More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School

Laura Pitt & Dan Steele
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More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is an Australian podcast hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, experienced educators and coaches from the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria. Every fortnight, we share open and honest conversations about school, ATAR pressure, pathways, learning differences, parenting teens, career changes and what success can look like beyond the school gates. Our guests — from leaders, parents and educators to athletes, entrepreneurs and creatives — take us through what school was really like for them, the choices, changes and skills that came next, and the things they learned along the way. Because real pathways are rarely straight. If you're a parent wondering what comes next for your young person, worried they don't have a clear plan, navigating subject choices, results, learning differences or a change in direction (or simply trying to support them without adding more pressure) this podcast is for you. You'll hear stories that challenge the idea that there is one right pathway and discover perspectives you can take back into the conversations happening for you in your own home. Our message is simple: • No score can sum you up. • There is no one right path. • And no one wants to peak in high school. Want something practical to try at home? Join One Small Shift, our free fortnightly note for parents. Each edition gives you one simple, practical shift you can try with your young person to reduce pressure, open better conversations and help them find their own way. Find One Small Shift, Pathways Coaching and more at muchmorethanascore.com. New episodes every fortnight. Hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele.

  1. 7 Sept

    From School Refuser to Award-Winning Author: Brendan James Murray on Why the Score Isn't the Point

    What if a score that's higher than you hoped for could actually work against you? This episode is for any parent, or any young person, who has ever felt boxed in by a number, or quietly written off at school, and it's a reminder that being good at school and being set up for a good life are not the same thing. In this episode of More Than a Score, we sit down with Brendan James Murray: award-winning author of four books, high-school English teacher, and dad of two. Brendan's story starts somewhere surprising. He spent almost a year as a "school refuser" in grade four, an anxiety he wouldn't understand for decades, and was the kind of quiet kid who can drift out of a teacher's thinking entirely. He leaned into reading and writing because that's where he felt capable, and ended up with a score far higher than he expected. But that number brought its own pressure. Feeling he had to "spend it in the right way," he chose a science degree that matched the score rather than his passion, and dropped out within weeks. What followed was a slower, truer path: studying writing because he loved it, moving into teaching, and eventually publishing The Drowned Man, which won the Ned Kelly Award for Best True Crime. Now, as both a teacher handing out scores and an author writing against them, he sits on every side of the scoreboard at once. For parents, it's a warm, honest conversation about not writing kids off, resisting the urge to steer them by prestige, and asking what a good life actually looks like. For young people, it's proof that a quiet start, or a wrong turn, doesn't decide where you end up. What you'll discover in this episode • Why a score higher than expected can feel like a trap rather than a win • The idea of an ATAR as "currency" you feel obliged to spend, and where that leads • Why a former "school refuser" can still be a capable, successful student, and what that should teach us • How the quiet kids drift below the radar, and why that's worth resisting • The difference between choosing subjects for prestige, for a career, or because your friends are • Why Brendan believes universities, not schools, should carry more of the admissions burden • What he wishes parents knew about subject selection and the "you'll need maths later" myth • Why imagination vanishes from the curriculum after grade two, and how to keep it alive at home • The role of empathy and discipline in both great teaching and great writing • Why the craft of writing still matters in the age of AI, and the difference between imagining and generating More Than a Score is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former secondary teacher and a former award-winning assistant principal, on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, with over 35 years in education between them. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe at muchmorethanascore.com or your chosen podcast platform. . Enjoyed this conversation? Join One Small Shift, our free fortnightly note for parents. Each edition gives you one simple, practical shift you can try with your young person to reduce pressure, open better conversations and help them find their own way. Find One Small Shift, Pathways Coaching and more at muchmorethanascore.com

    From School Refuser to Award-Winning Author: Brendan James Murray on Why the Score Isn't the Point

  2. 24 Aug

    From Chartered Accountant to Doula: Felicity Pountney on Why Your Score Isn't Your Destiny

    What happens when your child gets a near-perfect score and still feels stuck? This episode is for any parent, or any young person, who is high-achieving but uncertain, and it is a reminder that a great score is a starting point, not a life sentence. In this episode of More Than a Score, we sit down with Felicity “Flick” Pountney: former chartered accountant, prenatal yoga and hypnobirthing educator, birth doula, adventurer, and mum of three. Flick left an academic all-girls school in Melbourne with a score around 95, and was still disappointed. She had fallen just short of the double degree she had set her heart on, and had absorbed a powerful belief that she needed to use the score to its full potential. So she chose commerce, a path she admits she did not fully understand or love, went on to a graduate program at PricewaterhouseCoopers, qualified as a chartered accountant, and spent years at Sony PlayStation’s London head office. The work opened doors, and the travel and the people were the real prize. But a quiet question kept surfacing: is this actually me? That question came to a head when she fell pregnant, and a chance meeting with a prenatal yoga teacher cracked something open. What followed was a complete reinvention, from corporate finance to heart-led work supporting women through pregnancy and birth. For parents, it is a generous, honest look at how the pressure to match your score can quietly steer a young person away from what they actually love. For young people, it is proof that the winding path is not a wasted one, and that no single result defines where you end up. What you’ll discover in this episode • Why a score of 95 can still leave a young person feeling like they have fallen short • The trap of treating your ATAR as “currency” you are obliged to spend • How choosing subjects for the score, not for passion, can lead to real regret • Why non-examples, the things that do not fit, are as useful as the things that do • Flick’s “checklist of three” for weighing up whether a job is worth staying in • How overseas experience revealed that a score means very little once you leave the system • Why the biggest career changes tend to come from conversations, not courses • How to spot the transferable skills a “wrong” path quietly builds • A practical first step for anyone who knows they need a change but feels scared to make it • Why there is no failure in “no man’s land,” and how progress beats a tidy definition of success More Than a Score is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former secondary teacher and a former award-winning assistant principal, on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, with over 35 years in education between them. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe and follow the show to hear each new conversation as it lands at muchmorethanascore.com. Enjoyed this conversation? Join One Small Shift, our free fortnightly note for parents. Each edition gives you one simple, practical shift you can try with your young person to reduce pressure, open better conversations and help them find their own way. Find One Small Shift, Pathways Coaching and more at muchmorethanascore.com

    From Chartered Accountant to Doula: Felicity Pountney on Why Your Score Isn't Your Destiny

  3. 9 Aug

    From Carpenter to General Manager: Lyle House on Building Your Own Path

    What if the pressure your teenager feels to have their whole life mapped out by Year 12 is the very thing holding them back? In this episode of More Than a Score, we sit down with Lyle House, General Manager of Enchanted Adventure, former carpenter and builder, lifelong cricketer and captain, and dad of two, whose path from school to leadership took just about every turn a path can take. If you are a parent watching a son or daughter who is not lit up by school, this conversation is for you. Lyle left school in 2002 knowing university was not his path, and nobody at home made him feel that was a problem. His mum, who worked for a builder at the time, did not push him in any direction. She simply backed what he chose and quietly put real opportunities in his way, including a house build he could learn from and a property development he could manage. It is a gentle, honest picture of what supportive parenting actually looks like when a child is heading somewhere other than the university everyone assumes. From there, Lyle's path bent again and again. He became a carpenter, then a commercial building supervisor, then ran his own building company through what he calls a five year slog. He studied hard for his full builder's licence and failed the exam, and that failure, of all things, became the doorway to what came next. Years later, through a chance conversation at the gym, he moved into tourism with no industry background at all, and worked his way up to general manager. The thing that unlocked it was not a new qualification. It was finally recognising the skills he already had. For parents, this is a reassuring and practical listen. Lyle talks plainly about redefining success away from money and trophies, about why he considers teams that never won a premiership genuinely successful, about feedback that lands because it is delivered with respect, and about the quiet courage it takes to admit that the thing you built your identity around is no longer for you. He offers something every anxious parent needs to hear, which is that what your child does tomorrow is not what they have to do for the rest of their life. What you'll discover in this episode - Why a young person who is not academic is not a young person who is falling behind - What genuinely supportive parenting looked like for Lyle, and why his mum never pushed - How to help a teenager recognise the transferable skills they already have - Why failing the builder's licence exam turned out to be the best thing for his career - How the biggest career changes tend to come through people and conversations, not plans - Why talking openly about feeling stuck is what lets new opportunities find you - How to give feedback to a young person so it actually lands, without damaging the relationship - What Lyle believes real success looks like, after losing more grand finals than most people play - The one message he would give his Year 12 self, and every teenager feeling the pressure now - Why having something to fall back on and staying open are not opposites Whether your child is heading for a trade, a gap year, university, or has no idea yet, this episode is a warm reminder that there is no one right path, and that the winding ones are far more common, and far more hopeful, than they are made to seem. More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former teacher and award-winning assistant leader, on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe to follow along here or at muchmorethanascore.com Enjoyed this conversation? Join One Small Shift, our free fortnightly note for parents. Each edition gives you one simple, practical shift you can try with your young person to reduce pressure, open better conversations and help them find their own way. Find One Small Shift, Pathways Coaching and more at muchmorethanascore.com

    From Carpenter to General Manager: Lyle House on Building Your Own Path

  4. 27 July

    My Child Isn't Doing Well at School. What Should I Do? | with Adam Hipwell

    What if the most important thing your child needs isn't a higher score, but someone who truly sees them? Adam Hipwell knows what it feels like to believe school just isn't for you. After leaving Year 12 disappointed with a score that didn't reflect what he was capable of, Adam made the courageous decision to repeat his final year. Looking back, it wasn't simply a higher score that changed his future. It was finding a school community where he felt seen, supported and challenged to believe in himself. Today, Adam is a teacher, educational leader, instructional coach, father of two and musician. Every day, he works alongside teachers to create the kind of classrooms he once needed as a teenager. Places where relationships come before results and young people are encouraged to grow, not simply perform. In this thoughtful and deeply practical conversation, Adam shares what helped him move from feeling unseen to helping others belong, why repeating Year 12 became one of the best decisions he ever made, and how parents can focus less on outcomes and more on the habits, relationships and mindset that set young people up for life. Whether you're raising a child navigating school, supporting a teenager through exams, or simply wondering how to encourage confidence without adding pressure, this episode is full of reassurance, perspective and practical wisdom. Because your child's future is never defined by one score. It is shaped by the people who believe in them along the way. What You'll Discover: • Why Adam chose to repeat Year 12 and how that decision changed the direction of his life. • The surprising difference one supportive school community can make in a young person's confidence, wellbeing and achievement. • Why feeling seen is one of the most powerful ingredients for helping children thrive. • How the combination of high support and high challenge helps young people build confidence and resilience. • Why effort, growth and relationships matter far more than chasing perfect grades. • Practical ways parents can help their children navigate setbacks and build confidence when things don't go to plan. • Why a school result is simply a snapshot in time, not a measure of your child's potential. • Adam's powerful concept of replacing a traditional to do list with a to be list to define success by the person you're becoming, not just the achievements you're collecting. • Lessons from Adam's experiences as a teacher, educational leader and father that every parent can apply at home. More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former teacher and award-winning assistant leader, on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe to follow along here or at muchmorethanascore.com

    My Child Isn't Doing Well at School. What Should I Do? | with Adam Hipwell

  5. 12 July

    From Boost Juice to Her Own PR Agency: Odette Barry on Self Doubt & Using Your Gifts

    What if the thing your child keeps getting in trouble for at school is the exact gift that will carry them through life? In this episode of More Than a Score, we sit down with Odette Barry, PR and media relations founder, community builder, and a self-described former professional nightmare. Odette grew up in an affluent Melbourne community with two high-achieving older sisters and parents who valued education above almost everything and invested dearly for hers. She struggled with authority, could not sit still, and collected report cards that told her, year after year, that she was failing. She left school with an ATAR score of around 56 and a core belief that she had let everyone down. What came next was anything but a straight line. Odette found her first real sense of worth blending drinks at Boost Juice, where the noise, the systems and the fun finally fit the way her brain worked. She married at twenty-one, became a mum at twenty-two, worked at Westpac while raising her son, ran a fashion side-business, and started university for the first time at twenty-six after one encouraging boss told her she could. Today she runs Odette and Co, a Byron Bay agency helping not-for-profits and social change makers challenge the status quo, the very skill school kept trying to stamp out of her. This conversation explores non-linear career paths, using your unique gifts, ADHD and the way different brains learn, self-doubt and confidence, self-compassion, and what it takes to parent a child who is nothing like you. Odette is honest that the damage school did was real and lasting, and just as honest about what turned it around: being seen by the right people, being given agency, and slowly learning to trust herself. For parents, it is a reminder that the kid who questions everything is not a problem to fix. For students, it is proof that a low score is a moment, not a measure of who you are. And for anyone staring down a changing job market and the rise of AI, Odette offers a clear-eyed, generous view of the human skills that will always matter. In this episode, you'll discover: • Why the traits school punished, challenging authority and questioning everything, became the core of Odette's career • How report cards that said "failed" hardened into a core belief, and how long it took to undo • Why Boost Juice, not school, was the first place she felt she had real value • How a mentor named Steve Browning changed her path just by listening and telling her she could do more • The reframe from her mother-in-law about a "neurological rewiring" that lifted years of guilt • How she rebuilt her confidence, and why she still calls the confident version of herself a mask • Why being a young mum was the best decision she ever made, despite the judgement • The three ideas that shaped how she parents a son who is nothing like her • Why she now sees learning outside the classroom as a genuine life force • What she looks for when she hires young people, and the story of the candidate who would not take no • An honest, practical message for parents about helping kids into the workforce in the age of AI More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former teacher and award-winning assistant leader, on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe to follow along here or at muchmorethanascore.com

    From Boost Juice to Her Own PR Agency: Odette Barry on Self Doubt & Using Your Gifts

  6. 1 July

    From a Low Score to a Thriving Career: Manny Kechayas on his Path to Pevan & Sarah

    What if not knowing your path is not a problem to fix, but the very thing that builds a creative and resilient life? In this episode of More Than a Score, we sit down with Manny Kechayas, musician, former teacher, self-taught video producer, and co-creator of the highly successful Australian children's entertainment group act Pevan & Sarah. Manny spent most of school waiting for a lightbulb moment that never came. He was the quiet kid who flew under the radar, poured himself into drumming, and left school with a score he was embarrassed by and no obvious next step. What followed was anything but a straight line. Manny auditioned into the Victorian College of the Arts, taught instrumental and classroom music, completed a Masters, and slowly built a children's music business almost by accident, beginning with songs his partner Sarah needed for her own classroom. After years of underpaid gigs, including a now infamous concert played to nobody, the breakthrough came from a graph showing classrooms watching their videos during school hours. They launched the subscription platform Cub Club just before the pandemic, and the work they had quietly prepared took off while the rest of the live arts industry fell silent. This conversation explores non-linear career paths, creativity, self-directed learning, and what success looks like in a world without a playbook. Manny makes a surprising case that restriction is the spark of creativity rather than the enemy of it, and offers parents a clear, practical message about letting young people be bored, giving them agency, and not being afraid to let them fail. For parents, it is reassurance that a child without a clear plan is not a child who is behind. For students, it is proof that the slow, winding road can lead somewhere genuinely good. And for anyone navigating a changing job market and the rise of AI, Manny offers a grounded perspective on the human skills that will always matter. • Why Manny left school with a low score and no clear career path, and how he sees it now • What it means to wait for a lightbulb moment that never comes, and why that is okay • How restriction and limits can fuel creativity rather than block it • Why boredom is the beginning of invention, not a problem for parents to solve • The case for letting young people make low-stakes mistakes while the cost is small • How Manny taught himself music production and video editing from scratch • The story behind Pevan & Sarah and the Cub Club learning platform • How they found their audience by reading their own analytics • What success looks like when the job you do did not exist a generation ago • Why interpersonal skills and resilience outlast any single test result • A reassuring message for parents whose child does not yet have a plan More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former teacher and award-winning school leader on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe to follow along.

    From a Low Score to a Thriving Career: Manny Kechayas on his Path to Pevan & Sarah

  7. 21 June

    I Did Everything Right and Still Got Rejected: Sarah Kechayas on the Long Way Round to Pevan & Sarah

    What happens when your child does everything right and still hits a wall? For any parent of a driven, high-achieving young person, Sarah Kechayas' (co-founder of Pevan & Sarah) story is both honest and reassuring. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Sarah is a musician, performer and co-founder, with her partner Manny Kechayas, of the much-loved children's kids entertainment group Pevan & Sarah. (Now found on ABC iView!). Sarah left a specialist music school as a high achiever who had cleaned up at her Year 12 awards and been told all her life that she could be whatever she wanted. Then she auditioned for every major performing arts course in the country and got into none of them. At seventeen, having done everything she'd been told would lead to her dream, it felt like a rude awakening. But Sarah didn't stop. She took a music certificate at the Adelaide Conservatorium, kept performing, kept making connections, and eventually completed a Bachelor of Music, only to discover how little a degree alone guarantees in the arts. From there, her path wound through instrumental teaching, running children's parties, integration aide work, special needs teaching, and years in the classroom. None of it looked linear, but all of it tied together: teaching, music and the work with kids combined into Pevan & Sarah, a national brand and company she and Manny took full-time in 2021, and which now reaches children right across the country. We talk about the teachers who championed her, the rejection that taught her what awards never could, the trap of measuring yourself against a single path, and her honest reflections on ambition that never quite feels satisfied. Her advice for any young person who feels behind is simple: keep your passion, but diversify, take the blinkers off, and stay open to possibilities you can't yet see. If your child is comparing themselves to a tidier path, this conversation is a reminder that no score or rejection defines where they can end up. This is part one, so after you listen to this, tune into Part two, where the conversation continues with her co-founder Manny Kechayas. What You'll Discover: • Why doing everything right still doesn't guarantee the outcome you planned (and why that's not a failure). • What a wall of audition rejections taught Sarah that awards and accolades never could. • How a "long and messy" path through teaching, music and work with kids quietly built the foundation for a national brand. • Why a Bachelor of Music, or any degree, is a starting point rather than a guarantee, and how that realisation reshaped her thinking. • How Sarah and Manny knew it was time to take Pevan & Sarah full-time, and the leap of faith behind it. • Sarah's honest reflection on ambition that never feels satisfied, and what she's learning about pausing to celebrate. • Practical advice for any young person who feels behind: keep the passion, diversify your toolkit, and take the blinkers off. More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former teacher and award-winning school leader on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe to follow along.

    I Did Everything Right and Still Got Rejected: Sarah Kechayas on the Long Way Round to Pevan & Sarah

  8. 15 June

    From School Struggles to CEO: Steve Younane on Strengths, Confidence and Leadership

    What if success has less to do with having a perfect plan and more to do with understanding your strengths? In this episode of More Than a Score, we sit down with Steve Younane: a business leader, CEO, musician, father, and someone whose pathway from school to leadership was far from predictable. Growing up as one of seven children in a family that deeply valued education, Steve felt the pressure that comes with looking up to high-achieving siblings and wondering whether you could ever measure up. At school, he wasn't driven by academic excellence. He openly shares how he struggled to focus, often felt distracted, and saw studying primarily as a way to get a score that would help him move on to the next stage. What he didn't realise at the time was that many of the strengths that would shape his future were already emerging. Through music, sport, leadership opportunities, and building relationships, Steve was developing skills that couldn't always be measured by tests or report cards. From forming a school band and leading teams to eventually leading major organisations and global brands, Steve's story is a powerful reminder that success rarely follows a straight line. This conversation explores comparison, confidence, self-awareness, leadership, and the importance of recognising that people contribute in different ways. For parents, it's a reminder that a child's future isn't determined by how motivated they are by school alone. For young people, it's reassurance that not having everything figured out doesn't mean you're falling behind. And for anyone navigating uncertainty, Steve offers a thoughtful perspective on finding your strengths, backing yourself, and building a meaningful life and career. What You'll Discover • What it was like growing up as one of seven children in a high-achieving family • Why Steve often felt distracted and disconnected from traditional study • The pressure of comparing yourself to siblings and peers • How music became one of the first places he discovered confidence and purpose • Why leadership often appears before we recognise it ourselves • The surprising lessons Steve learned from forming a band and leading teams • How strengths developed outside the classroom shaped his future success • The role self-awareness has played throughout his career and leadership journey • Why different people bring different strengths to teams • What Steve wishes young people understood about success and career pathways Recorded at Sabre Sound Studio A special thanks to the team at Sabre Sound Studio for hosting this conversation and providing a fantastic space for meaningful conversations like this one. If you're looking for a professional podcast, audio, or creative recording space, be sure to check them out. More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, a former teacher and award-winning school leader on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria. New episodes fortnightly. Subscribe to follow along.

    From School Struggles to CEO: Steve Younane on Strengths, Confidence and Leadership
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Ratings & Reviews

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About

More Than a Score: Redefining Success Beyond School is an Australian podcast hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele, experienced educators and coaches from the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria. Every fortnight, we share open and honest conversations about school, ATAR pressure, pathways, learning differences, parenting teens, career changes and what success can look like beyond the school gates. Our guests — from leaders, parents and educators to athletes, entrepreneurs and creatives — take us through what school was really like for them, the choices, changes and skills that came next, and the things they learned along the way. Because real pathways are rarely straight. If you're a parent wondering what comes next for your young person, worried they don't have a clear plan, navigating subject choices, results, learning differences or a change in direction (or simply trying to support them without adding more pressure) this podcast is for you. You'll hear stories that challenge the idea that there is one right pathway and discover perspectives you can take back into the conversations happening for you in your own home. Our message is simple: • No score can sum you up. • There is no one right path. • And no one wants to peak in high school. Want something practical to try at home? Join One Small Shift, our free fortnightly note for parents. Each edition gives you one simple, practical shift you can try with your young person to reduce pressure, open better conversations and help them find their own way. Find One Small Shift, Pathways Coaching and more at muchmorethanascore.com. New episodes every fortnight. Hosted by Laura Pitt and Dan Steele.

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