Sinica Podcast Kaiser Kuo
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A weekly discussion of current affairs in China with journalists, writers, academics, policymakers, business people and anyone with something compelling to say about the country that's reshaping the world. Hosted by Kaiser Kuo.
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Peter Hessler on his new book, "Other Rivers: A Chinese Education"
This week on Sinica, the highly-regarded writer Peter Hessler joins to talk about his new book, out July 9: Other Rivers: A Chinese Education. Over 20 years after teaching with the Peace Corps in Fuling (the subject of his first book, Rivertown, Pete returns to China to teach at Sichuan University in Chengdu. He writes about the two cohorts of students, with whom he has maintained extensive contacts, to offer fascinating insights into how China has changed across this momentous period with touching, deeply human stories.
3:47 – Why Pete couldn’t teach in Fuling again
6:56 – How Pete stayed in touch with his Fuling cohort
9:46 – Pete’s SCUPI [(Sichuan University-Pittsburgh Institute)] cohort
13:51 – Pete’s Fuling cohort
19:35 – Chinese rural values: pragmatism and modesty
23:08 – The physical and psychological differences between the Fuling and Chengdu cohorts
29:32 – “Educated acquiescence” in the Chinese education system
35:07 – The Hessler family’s experience with Chengdu Experimental Primary School
43:04 – The impending lack of “Country feel,” and Pete’s sense of humor
47:02 – Facing criticism over his reporting during the pandemic
52:13 – Pete’s experience being jǔbào’ed and teaching Orwell’s Animal Farm
59:01 – Pete’s take on the COVID origins debate
1:02:10 – Competition and authoritarianism in China, and the phenomenon of Chinese and Chinese American Trump supporters
1:06:57 – Serena’s investigation for Chángshì and why Pete’s contract was not renewed
1:15:28 What’s next for Pete
Recommendations:
Pete: Burma Sahib by Paul Theroux, a forthcoming novel about George Orwell’s time in Burma as a policeman; Burmese Days by George Orwell
Kaiser: the Meta Quest VR headset
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Taiwan, Ukraine, and the Sino-American Rivalry
This week on Sinica, a conversation that I moderated on May 30th called “Assessing the Impact of US-China Rivalry on Ukraine and Taiwan,” put on by the Ukrainian Platform for Contemporary China. The main organizer was my friend Vita Golod, who is the chair of the Ukrainian Association of Sinologists.
The panelists are: Dmytro Burtsev, a Junior Fellow at A. Krymskyi Institute of Oriental Studies, National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine.Da Wei, Director of the Center for International Security and Strategy and Professor at the School of Social Sciences at Tsinghua University. Emilian Kavalski, Professor at the Centre for International Studies and Development at Jagiellonian University in Krakow. I Yuan, Adjunct Research Fellow at the Institute of International Relations, National Chengchi University, Taiwan.
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Jonathan Chatwin on Deng Xiaoping's 1992 Southern Tour
This week on Sinica, Kaiser is joined by Jonathan Chatwin, author of a new book about Deng Xiaoping's "Southern Tour" of early 1992 — a pivotal event that renewed a commitment to economic reforms after they'd stalled following 1989, and seized the initiative from conservatives in the Chinese leadership. The book is called The Southern Tour: Deng Xiaoping and the Fight for China's Future.
2:10 – Why Jonathan focused on the Southern Tour, and the narratives surrounding it in China
7:19 – How the events of ’89 influenced Deng’s thinking
11:08 – How the political fates of Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang affected Deng’s planning
14:31 – The reformers’ path to victory from the second half of ’89 to January of ’92
20:32 – Deng’s vision of opportunity in the face of communism’s apparent global retreat
24:53 – How Deng’s personal experiences shaped his policy decisions
27:07 – The strategic signaling and risky timing of the Southern Tour
34:07 – The influence of the Chinese horoscope, and “The Story of Spring”
37:33 – Shenzhen speed
40:57 – What Jonathan learned about Deng Xiaoping
45:00 – Jonathan’s recommendations for learning more about Deng Xiaoping and the post-Mao era
46:18 – Xi Jinping, the “end” [not sure how to phrase] of Deng’s reform and opening era, and the [parallels with the?] Chinese economic situation today
Recommendations
Jonathan: China’s Hidden Century, edited by Jessica Harrison-Hall and Julia Lovell, produced to accompany the British Museum’s exhibition by that name; and the app Voice Dream, a text-to-speech reader
Kaiser: Andrea Wulf’s Magnificent Rebels: The First Romantics and the Invention of the Self, a book about the group of German Romantics gathered in Jena, Germany
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Ed Lanfranco: from Hoarder to Historian
This week on the Sinica Podcast, Kaiser is joined by old friend Ed Lanfranco, who lived in Beijing from 1988 to 2009. An inveterate packrat, Ed managed to accumulate an incredible trove of documents, maps, photos, and ephemera from his years there and from the decades and even centuries before his arrival. Ed talks about his collection, and invites scholars interested in his material to get in touch!
2:46 – Ed’s time in China and saving ephemera
11:47 – Ed’s favorite old Chinese brands
14:41 – Ed’s map collection
19:34 – The Tiananmen incident of 1976, Ed’s collection of unpublished photographs from the Panjiayuan Antique Market, and a leaflet from April 7th, 1976
30:40 – Ed’s patriotic music record collection
33:28 – Ed’s U.S.-China collection
38:00 – The story behind Ed’s U.S.-China panda button from 2002
43:18 – Ed’s Tiananmen ’89 story and collection of leaflets and files
50:56 – The Underground City of Beijing tour
53:50 – Ed’s SARS 2003 epidemic experience and artifacts
Recommendations:
Ed: Roger Garside’s Coming Alive: China After Mao; Lin Yutang’s works, especially My Country and My People and The Importance of Living
Kaiser: The Rochester-based progressive metal trio Haishen’s new album, Awaken the Endless Deep
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Jay Kuo on Beijing's Gay 90s
This week on Sinica, I'm delighted to welcome — my brother! Jay Kuo is a Broadway writer & producer, and the man behind the terrific U.S. politics-focused Substack newsletter The Status Kuo. In a previous life, from 1996 to 2000, he was also really active in Beijing's gay community, just at the time when homosexuality was being decriminalized and was stepping out of the shadows. We talk about how it all took off. Jay also puts on his other hat to talk about how China figures into American politics with the election less than five months away, and about the legal standing of the TikTok divest-or-ban law.
4:54 – The gay community in Beijing in the ‘90s, and the Half-and-Half bar in Sanlitun
16:06 – How the gay community in Beijing changed after two major rulings
27:33 – The end of the “golden era” for the gay community in China
36:26 – Progress and its drivers and obstacles
42:28 – Jay’s “China priors”
50:41 – The issue of China in the upcoming U.S. presidential election
57:08 – The TikTok ban bill
Recommendations:
Jay: The TV series Manhunt (2024), available on Apple TV
Kaiser: The TV series The Sympathizer (2024), available on HBO; the audiobook of The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen, narrated by François Chau
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The Struggle for Taiwan: Sulmaan Wasif Khan of Tufts University on his new book
This week on Sinica, I chat with Sulmaan Wasif Khan, professor of history and international relations at the Fletcher School at Tufts University, about his book The Struggle for Taiwan: A History of America, China, and the Island Caught Between, which comes on May 14.
4:28 — The Cairo Agreement
6:59 — General George Marshall, George Kennan, and the change in the idea of American trusteeship of Taiwan?
17:08 — The debate over the offshore islands of Kinmen and Matsu
23:55 — Mao’s evolving interest in Taiwan
27:49 — The averted crisis of 1962
32:06 — Peng Ming-min and the Taiwan independence movement
37:14 — What changed in 1971?
42:51 — The legacy of Chiang Ching-kuo
45:14 — The story of Lee Teng-hui
52:37 — The change within the Kuomintang
1:00:11 — Why Taiwan has become “sacred” for China
1:10:26 — Sulmaan’s own narrative shift
1:13:26 — Chen Shui-bian and the threat of independence referendums
1:17:53 — The Sunflower Movement
1:25:21 — The causal direction of Taiwan’s importance in the U.S.-China relationship
1:28:32 — Why the status quo shifted
1:30:51 — Drawing parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine
1:33:26 — Sulmaan’s sources for his book
1:35:38 — Agency versus structure
1:39:29 — Feedback (so far) on the new book and what’s next for Sulmaan
Recommendations:
Sulmaan: Emily Wilson’s translation of The Iliad
Kaiser: The “My China Priors” series (and other essays), available on the Sinica Substack; Angus Stewart’s essay, “Alien Bless You: A Review of Netflix’s 3 Body Problem”
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