influence what we wear. Law matters. We hope you’ll listen to new episodes that will drop on Thursdays every two weeks. To learn more, go to https://law.stanford.edu/stanford-legal-podcast/.

  1. The Case for a Public Share in AI

    14 hrs ago

    The Case for a Public Share in AI

    Artificial intelligence is rapidly reshaping the economy, but two Stanford Law alumni argue that existing tax frameworks are failing to capture—or fairly distribute—the value it generates. Jeremy Bearer-Friend, JD '14, a professor at George Washington University Law School, and Sarah Polcz, JSM '12, JSD '20, a professor at UC Davis School of Law, join co-host Professor Richard Thompson Ford to discuss a proposal that would require leading AI companies to pay a portion of their taxes in equity rather than cash, with those shares placed into a public trust, and their work with U.S. Senate members to make this happen. The conversation explores a central question: If AI was built on vast amounts of human-generated text, images, and creative work, who is entitled to share in the wealth it produces? Bearer-Friend and Polcz connect their proposal to broader concerns about wealth concentration and whether the gains from AI will flow to a narrow class of tech executives and investors—or to the public at large. The episode also examines how an equity-based tax could work in practice, including questions of governance, political insulation, and the mechanics of a sovereign wealth fund, and what it would mean to give the public a direct stake in the companies shaping the future of artificial intelligence. Links: Jeremy Bearer-Friend  >>> GW Law School page Sarah Polcz  >>> UC Davis School of Law page “Sharing the Algorithm: The Tax Solution to Generative AI” >>> Columbia Journal of Tax Law page American AI Wealth Fund Bill >>> PDF “Everyone Wants to Tax A.I. The Big Disagreement: How?” >>> NY Times DealBook page “Don’t laugh off Bernie Sanders’ communist AI-heist attempt — young voters are falling for it” >>> New York Post page Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Rich Ford >>>  Twitter/X Pam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School Page Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X (00:00:00) A Tax Paid in Stock (00:02:14) IP, Inequality, and the AI Boom (00:05:56) Why the Public Deserves an Equity Stake (00:11:58) How the Tax Would Actually Work—Stock, Rates, and Governance (00:16:59) Sanders, Trump, and a Race to Co-opt the Idea (00:21:06) Objections, Safeguards, and the Road Ahead Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    26 min
  2. The Declaration of Independence and Conditions for Democratic Flourishing

    2 days ago

    The Declaration of Independence and Conditions for Democratic Flourishing

    In the opening episode of The Declaration at 250, Michael McConnell introduces former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and historian David Kennedy to ask a deceptively simple question: what does it actually take for democracy to work? Rice argues that the Declaration of Independence marks not the birth of democracy, but the end of tyranny—and that the real work begins afterward. Democracies flourish only when citizens build durable institutions: a workable balance of power among branches, an independent judiciary, and (often most crucially) a vibrant civil society that channels protest into law, governance, and everyday problem-solving. Drawing on her experiences—from segregated Birmingham to global transitions—Rice highlights how democracies fail when executives become unchecked (Russia) or when states are too weak to govern (Afghanistan), and how they can succeed when institutions gain legitimacy over time (Poland, Kenya, and examples shaped by external constraints like the EU). Kennedy responds by tracing the Declaration’s promise of equality as principle, observed condition, aspiration, and enforceable law—while emphasizing the tension between democratic equality and a pluralistic society. He closes with a warning about declining trust in institutions and one another, urging renewed attention to civil society—the practical, local, often unglamorous work that turns founding ideals into lived reality. Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Stanford Constitutional Law Center >> Website Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X Chapters:[00:00:00] Welcome & series launch (Karlan + McConnell) Pam Karlan introduces the special episode; Michael McConnell launches The Declaration at 250 and the project’s guiding question. [00:00:54] Framing the episode: What does democracy need to flourish? McConnell previews the episode’s focus on democratic flourishing, featuring Condoleezza Rice with response from historian David Kennedy. [00:02:04] Rice: The Declaration ends tyranny; democracy is the harder next step Rice argues the Declaration is fundamentally revolutionary—overthrowing the old—raising the problem of how revolutions become democracies. [00:06:05] Rice: America’s conditions, near-failures, and why separation of powers matters Rice describes the U.S. “luck,” the near-collapse under the Articles and the Civil War, and the Constitution’s durability through distributed power. [00:11:37] Rice: Civil rights, law, and a “second founding” (1964–65) Drawing on personal experience and movement strategy, Rice emphasizes institutional change—litigation, amendments, and landmark legislation—as democracy’s engine. [00:20:00] Rice: Institutions vs. culture—lessons from Russia, Afghanistan, Tunisia, Poland, Kenya, Hungary Rice rejects “DNA for democracy” explanations and shows how executive strength, civil society, and institutional legitimacy shape success or failure. [00:32:33] Kennedy: Equality’s evolving meaning—and the civil society trust crisis Kennedy traces equality from Jefferson to the 14th Amendment and warns that declining trust and civic know-how signal weakening civil society. [00:42:52] Kennedy’s question: “Spirit of constitutionalism,” plus depersonalization (social media/suburbanization) Rice defines constitutionalism as lived civic practice beyond paper rights; both discuss forces eroding community and shared institutions before closing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    52 min
  3. Inside the Trump Administration's Immigration Agenda

    11 June

    Inside the Trump Administration's Immigration Agenda

    The birthright citizenship case and immigration raids have drawn headlines and national attention, but Lucas Guttentag, who teaches immigration law at Stanford and Yale law schools, says some of the Trump administration’s most consequential immigration changes are unfolding with far less public scrutiny. Guttentag, one of the nation’s leading immigration law experts and founder of the ACLU Immigrants’ Rights Project, joins host Professor Pamela Karlan for a wide-ranging conversation about current American immigration policies. Guttentag discusses his time in the Biden administration and compares policies in the first Trump administration with those of the second. He also focuses on the Immigration Policy Tracking Project, an effort he launched in 2017 with law students to document every Trump administration immigration policy, implementation memo, directive, and related legal challenge. The tracker, he explains, is designed to make visible what can otherwise be hard to see: hundreds of policy changes that, taken together, are reshaping the immigration system. The episode examines what these changes mean for immigration courts, bond hearings, temporary protected status, green card applications, and the lawyers challenging the administration in court. One of Guttentag’s central points is that immigration is a civil system, not a criminal one, and the distinction matters for anyone trying to understand what is happening now. Links: Lucas Guttentag >>> Stanford Law School page Immigration Policy Tracking Project >>> IPTP page Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Rich Ford >>>  Twitter/X Pam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School Page Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X (00:00:00) The Immigration Policy Tracking Project (00:07:33) The Dismantling of the Immigration Court System (00:12:15) "Public Spectacle and Private Terror" — Tactics of Fear  (00:17:32) Asylum, TPS, and the Racial Undercurrent (00:21:51) The Courts Push Back  (00:29:22) What a Rebuilt Immigration System Would Look Like  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    33 min
  4. The Law Must Be King

    28 May

    The Law Must Be King

    In this special episode, recorded at the Neukom Center's Rule of Law Speaker Series, Judge J. Michael Luttig, former Fourth Circuit judge and ex-General Counsel of Boeing,  discusses a looming constitutional crises facing the United States. Drawing on Lincoln, Paine, and Churchill, Judge Luttig argues that the Trump administration's actions represent not the exploitation of constitutional vulnerabilities, but unconstitutional conduct that federal courts have repeatedly struck down. He expresses particular alarm over the Supreme Court's use of the shadow docket to stay lower court decisions without briefing, argument, or written reasoning — a practice he characterizes as a crisis within the Court itself. Judge Luttig also addresses the DOJ's institutional corruption, Congress's abdication of war powers and tariff authority, and the Supreme Court's sweeping immunity ruling in Trump v. United States. Throughout, he challenges law students to treat their professional oath as a solemn civic obligation in a moment of national testing. Links: Honorable J. Michael Luttig >>> Federal Judicial Center page Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Rich Ford >>>  Twitter/X Pam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School Page Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X (00:00) America at 250—A Nation Under Assault from Within (14:00) The Legal Profession as Guardian of the Constitution  (20:30) Unconstitutional by Design—The Trump Administration's Legal Record (28:00) The Corruption of the DOJ (36:00) Congress, the War Power, and the Collapse of Separation of Powers (42:30) The Supreme Court, the Shadow Docket, and Presidential Immunity  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    56 min
  5. When Government Lawyers Draw the Line

    14 May

    When Government Lawyers Draw the Line

    Former Department of Justice pardon attorney Liz Oyer describes being pulled out of a meeting, told to pack up her belongings, and walked out by security the same day. Her offense, she said, was refusing to recommend that the attorney general restore gun rights to a politically connected celebrity without the information she believed was necessary to make that judgment safely. “Once you compromise your integrity, you cannot get it back,” she said. That moment sets the tone for a candid conversation about what it means to serve inside the Department of Justice, and what happens when career lawyers believe the institution they devoted themselves to has changed. Moderated by Stanford Law professor Pam Karlan, this episode brings together Oyer, former Assistant U.S. Attorney Greg Rosen, and former DOJ civil rights lawyer Stacey Young for a discussion of public service, prosecutorial independence, clemency, civil rights, professional ethics, and the difficult questions of when to stay, when to leave, and when to speak out. The panel, recorded at a live law school event and presented by the Deborah L. Rhode Center on the Legal Profession and the Neukom Center for the Rule of Law, offers a close look at the professional obligations of government lawyers from people who spent years doing the work: Rosen supervising more than 1,000 prosecutions stemming from January 6; Oyer overseeing the federal pardon process and thousands of clemency petitions; and Young working in the Civil Rights Division while also founding the DOJ Gender Equality Network. Karlan, herself a former DOJ official, draws out the deeper questions behind their stories. Links: Former DOJ Lawyers Discuss Duty, Integrity, and Public Service During Stanford Law Panel >>> Stanford Law page Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Rich Ford >>>  Twitter/X Pam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School Page Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X (00:00:00) Introductions and what drew each panelist to DOJ (00:08:24) Loyalty inside the institution (00:11:19) January 6th pardons: impact on prosecutors and lack of vetting (00:32:04) Liz Oyer's firing over the Mel Gibson gun-rights recommendation (00:43:23) The "stay or go" dilemma and the bifurcated job market (00:47:15) Rebuilding DOJ: norms vs. enforceable laws and the communications problem [00:57:00) Student Q&A: red lines, accountability, and the Epstein files Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    1hr 4min
  6. Voting Rights at a Turning Point

    7 May

    Voting Rights at a Turning Point

    In the wake of the Supreme Court’s recent decision in Louisiana v. Callais, two of the nation’s leading election law scholars dissect a ruling that could soon reverberate through elections at every level of government. Nathaniel Persily joins Pam Karlan for a discussion about the Callais decision—what it means for racial representation, partisan gerrymandering, and anti-discrimination law. Karlan and Persily are longtime collaborators, including as co-authors of The Law of Democracy: Legal Structure of the Political Process. Their conversation traces the Voting Rights Act’s evolution from the landmark Thornburg v. Gingles decision to the Court’s latest narrowing of Section 2, and examines how the ruling could affect congressional maps in 2026, minority representation at every level of government, and the broader future of disparate impact protections. As Persily explains, the Court has moved from treating partisan gerrymandering as constitutionally suspect to a place where it is now “a legitimate state practice, a legitimate interest that’s almost being celebrated.”   Links: Nate Persily >>> Stanford Law School Page Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Rich Ford >>>  Twitter/X Pam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School Page Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X [00:00:30] Introduction: The Voting Rights Act Under Siege [00:02:18] Section 2's Original Promise: Results Over Intent [00:11:06] Louisiana v. Cali: Dismantling the Gingles Framework [00:23:17] From Unconstitutional to Celebrated: The Partisan Gerrymandering Evolution [00:28:14] Future Implications: Elections and Civil Rights Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    35 min
  7. Who Gets to Vote?

    30 Apr

    Who Gets to Vote?

    Sophia Lin Lakin, JD ’11 (MS ’04, BA ’02), director of the ACLU’s Voting Rights Project, challenges the stated premises behind many current voting restrictions, including claims about widespread non-citizen voting. “If we’re worried about the integrity of our elections,” she tells Stanford Law professor and host Pam Karlan, “we should be worried about making sure that more people are participating in our elections and not chasing a fantasy.” That concern—how long-standing efforts to restrict voting access can make it harder for eligible voters to participate—runs through the episode, which was recorded shortly before the Supreme Court handed down its decision in Louisiana v. Callais. In a 6–3 ruling, the Court struck down Louisiana’s congressional map, which had created a second majority-Black district, holding that the map was an unconstitutional racial gerrymander. The decision could make it harder to use Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act to challenge maps that dilute minority voting strength. Lakin and Karlan discuss what is at stake when access to the ballot becomes harder and the rules for translating votes into political power begin to shift. Their conversation focuses on proof-of-citizenship requirements, mail ballots, voter roll purges, and redistricting battles, offering a timely look at the legal fights shaping who can vote, whose ballots count, and whether communities can elect representatives of their choice.   Links: Sophia Lin Lakin >>> ACLU page Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Rich Ford >>>  Twitter/X Pam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School Page Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X (00:00:00) The Three Buckets of Voting Rights  (00:02:35) Voter Roll Surveillance  (00:06:17) The Non-Citizen Voting Myth and the Dangers of Faulty Databases  (00:10:23) Citizenship Documentation Requirements  (00:16:19) Mail Voting Rules and the Materiality Provision  (00:21:00) Section Two of the Voting Rights Act and Redistricting Battles  (00:28:51) Race, Politics, and the Future of Fair Maps  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    34 min

About

Law touches most aspects of life. Here to help make sense of it is the Stanford Legal podcast, where we look at the cases, questions, conflicts, and legal stories that affect us all every day. Pam Karlan studies and teaches a range of constitutional law-related courses with a special focus on what is known as the “law of democracy,”—the law that regulates voting, elections, and the political process. She served as a commissioner on the California Fair Political Practices Commission, an assistant counsel and cooperating attorney for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, and (twice) as a Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. She also co-directs the Stanford Supreme Court Litigation Clinic, which represents real clients before the highest court in the country, working on important cases including representing Edith Windsor in the landmark case striking down the federal Defense of Marriage Act and Donald Zarda in a case where the Supreme Court held that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 protects LGBT individuals against discrimination in employment. She has argued before the Court ten times. And Rich Ford’s teaching and writing look at the relationship between law and equality, cities and urban development, popular culture and everyday life. He teaches local government law, employment discrimination, and the often-misunderstood critical race theory. He studied with and advised governments around the world on questions of equality law, lectured at places like the Sorbonne in Paris on the relationship of law and popular culture, served as a commissioner for the San Francisco Housing Commission, and worked with cities on how to manage neighborhood change and volatile real estate markets. He writes about law and popular culture for lawyers, academics, and popular audiences. His latest book is Dress Codes: How the Laws of Fashion Made History, a legal history of the rules and laws that influence what we wear. Law matters. We hope you’ll listen to new episodes that will drop on Thursdays every two weeks. To learn more, go to https://law.stanford.edu/stanford-legal-podcast/.

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