Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/a2hceZhcfJ Click and Conquer: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3267900/Click_and_Conquer/ Mining and Dwarves: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3987230/Mining_and_Dwarves/ Can an indie game succeed on Steam without 7,000 wishlists? Stefan, the developer of Click and Conquer and co-developer of Mining and Dwarves, did exactly that. Click and Conquer launched with only around 2,600 Steam wishlists and went on to sell more than 60,000 copies in a little over a year. In this episode of the Dev Dream Podcast, Blake Gocey talks with Stefan about how Click and Conquer succeeded despite its low wishlist count, the 300-hour game development experiment behind the project, and what he learned from making a commercially successful indie game in roughly 300 hours of development time. Stefan explains why he now thinks of Steam wishlists more as validation than a guaranteed predictor of success, how Click and Conquer was priced and marketed, why a 40% launch discount made sense for their situation, and what role YouTube creators and Reddit played in the game's launch. We also discuss the philosophy behind making small indie games quickly. After spending roughly three years developing his first game, Barricade, Stefan changed his approach dramatically for Click and Conquer. His goal became reducing scope, reducing financial risk, making faster decisions, using existing asset packs, and avoiding unnecessary perfectionism. The conversation then turns to Mining and Dwarves, Stefan and Thornity's newest incremental game. Unlike Click and Conquer, Mining and Dwarves has taken much longer to develop. Stefan explains why trying to create something more original without a clear "North Star" dramatically increased development time, why they removed or redesigned numerous mechanics, how NPCs complicated development, and why the game avoids a traditional prestige system. We also discuss the current state of incremental games on Steam. Are incremental games becoming oversaturated? Are YouTubers and content creators getting tired of covering them? What even qualifies as an incremental game anymore? Stefan shares why he believes the genre is becoming more competitive, how incremental mechanics are spreading into genres like tower defense and roguelites, and why strong games can still stand out. Finally, Stefan explains why he plans to return to the 300-hour development model for his next game — and why he may keep that game's idea secret until much closer to release because of concerns about oversaturation, AI-assisted development, and other developers beating promising concepts to market. Topics include: • Click and Conquer sales and Steam launch• Launching with 2,600 Steam wishlists• The 7,000 wishlist rule• The 300-hour game development challenge• Making small indie games• Steam wishlist conversion• Indie game pricing and launch discounts• Marketing indie games on YouTube and Reddit• Reducing scope and development risk• Using asset packs for indie games• Mining and Dwarves development• Designing incremental and idle games• NPC systems and game design• Prestige mechanics in incremental games• Incremental game saturation on Steam• Marketing games to content creators• AI and indie game development• Protecting game ideas• Becoming a full-time indie developer Dev Dream Podcast is a game development podcast hosted by Blake Gocey featuring conversations with indie game developers about making games, launching on Steam, game marketing, commercial indie development, and the journey toward becoming a full-time game developer.
