In this episode of the Disambiguation podcast, host Michael Fauscette talks with Patrice Greene and Kathy Macchi, co-founders of Inverta, about why marketing's rush to AI efficiency missed the point, and what it really takes to rethink go-to-market workflows with AI at the core rather than bolted on top.Patrice is an early adopter of marketing automation who started in sports marketing before spending years in the Marketo community, eventually co-founding Inverta. Kathy brings an IT and operations background and has never had the luxury of separating marketing strategy from marketing infrastructure. Together they built Inverta to bridge the gap between strategy-led firms that lacked technical depth and tech-enabled firms that had no strategy, delivering what they call "roll up your sleeves" operational consulting for B2B marketing.The conversation covers what CMOs told Inverta's council at the end of 2025 (they thought they'd be further along with AI), why individual efficiency gains never translated into revenue impact, why you have to redesign workflows across teams rather than just hand out tools, the European supply chain analogy (why marketing needs its own ERP moment), the McKinsey threat (if marketers don't define how AI fits their function, consultants will define it for them), how CMOs need political capital and a vision that goes beyond cost cutting, Geoffrey Moore's four-box framework applied to AI decision-making in marketing, why managing AI agents has the same challenges as managing people (including a cautionary story about an agent that eroded a premium brand by over-optimizing for discounts), how AI is creating a new role in the buyer group and making 1-to-1 ABM at scale finally possible, and where marketing leaders should start their first AI workflow pilot.Timestamps (approximate, verify against final edit):00:00 - Introduction00:45 - Patrice and Kathy's backgrounds: from Marketo and IT ops to co-founding Inverta02:37 - Why Inverta exists: bridging the gap between strategy and tech in B2B marketing03:58 - CMO council findings: teams thought they'd be further along with AI05:07 - Individual efficiency gains did not translate into revenue06:22 - Don't leave adoption to chance: clarity, accountability, and support07:55 - Patrice: has efficiency really been realized? Now what?09:08 - FOMO is driving rapid adoption of AI point solutions09:56 - Automating broken processes just makes them broken faster11:29 - The European supply chain analogy: rethink the whole workflow13:17 - Who owns AI workflow redesign? Marketing, IT, or a translator?15:01 - Traction, not transformation: why the big word is counterproductive16:06 - Skills required: marketing expertise, org design, facilitation, change management16:55 - Marketing therapists: managing anxiety and fear in teams18:33 - Accountability: who is responsible when an AI workflow goes wrong?19:25 - The cost cutting trap: Gartner says you'll rehire 50-60% in two years20:40 - The story can't be all about efficiency: it has to be about growth21:17 - AI-mediated buyer journey: if you're not investing now, you won't even show up23:33 - The McKinsey threat: define AI's role or someone else will27:30 - Geoffrey Moore's four-box framework: core vs. context for AI decisions30:55 - Hybrid teams: workflow redesign before agents32:16 - Managing agents is like managing people: goals, guardrails, performance reviews33:29 - Brand risk story: agent over-optimized for discounts35:00 - Creating content for machines and people35:56 - AI as a new buyer group role: agents doing research on behalf of buyers37:30 - 1-to-1 ABM at scale: what used to be a luxury is now possible38:47 - Where to start: pick a workflow problem with a measurable outcome40:49 - Recommendations: Kerry Cunningham and Jeff WoodsGuest: Patrice Greene and Kathy Macchi, Co-Founders, InvertaHost: Michael Fauscette, CEO & Chief Analyst, Arion ResearchSubscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode
