Unchained

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Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world.

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    Uneasy Money: Why Peter Steinberger and Non-Crypto People Hate the Crypto Mob

    LayerZero’s Bryan Pellegrino joins to unpack Base's decision to leave the OP Stack, Zora's migration to Solana and more. Thank you to our sponsors! ⁠Fuse: The Energy Network – Shift your energy use and earn rewards. ⁠MultiChain Advisors -⁠ The Growth & Capital Markets Partner You Need Coinbase's Base is making a shock move away from Optimism's OP Stack. In this Uneasy Money episode, LayerZero Labs CEO Bryan Pellegrino joins hosts Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to unpack whether this is the right move for Base and what it could mean for Optimism. Beyond Base's big move, the trio also discuss Zora's Solana migration, whether Coinbase was wrong to initially pursue a super app strategy with Base App, Peter Steinberger joining OpenAI, the launch of Zero blockchain and OpenAI's EVMbench. Will OpenAI's acqui-hiring of Peter prove to be a “generational fumble” for Anthropic? And can crypto fix its brand problem? Also, learn why the rise of AI agents have Kain and Tay confident that open source will win in the end. Hosts: ⁠Kain Warwick⁠, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix ⁠Taylor Monahan⁠, Security Expert Guest: Bryan Pellegrino, CEO of LayerZero Labs Links: Unchained: Zora Shocks Base Community With Solana Pivot ⁠⁠BlackRock Just Chose Uniswap. The Market Didn’t Care. Here’s Why. ⁠⁠LayerZero Launches ‘Zero’ Layer 1 as Citadel, ARK Buy ZRO ⁠⁠How Zero Blockchain Cracked 2 Million TPS and Is Still Decentralized ⁠⁠Uneasy Money: Are Institutions Creating a New Crypto Meta? ⁠⁠Uneasy Money: How the Increasingly Better AI Agents Are Being Used OnchainVitalik Rethinks Ethereum’s L2 Playbook, Calls for Shift Toward Native Rollups Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    1 h 24 min
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    Stani Kulechov on Why Aave Labs Is Putting Itself at the Mercy of the DAO

    Stani Kulechov unpacks Aave Labs’ “Aave Will Win” proposal, explaining why the company wants the DAO to have power over its finances. Thank you to our sponsors! Adaptive Security Aave Labs has proposed a “Aave Will Win” framework that will direct all revenue to the DAO to bring the protocol under “a token-centric model.” In this episode, Aave founder Stani Kulechov explains why Aave Labs is putting its funding at the mercy of the DAO and how the framework could drive DeFi innovation. Plus wen Aave v4? And is Aave Labs’ requested budget too much? Guest: Stani Kulechov, Founder of Aave Labs Previous appearances on Unchained: Why Aave's Founder Is 'More Bullish on Ethereum Than Anything Else’ Why the Founders of Aave and Sky Are Still Bullish on Ethereum DeFi Satoshi, Shorter Blocks, & Secret Plot - The Chopping Block Stani Kulechov on Why Aave Is So Successful - Ep.212 Links: Unchained: Aave Revenue Overhaul Sparks Governance Clash Aave Labs Proposes Off-Protocol Revenue Sharing With Token Holders The Chopping Block: Aave Civil War + Flow Hack + Coinbase Super-App Aave’s Rushed Governance Vote Draws Backlash How Aave Labs and the DAO Should Split Ownership of the Brand – Uneasy Money Uneasy Money: Why Token Holders Have No Rights & Why Every DAO ‘Has Failed’ ‘Poison Pill’ Proposal Calls for Aave DAO to Take Over Aave Labs AAVE Holders Question if DAO Quietly Redirected Revenue Away From Treasury Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    58 min
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    The Chopping Block: Dragonfly's $650M Fund + Crypto's Great Resignation + OpenClaw vs Crypto Twitter

    Dragonfly raises a $650M Fund IV amid crypto's institutional vs retail sentiment gap, the industry exodus including Kyle Samani's departure from Multicoin, OpenClaw's OpenAI acquisition and crypto Twitter harassment, X402 payment standards for AI agents, Polymarket's controversial 5-minute Bitcoin betting markets, and the brewing federal vs state regulation battle over prediction markets. Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This episode kicks off with major news: Dragonfly just closed their $650 million Fund IV, making them one of the largest crypto VCs not through growth, but because others have downsized. The timing feels surreal — they keep raising right when markets dump, creating the biggest gap between institutional optimism and retail sentiment Haseeb has ever seen. But money flowing in contrasts sharply with talent flowing out. Kyle Samani left Multicoin, Arianna Simpson departed A16z Crypto, and several other crypto veterans are moving on. The crew unpacks what this "great resignation" means for an industry that feels like it's shifted from pioneer phase to settler phase. Then they dive into the OpenClaw saga — the viral AI coding assistant that got acquired by OpenAI, but not before its creator almost deleted it due to harassment from crypto Twitter demanding he launch a token. This leads to a deep discussion on X402 payment standards and why AI agents might prefer crypto over credit cards. Finally, they debate Polymarket's controversial 5-minute Bitcoin betting markets and the brewing legal battle between federal and state regulation of prediction markets. Let's get into it. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. Show highlights 🔹 Dragonfly raises $650M Fund IV while other crypto VCs face "mass extinction" and downsizing 🔹 Kyle Samani's departure from Multicoin signals crypto's shift from pioneer to settler phase 🔹 Industry exodus includes Arianna Simpson, Toshi from Ethereum Foundation, and other veterans 🔹 OpenClaw creator almost deleted viral AI tool due to crypto Twitter harassment over tokens 🔹 X402 payment standard emerges as walletless protocol for AI agent transactions 🔹 OpenAI acquires OpenClaw through separate foundation structure, not direct acquisition 🔹 Polymarket launches controversial 5-minute Bitcoin up/down markets sparking gambling debate 🔹 CFTC chair files amicus briefs defending prediction markets against state regulation attempts 🔹 Federal vs state jurisdiction battle intensifies over event contracts vs sports betting classification 🔹 Institutional sentiment remains bullish while crypto native sentiment hits historic lows Hosts ⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate ⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures ⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:04 Dragonfly Closes $650M Fund IV 03:26 Institutional vs Retail Sentiment 06:14 Bear Markets as Opportunity 13:48 Kyle Samani’s Exit 21:44 OpenClaw Gets ‘Acquired’ by OpenAI 24:03 Token Pressure & Harassment 25:05 Is OpenClaw Actually Useful? 31:01 Why Open Source Will Move Faster Than Big Labs 33:13 Agents, Memecoins, and the Dark Incentives 37:40 Why Crypto Payments Beat Credit Cards 40:09 Polymarket’s New 5-Minute Markets 49:43 State Gambling Laws vs CFTC Federal Preemption Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    56 min
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    DEX in the City: Why Prediction Markets Could Spark a Huge Constitutional Fight

    The crew tackles everything from the CFTC's controversial stance on prediction markets to the real-world impacts of rising crypto crime. Thank you to our sponsors!  Figure is giving away $25,000 in USDC. Deposit into Democratized Prime, earn ~9% APY hourly—and every $1 you keep in for 25 days is 1 entry. Enter here  Adaptive Security: As AI makes deception easier, security gets harder. Adaptive runs deepfake and phishing simulations so your team can train for real-world threats. Explore more The CFTC has announced an innovation council, Chair Mike Selig has asserted that prediction markets are under the agency's ambit, SBF wants another trial and Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping is casting crypto in a negative light. In this episode of DEX in the City, hosts Jessi Brooks, Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos and TuongVy Le discuss how the distribution of the CFTC's council highlights industry's need for better gender equity, why Selig's stance on prediction markets triggers “a huge constitutional debate,” why SBF's push for a new trial is so dangerous for crypto, and whether the crypto industry can do more to mitigate crime. Find out why SBF's search for a new trial has far reaching effects beyond his case. Plus, can crypto tackle crime without sacrificing its benefits? If you want your crypto taxes done carefully — not guessed — Crypto Tax Girl is offering $100 off one-on-one crypto tax services. Their team focuses solely on crypto and has been helping investors navigate tax season since 2017. Save $100 here Hosts: ⁠Jessi Brooks⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, General Counsel at StarkWare ⁠TuongVy Le⁠, General Counsel at Veda Links: Unchained: SEC and CFTC Signal United Front on Crypto Trump Won’t Consider Pardon for SBF: Report DEX in the City: How Crypto Exchanges May Be Holding Up the Market Structure Bill This week's good news: How Ripple is Helping Great Ormond Street Hospital Charity to Unlock Crypto Philanthropy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    53 min
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    Bits + Bips: Is AI CapEx a Bubble? And Is Inflation Already Dead?

    The Mag 7 have committed over $700 billion to AI infrastructure, but the companies building the models may never capture the value. Thank you to our sponsors: Adaptive Security Fuse: The Energy Network The BLS just quietly revised away 862,000 jobs, and real-time inflation trackers now peg price growth below 1%, less than half of what official figures report.  If the Fed is steering monetary policy with stale data, investors need to ask what else the models are getting wrong.  At the same time, the Mag 7 have committed more than $700 billion to AI infrastructure, with Anthropic alone projecting $1 trillion in revenue within five years. Is that conviction or the early stages of a debt cycle nobody is pricing?  And then there is the institutional side of crypto: BlackRock's BUIDL fund just landed on Uniswap with $2.4 billion in assets, Apollo acquired $90 million in Morpho tokens, and AI agents are already settling micropayments in stablecoins.  Austin Campbell, Ram Ahluwalia, and Christopher Perkins sit down with Truflation’s CEO Stefan Rust to ask whether the numbers we trust are telling us the truth. Hosts: ⁠Ram Ahluwalia⁠, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida ⁠Austin Campbell⁠, NYU Stern professor and founder and managing partner of Zero Knowledge Consulting ⁠Christopher Perkins⁠, Managing Partner and President of CoinFund Guest: Stefan Rust, Founder and CEO of Truflation Links: Unchained:  BlackRock Just Chose Uniswap. The Market Didn’t Care. Here’s Why. Apollo Moves Into DeFi Lending With Morpho Token Deal UNI Spikes on BlackRock DeFi Move, Then Gives It All Back Macro: NBC: U.S. had almost no job growth in 2025 PBS: Inflation measure falls to nearly five-year low as gas prices fall and housing costs cool Crowdfund Insider: Secretary Of The Treasury Scott Bessent Calls Out Truflation's Inflation Numbers At Senate Banking Hearing AI CapEx: Amazon, Google And Others Are Pouring $700 Billion Into AI CapEx, Top Analyst Explains Why This Makes It 'Hard' To Bet Against Nvidia CIO: Data center capex to hit $1.7 trillion by 2030 due to AI boom Reuters: OpenClaw founder Steinberger joins OpenAI, open-source bot becomes foundation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    1 h 7 min
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    Bits + Bips: Bitcoin Miners Turn to AI for a Boost as BTC Falls

    As miners approach historical stress zones, Bitcoin’s correlation with tech stocks is hitting at the worst possible moment. Enter AI. Thank you to our sponsor Crypto Tax Girl! Public mining companies are once again approaching breakeven territory, a zone that in prior cycles preceded forced selling and capitulation. But unlike past downturns, balance sheets today are cleaner, leverage is lower, and many operators are pivoting toward AI data center hosting as a structural offramp. At the same time, Bitcoin has been trading alongside frontier technology stocks. That correlation is resurfacing at precisely the wrong moment, as growth equities face renewed pressure. If growth portfolios were the marginal buyers during the rally, they may now be the marginal sellers. In this episode, Steven Ehrlich speaks first with John Todaro about miner economics, hash rate dynamics, and whether another round of selling could emerge if Bitcoin remains near breakeven levels. Then Zach Pandl joins to examine Bitcoin’s correlation with tech stocks, the mechanics behind recent gold volatility, and why the next phase for crypto may be driven by differentiation rather than broad beta. Hosts: Steven Ehrlich, Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview Guests: Zach Pandl, Head of Research at Grayscale John Todaro, Managing Director, Crypto & HPC/AI Equity Research at Needham & Company Links: Bitcoin Miner Danger Zone Major Bitcoin Miners Face Shutdown Risk If BTC Falls Below $70,000 Miner Pivot to AI America’s Biggest Bitcoin Miners Are Pivoting to AI The Tech Selloff Wall Street’s Anything-But-Tech Trade Shakes Up US Stock Market Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    55 min
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    Uneasy Money: Are Institutions Creating a New Crypto Meta?

    The crew unpacks BlackRock buying UNI, ARK, Citadel, DTCC, the Intercontinental Exchange and other TradFi players backing Zero, , Vitalik's thoughts on AI, and more.  Thank you to our sponsors! Fuse: The Energy Network MultiChain Advisors Crypto Tax Girl AI safety chiefs are leaving, BlackRock's launching on Uniswap and buying UNI, LayerZero launches “the last blockchain” with institutional backing, Kaito is launching attention markets, Base is abandoning social and Vitalik has some thoughts on AI. Hosts Kain Warwick, Luca Netz and Taylor Monahan unpack these and more in yet another packed episode of Uneasy Money. Find out why Kain thinks the Uniswap and LayerZero news point to a new meta reminiscent of DeFi Summer. Plus, is Coinbase's Base playing it too safe? And is Vitalik fighting a losing battle? Hosts: Luca Netz, CEO of Pudgy Penguins Kain Warwick, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix Taylor Monahan, Security at MetaMask Links: Unchained: ⁠LayerZero Launches ‘Zero’ Layer 1 as Citadel, ARK Buy ZRO⁠ ⁠How Zero Blockchain Cracked 2 Million TPS and Is Still Decentralized⁠ ⁠Vitalik Buterin Pushes Back on the ‘Race to AGI,’ Outlines Ethereum-Led AI Path⁠ ⁠When AI Agents Take Over, What Does a Post-Human Economy Look Like?⁠ ⁠Uneasy Money: How the Increasingly Better AI Agents Are Being Used Onchain⁠ ⁠Uneasy Money: Why Crypto Still Can’t Overcome Its ICO Struggles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    1 h 13 min
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    DEX in the City: Is Now the 'Perfect Time to Launch a Crypto Scam'?

    The market structure bill introduces a "control" test for DeFi protocols. The problem: nobody agrees on what control means. Figure is giving away $25,000 in USDC. Deposit into Democratized Prime, earn ~9% APY hourly—and every $1 you keep in for 25 days is 1 entry. Enter here Peter Van Valkenburgh of Coin Center sits down with Jessi Brooks and Vy Le to confront a question that will determine which DeFi projects can operate in the United States and which ones can't.  The Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act creates a carve-out for non-custodial developers, codifying the principle that if you never hold customer funds, you shouldn't need a money transmitter license. Simple enough on paper.  But Vy presses on the hard cases: what about an admin key, an upgradeable vault, or a pause function built for security? Where exactly does "non-custodial" end and "control" begin?  Meanwhile, Jessi raises the tension the industry rarely wants to discuss. The DOJ just charged cartel brokers moving money through crypto, yet simultaneously dismantled its own enforcement teams.  If Congress clears developers, who pursues the actual criminals? The answer matters for every builder, investor, and victim watching this play out. Hosts: Jessi Brooks, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital TuongVy Le, General Counsel at Veda Guest: ⁠Peter Van Valkenburgh, Executive Director of Coin Center Links: ⁠​​Crypto Market Structure Bill Clears Senate Committee — But the Hard Part Is Still Ahead⁠ ⁠Senators Move to Curb Passive Stablecoin Yields in Market Structure Push⁠ ⁠Mastercard in Talks to Buy Zerohash for $2 Billion: Report⁠ ⁠How the GENIUS Act Creates a Built-In Advantage for Banks and Deposit Tokens⁠ ⁠How Nansen’s New Trading Agent Makes It Easier to Follow the Smart Money Onchain⁠ ⁠How the x402 Standard Is Enabling AI Agents to Pay Each Other⁠ ⁠Reading is Fundamental⁠ ⁠Stablecoin for Babies Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    56 min

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À propos

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world.

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