Resist and Renew

Resist and Renew

The Resist+Renew podcast, where facilitators interview social movement organisers about their work and how they do it, along with a good chunk of geeking out about the different tools in our training toolbox.

  1. Becoming ungovernable (Aviah from Hackney Copwatch)

    11/03/2022

    Becoming ungovernable (Aviah from Hackney Copwatch)

    Season 2 episode 15 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we interview Aviah. A sneaky extra episode after the season closer! It took us a while to get back together. Aviah is a lecturer at Birkbeck, University of London, and is a community organiser the rest of the time. She is involved in the East End branch of Sisters Uncut, a national direct-action collective fighting cuts to domestic violence services as well as state violence. She is also involved in Hackney Copwatch, London Renters Union and the Kill the Bill Coalition, a national movement resisting the Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill. “Effectively, if you can organise enough people to [know their rights and intervene] in a coordinated way, then you can actually withdraw consent from policing altogether” – Aviah Show notes, links Netpol: the network for police monitoring Newham Monitoring Project, which shut down in 2016 after running for 36 years United Families and Friends Campaign, a coalition of people affected by deaths in state custody. There are Copwatch groups in Hackney, Bristol, Manchester, Lambeth, Liverpool, Southwark, Haringey, and Cardiff. the Anti-Raids Network, community resistance to immigration raids To find out about Copwatch, if you’re considering getting involved: either DM an existing group (accounts listed above) or email sistersuncut@gmail.com! We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript SAMI: Hello everybody and welcome to this sneaky extra episode of The Resist and Renew Podcast, where we are interviewing Aviah. Do you want to say hi? AVIAH: Hi. SAMI: Seamless. So Aviah is a lecturer, at Birkbeck, which is part of the University of London, and also does a lot of community organizing, and she’s involved in the East End branch of Sisters Uncut, which is one branch of a national organization that’s like a direct action collective fighting cuts to domestic violence services, and other forms of state violence, and Aviah is also involved in local branches of CopWatch so Hackney CopWatch and London Renters Union, and is also involved Kill the Bill coalition – a national movement resisting the Policing Crime and Sentencing Bill that is currently going through the parliamentary organs, as we record this in early March, 2022. SAMI: So first things first.. Aviah what can you say about the political context that you are organizing in? AVIAH: The current political context is probably the most intense political context I’ve ever organized in. It’s been a very intense year. And, yeah, there’s, there’s a sort of ongoing political crisis, particularly for the Metropolitan Police, that we, you know, at Sisters Uncut and also the Kill the Bill coalition and cop watch groups have been organizing to exploit. If that doesn’t sound too Machiavellian, maybe I don’t mind if it sounds too Machiavellian, I do want to destroy the cops, that’s fine. AVIAH: But yeah, I guess that kind of that emerged out of, you know, I mean Sisters Uncut have been organizing around policing and the impact of policing, particularly around gendered violence, for like a number of years. And, you know, there’s the occupation of Holloway prison, organizing around the death of Sarah Read a few years ago in Holloway prison. And, and, yeah, highlighting the, you know, spending years organizing highlighting the dangers of what we call, like many sort of black feminists call carceral feminism and the kind of feminism that invest in the police and prisons, as a sort of remedy for gendered violence and that actually you know we’ve been organizing around that for years to kind of highlight how dangerous and how effectively, it ends up punishing the survivors it claims to be supporting. AVIAH: And it was in that context of years of sort of organizing around that that situation emerged around the disappearance, and murder of Sarah Everard. And, and, yeah, I mean, you know, she was quite a relatively unusual situation that happened, and of, you know, a targeted kidnapping. In full view, you know, on the streets doesn’t happen very often. It’s not usually the way, you know, women are targeted for gendered violence is quite rare to sort of for strangers to sort of abduct someone and kill them, and that being said, you as it emerged at the person who had done that was the serving Metropolitan Police Officer. And later, and as it emerged that he had used all of the state apparatus that was given to him in order to carry that out and actually arrested, kidnapped her in front of passers by. That in itself created a huge huge huge situation political situation for the Metropolitan Police. AVIAH: In the early days after her disappearance, you know, there was a video that was announced by Reclaim the Streets and, which they started as a response to the fact that the police were telling women in Lamberth to sort of stay at home when when Sarah Everard had gone missing and the person who was responsible for her disappearance was still at that point on launch at large and unknown. And, you know, they were telling women to stay at home and reclaim the streets decided to have this vigil as a response to that. What they interpreted as police misogyny as making it you know women’s responsibility to essentially curfew themselves as their protection and not actually be part of public life, essentially, and you know, the Metropolitan Police did everything within the within their power to stop reclaim the streets from going ahead with their vigil, and they went down the sort of legalistic route to try and to try and gain the this legal right to to do that because it was during lockdown and the police were interpreting the lockdown rules as basically banning protest in any kind of assembly. AVIAH: And, and, you know, they went to the High Court, and all of this and eventually they actually because the police were still refusing to facilitate this as legal protest or legal vigil reclaim the streets, stepped down stepped out of the original and kind of tried to cancel the vigil, the last minute on the day of it. And it was highly publicized. A lot of people were planning on going anyway. Sisters Uncut had said this, few days before that we were going to be there and present, and we took the decision to go anyway. And, yeah, it was, it was after that, that, you know, basically, we went. The police initiated a violent crack down. That was very highly publicized by the media, the violence of it, and the context of of that kind of violence was very shocking to a lot of people, a lot of people who might not ordinarily be particularly critical with the police. And, and, and we essentially, you know, made the argument that if people are you know we’ve known for a very long time and been very realistic about the violence of the police we weren’t really, particularly surprised at their violence, we’ve been organizing this for a number of years. And at that point when when so much of this sort of media attention was had pivoted towards this incident, both in terms of Sarah Everard, but also the violence of the police officers at the video and her name. You know, we kind of highlighted that the following week, more powers were being proposed to be given to the police. And it was out of that, that, you know, we thought it was important to mobilize against the Police Crime Sentencing and Courts bill. AVIAH: And, Yeah. Over the last year, we’ve kind of seen the political crisis for policing essentially, only grow, and the movement for the Police Crime Sentencing and Courts bill or Kill the Bill has also sort of grown and matured and yeah so now we’re in a situation, you know, sort of a year later, where, you know, you know, more than 50% of Londoners don’t trust the Metropolitan Police, Cressida Dick has now finally stood down. And, yeah, CopWatch groups have sprung up across the country but across the capital as well as a means of resisting police powers, the powers they already use but also the powers proposed in the, in the, in the bill. And so, Yeah, it’s been it’s been a wild year. And, and yeah that’s that’s the context and community organizing in. SAMI: Thanks for that that’s really useful and, and it feels like. Because you described it as like a, like a like a crisis for policing, not just the Met police but probably a little bit more broadly as well, like, what do you feel like it is as to why that’s happening like now specifically. Like obviously you mentioned some of the reasons around, specifically the Sarah Everar vigil that ended up getting highly repressed and generated a lot of backlash for the Met from people who normally are quite pro the Met. Yeah. And, but you also mentioned, like there’s been a long history of other kinds of organizing and campaigning around like police violence and state violence so like, do you feel like there were other reasons around like the now, specifically as to like, why this feels like more exploitable now? Like one thing that comes to my mind is obviously like there’s been a lot more focus in the last few years around like groups talking about like abolition and things like that after like some of the like Black Lives Matter uprisings and things like that, like, what do you do you feel like there are other like things that have led to this point, that feel worth mentioning. AVIAH: Yes. I mean, the interesting thing is that so myself, and another comrade from Sisters and CopWatch are currently writing a book about abolitionist politics for the British context. And when we started writing that book was, well, the first sort of like you know proposal was being put together like just before the pandemic hit. And that was very much like kind of like, all we need to make an argument as to why abolition should be taken up by the left in Britain. A

    58 min
  2. Season 2: that’s a wrap!

    26/02/2022

    Season 2: that’s a wrap!

    Season 2 episode 14 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where… we wrap up for season 2! Show notes, links Sign up to our newsletter to hear about our future conflict courses! And finally, some perennial resources: our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford). See our “What is facilitation?” podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources. We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript SAMI: Ok so that’s it – we’re done with Season 2 of the podcast! Wooo. SAMI: That’s the end! We’re done with season 2 of the podcast! Woo ALI: Woop woop. Yep although we may have a cheeky bonus interview, we haven’t yet confirmed it, so watch this space just in case. Katherine? KATHERINE: I was wondering if we wanted to share some overall top takeaways from this season? SAMI: For me, in terms of top takeaways, I think probably a thing, maybe because it was the most recent thing we talked about in the toolbox, a thing that really stands out for me is that all the interventions that we suggest around responding to conflict happening in your group is a variant of: note that there is conflict happening, and try and create space to process and deal with it as a group. And everything else is just like detail, it’s format, it’s nuance. But the “note it and deal with it as a group” is the stand-out top takeaway for me. KATHERINE: I’ve loved speaking to all the groups, it’s been lovely to hear from so many people. And I think that I really found the toolbox to be incredible this year, for myself and for my own learning and to be able to have chats with both of you about what conflict is, and how we understand it or don’t understand it, and what to do about it. And just feeling really excited to learn more, and carry on from all of that work we’re going to be carrying on over the coming year. Spoilers! ALI: Yeah so, for me this has just been a really big project, we started talking about this in what June? July? And it’s now February, the end of February? That’s quite a long time to be working on something! So that’s been exciting. I agree with what you both said, and something new, for me I think it was really helpful to go into the frames of conflict. Specifically when Sami led that Toolbox about punitive, restorative and transformative justice – I found that really helpful. I really enjoyed those conversations right at the beginning. They feel like ages ago, so it’s good to reflect on those. SAMI: and it goes without saying – thanks to everybody that we interviewed, the groups and the people from those groups who gave up time to talk to us, we really appreciate it. They’ve been gems. And as always, thanks to Klaus and Kareem for your beautiful music ALI: to Rowan for the transcription this season – and a belated thank you to Katherine for last season, it’s quite a gruelling task, so thanks to both of you. KATHERINE: And we also want to say a massive thank you to Sami ALI: For getting all the podcast stuff ready and putting it on our website ready to go! KATHERINE: And this whole podcast wouldn’t be possible without you Ali doing all the editing work behind the scenes, so a huge thanks to you ALI: aw shucks SAMI: and thank you crucially to our two patrons – big up to them – we said we’d give you literally nothing for your money and you came through anyways, we really appreciate it, genuinely. ALI: Yeah thanks. And one final thing we wanted to mention was that, partly as a result of doing this podcast, we’ve decided that we want to do some research and development for new workshop content around conflict, anti-oppression and transformative justice – trying to see if there are any gaps in the usual conflict tools about anti-oppression and transformative justice and see if we can find ways to fill them… KATHERINE: yep that’s really exciting – and what it means is that probably by the end of summer we’ll be looking to try out some new workshops around conflict and anti-oppression. So if you want to be in the know – follow us on socials, or join our very rarely used newsletter which you can find in the show notes of this episode, or on our website. SAMI: Awesome… ALI: and also, thanks to you for listening. Thanks for giving us the time to fill your heads with our voices. Ok bye! ALL: byeeeeee! SAMI: the end.

    5 min
  3. Toolbox: You’ve named it, now what?

    19/02/2022

    Toolbox: You’ve named it, now what?

    Season 2 episode 13 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about a few tools to respond when conflict is happening in a meeting. ‘The sad update that we have is, at least to our knowledge, there is no fancy Magic Bullet intervention.’ Show notes, links An outline of the VERA model: Validate “I understand why it seems that way…” “Yes, I can see why you think that…” “Yeah, I’ve definitely heard that it’s a struggle to get council housing, given the long waiting lists…” Explain “I like to think of it more like…” “If we look at [this fact], then…” “…but I don’t think that’s because of ‘too many migrants’ taking houses – especially as so many migrants are barred from social housing lists…” Reframe “So if we look at it from that angle…” “Which means I think…” “…I think the the real problem is decades of underfunding of social housing, meaning that there aren’t enough houses for the people who need them, and the ones that are there are often shit quality…” Ask “What do you make of that?” “…does that make sense?” Some of the other tools we mentioned: Name, frame, pause. Pro = don’t need a solution to respond with this, or even know what’s going on. Example phrase = “It feels like there’s some disagreement and heat here that’s not really being acknowledged. Is there something I’m missing here? Do you two maybe have different priorities when it comes to this topic?” Request a group pause. Pro = can use the break to reduce the heat and switch tracks to approach the conflict from a different direction Example phrase =  “I think things are getting tense here, and I don’t think I can continue to focus, could we maybe take a few mins break and come back?” Enhanced name, frame, pause — where you talk to someone else to explore a challenge and why your group isn’t already dealing with the problem. Pro = dealing with thornier problems is easier with support. Some resources: Seeds for Change’s guides on giving and receiving feedback and active listening A handout from Boston University about using “I statements” And finally, some perennial resources: our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford). See our “What is facilitation?” podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources. We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript ALI This is Resist Renew, KATHERINE the UK based podcast about social movements, SAMI what we’re fighting for, why and how it all happens. ALI The hosts of the show are KATHERINE Me, Kat. SAMI Me, Sami, ALI and me, Ali. SAMI I’m recording this now, baby! ALI Shit, it’s a podcast! ALI Okay, welcome back to the toolbox. In this episode, we are going to look at tools and tips for handling conflict in the moment. In all the other episodes, we’ve given a lot of content around frames and ideas about conflict, and some tools for preventing it or handling it outside of the moment. And now we are going to get dive right into what to do if conflict is happening right now. SAMI Great, and I guess one, one thing that will probably soon become obvious is for various scheduling readings, various scheduling reasons, Katherine is not here for this recording. So you’ll just have to make do with me and Ali. I hope that’s fine. And so we’re gonna, we’re going to put forward a few like, very high level scenarios, and then we’re going to talk through so like: Okay, so in this situation, what could you do about it? So one scenario could be the classic one, which is that there is some form of like active beef in a meeting. We’ve made the distinction before about like when there’s forms of conflict that lie under the surface and forms of conflicts that like spiking up in a meeting. This is the spiking up in the meeting one. And to make this all purpose, you don’t have to imagine that you’re the facilitator of this meeting, you’re just the person who’s in this meeting, and is witnessing the beef playing out. So. What are some interventions that we could do in this scenario. ALI The first intervention we want to bring is called Name, Frame and Pause. And what we mean by this is just kind of pointing to the fact that you think there’s conflict going on, trying to give some kind of explanation about what you think is happening, and then asking others if you think that’s true, making space to talk about it. It’s the minimal intervention in some ways, like, basically, drawing to the attention of the group that something is happening, and not letting it slide past. So, as an example intervention, in this case, you might just say something like, ‘It feels like there’s some kind of disagreement and heat here that’s not really being acknowledged. Is there something I’m missing here? Do you two, who seems to be raising your voices have different priorities about what is being discussed in this topic?’ And then people may respond in different ways. But you’ve named it and you’ve given an explanation. And then everyone else can chime in with agreement or disagreement. Whatever. SAMI Yeah. And I think one thing that’s, that’s good about this one is, I guess it doesn’t matter if your framing of the situation is right, necessarily, as long as you put it forward tentatively, then having a guess that gives people have the opportunity to be able to like, correct you and be like, ‘Oh, no, that’s not what’s happening.’ Or like, ‘Oh, no, like, it may seem like we’re really annoyed at each other, but actually, this is like how we talk all the time.’ And it’s totally fine. Well, maybe it’s not totally fine that this is how we talk all the time, who knows. And also, the reason that I really like this as a way, I guess it’s the minimal intervention is like, you don’t have to have any idea what could be done to resolve this as a situation, you just have to propose an idea for what you think is going on, and then be like, ‘Let’s talk about it.’ And then there’s a chance that especially if you’re in a group of people, of like, maybe five, six, or more then like, there’s a decent chance that somebody in the room will have an idea of something that could be done about it. So you’re like, making sure that the group takes responsibility for this thing, which is happening in the group, which is nice. ALI Amazing. And so often, these moments just slide by and people be like, Oh, I wish it did something. And I’m really simple thing is to just be like, ‘Aah, it feels like something’s happening. I don’t know what to do.’ SAMI Yeah, it’s the it’s the record scratch intervention. Okay, should we give another option? We’re doing a bit of a quick fire what this episode, people! Another potential option is: take a small pause. If it seems like the beef is kicking off. So maybe take like a five or 10 minute break. So, what we mean by that is if things start to get heated in meeting, then it can be helpful to give people space to just like have a slight cooling off before maybe trying to address what’s happening. So rather than the previous one, which is: go straight in with, like, there’s beef happening, let’s know it this is a: maybe let’s take a slight pause before we, before we do something. So an example intervention could be something like, ‘It feels like things are really starting to like, get a bit tense in this meeting. And it’s it’s impacting my ability to focus on what’s happening, because I’m starting to feel a bit tense as well. And maybe it would be good if we all take a maybe 10 minute break, go outside, have a little walk around, and then come back in 10 minutes, and then we can like, get back on talking about this as a thing.’ ALI Sweet. Yeah. And some considerations to take in to consideration..? [both laugh] Yep, good, good, good. What you might want to think about is, in the break, people might want to use that break to talk to people, particularly if like, some individuals are getting a bit heated, maybe you want to take take some of those people aside and just like, see how they’re doing or whatever. It’s an opportunity to use, use that time. Maybe they just want to breathe, or you just want to breathe, and that’s fine. But if you don’t do that, maybe you might end up come back- coming back into exactly the same situation. Which could be fine. Or it could be easier if you’d done something differently. And when you come back, maybe you want to try if you are the facilitator, or maybe you want to chat to the facilitator, you could ask people to talk to each other in pairs, just be like, ‘Maybe take five minutes to talk to your neighbour and be like, how are you feeling? What do you think’s going on in this meeting, that’s not really vibing for you at that moment?’ Because that, again, brings all the other brains and feelings in the room to like, assess what’s going on. It doesn’t put it on you to like solve the conflict: everybody’s going to have a view of what’s happening. And that’s really, that’s more information than helpful. SAMI And I think I guess like that’s a common theme. And what we’re saying now is like, if it feels like there is like an individual disagreement that’s happening in the space, then what are ways that you can try and collectivise it and make sure that the group can try and hold it as a conflict. And one thing that I think is nice about that, about this as an intervention is like if if there is like a conflict happening, and then you go straight in with like, ‘I think maybe we should all like, just take like all chat to the p

    22 min
  4. Toolbox: Conflict in the moment

    12/02/2022

    Toolbox: Conflict in the moment

    Season 2 episode 12 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about how to deal with conflict in the moment where it spikes up, using a frame called an “OODA loop”. ‘Conflict doesn’t have to be fighting or loud. It can be a stickiness, or a tenseness that our body is picking up on.’ Show notes, links Why this is a useful frame: intervening in conflict situations can feel difficult; it is easier when you do these steps first!. In the “Observe” step, a few things to look for: volume changes an issue “cycling” back again and again issues being raised but not addressed participation changes (did some people leave the space and not come back) feeling tense in your body In the “Orient” step, a few questions to reflect on: Who is involved, and who isn’t? Who is visibly involved, who could be not visibly involved? What roles are people taking (formal and informal)? Why do you think it’s happening now? (e.g. specific timings What’s your position in this? How could this pan out? Do you think it will escalate, or fizzle out? In the “Decide” step, a few areas to consider: WHEN to intervene: never; later but not now; now; a mix WHO should intervene: you? You + someone else? Other people, not you? WHAT you could do: have a side chat with people you think are “in conflict”; checking in on what a person who has been harmed wants; activating a pre-existing conflict process; name that conflict is happening, and explicitly park it til later; take a pause, to make a plan; name + ask people what’s happening; find out what (some / all) people need; name and frame. In the “Act” step… good luck! More on potential interventions next week… Other resources on OODA loops as a model: A podcast that talks about OODA loops in more depth than we do… …or a blog post breaking down the OODA loop steps, if you prefer written things. And finally, some perennial resources: our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford). See our “What is facilitation?” podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources. We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript ALI This is Resist Renew, KATHERINE the UK based podcast about social movements, SAMI what we’re fighting for, why and how it all happens. ALI The hosts of the show are KATHERINE Me, Kat. SAMI Me, Sami, ALI and me, Ali. SAMI I’m recording this now, baby! ALI Shit, it’s a podcast! KATHERINE Welcome to this episode of the toolbox. Today we’re going to be exploring what to do in the moment when conflict sparks. And we’re going to explore this using a thing called an OODA. Loop. And the OODA stands for Observe, Orient, Decide and Act. Over to you, Sami, to tell us what this is. SAMI Yes, I will try. [Luahgs] So: full disclosure, this is an idea that comes from like military with like a military background. So I’m not going to pretend I’ve ever like been trained at this at military school or whatever. But yeah, so the this like this OODA Loop, like to imagine it, as like a circle with Observe, Orient Describe Act as like a set of steps that you’ll go through when deciding to do something in some kind of like conflictual situation or other type of situation. And so and I think just breaking out those distinct steps is probably quite helpful. Like, often when there is a conflict, you will have a step of, like, trying to work out what’s going on, which is like maybe an observation step; which maybe has a question around it, like how do you know that there is a conflict happening? Like, what is the signal that tells you that? There’s something about orienting, which is like, kind of digesting what you’re observing. And like, thinking about how to structure that information. So having a bit of think about like, what is the information that you want to try and, like, pay attention to and like, all those kinds of questions. So: Decide is the next one which is… So like, this one’s probably the one the least relevant to this, because deciding and acting probably for this kind of equivalent. And then so like, then the question is like, so what, How are you going to act? Now? How exactly is that going to take shape? So like, when are you going to act? How are you going to act? What you’re going to say? And questions like that. So what we’re going to do in this episode is probably less, because this is more of like, this is a frame like a way of thinking we’re not suggesting you should use this as a tool in your group. But it’s more: this is a useful frame, maybe, to help think of what some questions, what some areas that will generate some questions around are some things that you can reflect on, when there is a conflict happening, that you’re participating in, witnessing, etc. So, first question is maybe is so like, how would you know that there is a conflict happening? Who wants to take that one? ALI So, I guess there’s a few different signals that might tell us that there’s conflict happening. One that might be quite obvious, even though this isn’t just what conflict is, is like, people might get loud and start shouting a each other, or there might be some kind of physical signals of people making angry faces, sad faces. So that might be one thing. But it could be also completely the opposite. And people go really silent, go quiet, might leave, might never come back to your group or meeting. So yeah: both ends of the spectrum there could be a signal. KATHERINE I think there’s also something around a signal to pay attention to if the same concern keeps arising again, and again, like a phrase for this is ‘cycling’, like when something is cycling back around, is a sense that maybe there’s an issue that’s not been dealt with yet, because it keeps returning to your group. And therefore, maybe a decision needs to be made about what’s gonna happen with that issue that keeps returning. ALI And that, is that one where it might be on the level of like values that haven’t been like, fully talked through, potentially, like the same issue keeps coming up and getting stuck and not being able to, like move past it? It might be… It’s not that we can’t decide what’s the best action. It’s like, do we think this is in line with our values? Are there like fundamentally like diverging paths there? Yeah, absolutely. And I guess another one related to that is like, people name that they’re not happy about something, but then nothing happens as a result of that. Which is a common one, especially in groups where there’s not very much time to process things if there’s a long action list. ALI And I guess another signal could be more of like a – internal sense. It could be your own emotions, it could be the way your body feels, if you just suddenly feel tense. That also is a signal and it’s worth paying attention to that as well. Even if, you know, like mainstream thinking around like, intuition and bodies is like not – it tells you to devalue that. But it is like a it is a signal as well. So those are a few different signals that there might be conflict going on. Does someone want to tell us about what would come next after that, in this OODA Loop? SAMI I can give it a go. Because it’s, because, so, that’s maybe some things that you’re like…. Those are some ways that you’ll notice that conflict is happening, and maybe you’ll be so like, it’s always good to then be like observing the group and just like trying to absorb what’s going on, and maybe some questions that will help you like kind of, I guess, structure that information, which is what the Orient is in the OODA. Which I think is the hardest one to remember what it means is like, how do you structure the information? So there are some a few questions that you could think of around some like I guess frames or lenses you could use to analyse what’s happening. So for example, like who is involved in this, like spark, and who isn’t? And thinking about what it means to be involved. Like, who’s visibly involved? Does it seem like there are people that are like not visibly involved in that they’re maybe not in this spark that’s happening, but maybe you think they’re, they have some kind of involvement, maybe outside of this discussion, space, whatever. Thinking about, like, what the different kind of like roles people occupying are, maybe in like a formal sense in a group. You know, like, if they’re the treasurer, and it’s an argument about money or whatever, like, maybe the roles will be relevant. And but also, like, in a more general sense, like, what kind of like positions they’re taking, like rank and power and questions like that in the space. And there’s maybe some, like more meta, there’s sort of like quite practical ones, of like, things you may be noticing, but there’s probably also some, like meta conversations around that, which is around like, like, having a think about like, Why do you think this information’s coming out now? Like, is, do you have a space to process conflict? And that didn’t go to that one? In which case why? Or do you feel like this is erupting now, because people don’t have another place to mention it? Things like that. So there are some thoughts. Any other ones that are relevant under that? ALI You might want to think about you as a person in this like, dynamic as well. Like, what’s your particular role and, and rank in relation to the other people involved? And maybe your relationships with the other people? And you might want to think about, like, what might what’s like potential things might happen in this situation? Like, is it something where the conflict could escalate? O

    21 min

  5. 04/02/2022

    Toolbox: Positions in conflict

    Season 2 episode 11 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about a model to understand some different positions that exist in conflicts. ‘This tool forces you to think about what it would be like for you to be in any of these different roles: having caused harm, having been harmed and having witnessed harm. We often don’t want to think about the possibility of ever causing harm.’ Show notes, links Why this is a useful frame: these different positions have different needs; all of us could occupy any of these positions at any one time. Some links to things mentioned in the episode: The Karpman drama triangle The first Exploring Collective Liberation course And finally, some perennial resources: our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford). See our “What is facilitation?” podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources. We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript ALI This is Resist + Renew, KATHERINE the UK based podcast about social movements, SAMI what we’re fighting for, why and how it all happens. ALI The hosts of the show are KATHERINE Me, Kat. SAMI Me, Sami, ALI and me, Ali. SAMI I’m recording this now, baby! ALI Shit, it’s a podcast! SAMI Okay, so welcome back everybody to the toolbox. So, in this episode, we are going to talk about the different roles that people can play in conflict situation in quite an idealised way. So a person who’s harmed, a person who’s done some harm, or then a person who’s witnessed it. And this is a way of like thinking about conflict in general, but also like a tool that you can use. So, like always, we’re going to think about some pros and cons and like, do a little summary at the end. So, Katherine, what are we talking about? KATHERINE So thanks Sami. As you said, it’s a sort of triangle of: a person who has done harm, a person who has been harmed, and a bystander. And this is both a frame, so like a way of thinking about conflict in terms of who’s playing these different roles, and also a tool to reflect on conflict, either individually or in a group: about what might happen if you are in any of those roles. So the purpose of the tool is to highlight that there are a range of needs, they’re not all going to be the same whatever role you’re in. So for example, if you are the person who has witnessed harm, you might need to have someone check in with you. Or you might need to have some time to process what you’ve seen, or you might need something else. And then it also highlights the specific needs specific people might have in a group. So if conflict does emerge, you have a bit of a sense as a facilitator, what people in your group might need. Also just want to name that this idea of a triangle in conflict is often used in other scenarios. So the idea of a ‘Drama Triangle’ in maybe more specifically abusive settings, where you have the perpetrator, the rescuer, and the victim roles, is something that this this kind of model is drawing on. So I think, at this point, it’d be really helpful to maybe ground this in an example. So Ali, do you want to talk to us about a time when you’ve used this tool? ALI Sure. So in 2018, R+R ran a course for a weekend. And as it happens, both Katherine and Sami, were participants there. So that’s cool. So the course was called Exploring Collective Liberation. It was kind of all weekend exploring ideas around anti oppression, and specifically around anti racism. And at the beginning of the weekend, we did that whole thing of like saying, kind of, the intention for the space, kind of went into some variation of like, group agreements. And we also wanted to talk about how we would, what we would want if conflict did emerge in the space. And I don’t think it did, but it was a space for thinking about what we’d want. So basically, at the beginning of the other weekend, we just got people in groups, and each group had a piece of paper. And it said, What would you need if you were dot, dot, dot, and that dot, dot dot might be followed by ‘someone who caused harm,’ ‘someone who witnessed harm,’ or ‘someone who was harmed.’ And then we just rotated those bits of paper around. And it was just a good way to Yeah, as, as we’ve said already about this, this tool is just about thinking, like, what needs are there, everybody in these positions will have needs. And it’s helpful to like, surface them from the beginning and think, what might what might we want to do about conflicts if it were to happen. So that’s what we did. SAMI Can I maybe add a add a thing on there? I, [laughs] I can’t remember if this is something that we did it at that weekend. And but I’ve also, I definitely remember having experienced a variant of it, where there’s two kind of questions. So there’s one which is like: ‘What would you need as a person inhabiting this role?’ And then like a follow up question, which is like, ‘What would you need from this role as somebody else?’ Whether it was one of the other two roles potentially. So like, kind of making sure you explicitly think both as the person in this role and around the person with this role: what are the needs. And it’s sometimes I guess, covered, depending on what you say, just by the first one, but maybe that’s another way of thinking about it. ALI Cool. So that’s a bit of a explanation, an example of this tool frame, to someone want to give us some strengths that they think this this has? KATHERINE Yeah, I can start. I think, for me, one of the strengths of this role is thinking about conflict and the roles in conflict and what we need, from a place where you might be in a bit more of a settled emotional state. So rather than trying to work out what you need in the heat of a conflict, giving the group some time to reflect, can just give a little bit of space to needs rather than, rather than not giving any space because you’re right in the moment of it. ALI Nice. I think the strength of this tool is that it kind of forces you to think about what, what it would be like for you to be in any of these different roles, and all of us tend – are likely to have been in any of these roles at different times. But we often don’t want to think about what like the possibility of ever causing harm and asking yourself to think about that and asking yourself, like, what would you need in that time. I think it’s a useful exercise, especially for that part. But I think all of it is useful to like, recognise that the that you can occupy any of these, these positions. SAMI Yeah, I think it’s like a very, it’s a, it’s got like an inherently humanising frame right. Like it, it links back to the conversations that we had a number of episodes ago, around, like transformative justice, punishment. And like, I think one thing that comes up a lot, when you talk to, like, transformative justice practitioners, like go to a workshop, things like that, like one of the most common ideas is like anybody is a person that is capable of doing harm. And like, that’s a really important tenet, to like, get in your head. And so like, and this is quite a gentle way of bringing that to people, rather than just like, grabbing a mic and running up to them and be like, What would you do when you harm people? Where do you get to harm people tell me about harming people. Like it’s a quite a nice way into it. KATHERINE And I guess, like one other strength is that this tool can kind of help you explore that you might be in more than one of these roles at different times. So it’s also that possibility of moving between roles, and that that can happen even within the same conflict, right. So you might have done something that was harmful to someone else, whilst at the same time also feeling harmed, and helping you hold the complexity of those roles and the different needs that you might have, depending on what’s going on in the moment. ALI Yeah, that is a weakness, that it doesn’t do that. So I think it could be as a strength and a weakness. KATHERINE Maybe it’s both? Eliciting the point that you can have things happen more than one at a time. SAMI Complexity! Do we, do we think it’s true that because it says this tool can help you explore that you could be more in more than one of those roles at different times. So I guess, I mean, I guess it depends on how you interpret it, right? Like, it is, I’d say, as a frame, it inherently positions, those roles as not overlapping. And obviously, you can use the opportunity to highlight like, with any frame, you can use the opportunity to highlight, ‘Obviously, this is a reductive summary of the world. And things don’t happen like this normally: it’s not true that there’s necessarily like all of these three roles.’ For example, maybe there’s two of you in a room, whoever, like there’s not three of you. Or, like, maybe there are these overlapping roles, whatever. But I’d say I’m not sure I’d say that it is a it is a strength of the tool that it does that because the tool doesn’t do that it’s a thing that you could do in spite of the tool, I’d say, rather than built into it when using that frame as a tool. Do people agree? ALI I think, I think the difference is is one tool helps you think you I as an individual could occupy any of those three roles at different times. And then the tool, like, segments them. And a weakness of it is that what Katherine said is like, actually, I could be in many, all three of those roles at the same time. And that and that’s a tool plus is to go beyond. SAMI Yeah. Nice. It’s like intra versus inter that that distinction, right, like whether it’s within t

    20 min
  6. Sex worker solidarity in practice (Elio from SWARM)

    29/01/2022

    Sex worker solidarity in practice (Elio from SWARM)

    Season 2 episode 10 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we interview Elio. They organise with SWARM (a UK-based collective founded and led by sex workers who believe in self-determination, solidarity and co-operation) and are a branch organiser for United Voices of the World (UVW, a grassroots trade union of low paid, migrant & precarious workers and we fight the bosses for dignity and respect through direct action on the streets and through the courts!). “Our focus is less on convincing the outside world that sex workers deserve dignity, and [more on] providing dignity to sex workers” “Urgency will never end…but what might end is your capacity to be able to respond” – Elio Show notes, links SWARM: community building, community resourcing Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About The Swedish Model (aka The Nordic Model) New Resource: ‘How We Ran A Mutual Aid Fund’ UVW sex worker organising: helping to organise sex workers as workers The United Sex Workers branch of UVW Strippers union United Voices of the World (UVW) wins landmark legal victory proving strippers are ‘workers’, not independent contractors Decriminalised Futures: popular education, arts Their Lady of the Night School The Decrim Futures archive includes both recording from their 2019 conference, and also videos from the “We can build a different world” event The Decriminalised Futures exhibition at the ICA in London, running from 15 Feb to 22 May 2022 Some other projects: Decrim Now, a campaign group pushing for the full decriminalisation of sex work The Dialtone Project, giving old phones you don’t need to the sex workers who do Volunteering with the English Collective of Prostitutes You can buy a copy of the acclaimed Revolting Prostitutes book And finally, the most succint “political outlooks on sex work” meme out there: We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript ALI This is Resist Renew, KATHERINE the UK based podcast about social movements, SAMI what we’re fighting for, why and how it all happens. ALI The hosts of the show are KATHERINE Me, Kat. SAMI Me, Sami, ALI and me, Ali. SAMI I’m recording this now, baby! ALI Shit, it’s a podcast! SAMI So, welcome everybody to the resist renew podcast, where we are joined here today by Elio. Do you want to say a little hello before I introduce you, Elio? ELIO a little Hello. Hello. Sorry, that was really… Hello! That’s a big hello. Oh, it’s multiple hellos of different sizes, shapes and sizes. SAMI Lots of variety: people can pick their favourite. Elio is a person who organises with SWARM, which is a UK based collective founded by sex workers who believe in self determination, solidarity and cooperation, and is also branch organiser with United Voices of the World, which is a grassroots trade union of low paid migrant and precarious workers that fight the bosses for dignity and respect, through direct action, on the streets and through the courts, which is a sentence from the website that I just really wanted to read out; and is also involved in other groups and things! And was also giving us some very helpful advice for our muscles and physical bodies before we started the recording. So thank you for that. So, let’s get into the let’s get into the chat. Elio, what is that political contexts that like sex workers, and the groups that you’re linked in with are organising within like in the UK today? ELIO So I think the main context that’s the most important to think about in terms of the impact it has on sex workers is the legal context. So currently, in the UK, specifically, I’m speaking about England and Wales really is, sex work is not is partially criminalised. So selling the act of selling sex and buying sex, for the most part is you’re allowed to do it, it’s legal, it’s fine. No one’s gonna stop you from doing it. But a lot of the, I guess, the infrastructure around those things is criminalised. So, brothel keeping, which can you know, range from someone who owns a building and they have lots of people that work there and you don’t have to give them a percentage to work there or could be just two workers working together for safety in the most part, you know, so you’re not working alone, that counts as ‘brothel keeping’ and it’s criminalised. There’s laws around ‘control for gain’ which are criminalised, which is you know, meant to stop like, what is kind of understood as the ‘evil pimp’, with the workers that they’re exploiting, and they’re ‘controlling them for gain’; but often ends up affecting people like if a sex worker has a flat and they have a cleaner, or if they have a security guard or if they have a driver. Or if they have a partner whose rent they’re paying. All of these things kind of are criminalised under the laws affecting sex workers in the UK. So I think for most sex worker organisations and groups, the things that they’re really concerned with on there kind of the, in terms of an organising or political activity is around those laws and how they affect affect sex workers in a day to day way. And so that’s why the kind of key movement for sex workers is the movement for full decriminalisation: the removal of any criminal laws relating to the sex industry or to sex workers. Which just you know, give the addendum isn’t mean that like, exploitation is suddenly like, ‘Let’s go!’ Or like that rape is suddenly like, you know, legal; or like that violence towards sex workers is fine. It just says that for most sex workers, their day to day lives at work are going to be better if you remove the laws that criminalise their labour, and their work practices. So yeah, I don’t know, I think for me, that’s the main political context and sort of the broader, the broader scheme of things. And then I think in like a kind of more like, talking about the left or something-level, it’s, the political context is trying to like, over the last, I don’t know, few years? SWARM have, like, SWARM who are group I’m involved in, I think we said that the beginning, you know, have been around for over 10 years now. And over that time, you’ve seen a shift in like, I wasn’t involved 10 years ago, but you’ve seen a shift in how people think about and talk about sex work and sex workers on the left, and there used to be an increased level of hostility. And now you’re seeing that sex workers are welcomed into more political groups, understood as being part of movements, often understood as being like at the sharp end of like, a lot of criminalization and a lot of laws and the ways in which sex workers are impacted is, you know, a bit of a ‘canary in the coal mine’ as people like to say, of how other groups and other networks and other people are going to be affected. And so there’s a I think, a lot stronger connection to sex work and to sex workers, as being movements to like, organise around. So I think in terms of the political context that sex workers are organising in, that’s really key: this like shifting attitude towards recognising sex workers as comrades rather than as like, ‘victims out in the cold who kind of we try and ignore because it’s a complicated issue.’ Yeah, and that’s my answer. SAMI That’s a solid answer. I like it. And so it sounds, so I think, what’s what’s coming across to me in that is that, like, sex work is like the like the sex worker struggle, I guess, for want of a better way of phrasing it, is like really embedded, and like linked to a lot of the other struggles that like the left is more recognised as organising within. And, and so like, I think part of the reason (this is my take, and maybe not necessarily that useful) but like, part of the reason that I think there has been a lot of like a larger increase in sex worker solidarity on like ‘the left’, I think it’s partly to do with the work that like SWARM and its previous instantiation, or whatever of like, Sex Workers Open University did in terms of like, doing a lot of like, link building with a lot of other groups. But I think is also because people are like seeing sex work as like, in a really practical sense, just linked in with other struggles, like I do a lot of stuff around like immigration raids, and it’s hard to talk about immigration rates without like thinking about like, like high profile immigration raids on brothels, because like, it’s just so often one of the most visible aspects of like, immigration enforcement. And I think that’s true of loads of stuff. Like if you work on homelessness, if you’re work on drug use, if you work on migration, if you work on whatever. Like, there’s just such clear links with, like, the struggles that like sex workers are living within, and so much of that is linked to criminalisation. ELIO Yeah, definitely. I mean, that’s partly why I’m, like sex work organising, or politics of solidarity with sex workers is, you know, really the, the frame through which I operate a lot. Because if you look at that, you see how it connects to all of the things; and like, I’m not saying that, you know, organising around housing rights doesn’t mean you like, they have to think about migration, or you have to think about gender, you have to think about work and stuff, like, you know. I think any issue of this kind can lead you to see all those connections between different things. But for me, sex work, sex worker organising is such a, as a central site for the ways in which so much of that stuff all connects up. And it’s why it’s so important to organise on those issues, or to centre sex workers of, you know, various different experiences in the kind of organising or politics that you do. Because if you establish better conditions for sex

    1h 4min
  7. Toolbox: Safer spaces policies

    22/01/2022

    Toolbox: Safer spaces policies

    Season 2 episode 9 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about safer spaces policies, as a tool that groups use for a variety of reasons. ‘Safer spaces policies can create a void that people will then fill with punitive approaches to difficulty, difference and conflict’ Show notes, links After a callout for safer spaces agreements, a few groups kindly offered to have their agreements shared, to give you some examples: AFem2014 policy + explainer + glossary (though the event wasn’t without issues: see this write-up and another write-up) SWARM conference in 2019 Sisters Uncut Young FOE Scotland has a longer safer spaces agreement,  a more concise policy, and they will also sometimes make group agreements or smaller policies built on these too for specific events Iconiq Academy’s braver spaces agreement A few other resources that we mentioned in the episode: Mainstreams and margins The distinction between calling in and calling out Perennial resources: our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford). See our “What is facilitation?” podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources. We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript ALI This is Resist Renew, KATHERINE the UK based podcast about social movements, SAMI what we’re fighting for, why and how it all happens. ALI The hosts of the show are KATHERINE Me, Kat. SAMI Me, Sami, ALI and me, Ali. SAMI I’m recording this now, baby! ALI Shit, it’s a podcast! KATHERINE Welcome to today’s episode of the toolbox, we’re going to be looking at the safer spaces policies today. This is a tool that groups can create: we’re going to be finding out what they are, talking about the pros and cons of using a safer spaces policy and sharing our top take-aways. Sami, do you want to tell us a little bit about what safer spaces policies are? SAMI I would love to Katherine! So I think safer spaces policies are often some kind of like written document or some kind of agreement. Often around the topic of like resisting societal oppressions, and they will name like, often the beliefs of like a group or a space and some intentions to resist these societal impressions. And sometimes mentioning what they think those versions of societal oppression are, for clarity, that aren’t going to be like, welcome in the space in whatever way they mean. And sometimes they will include some bit about what they’ll do to like, actually resist the societal oppressions. Not always. And I guess maybe there’s a distinction to make here between like something that is like more of a policy, which is like, ‘this is what we think and blah, blah, blah,’ and maybe more something that’s like a process, which is like, ‘we’ll actually do this or handle these situations in this way.’ So that’s like one distinction to draw out now. Ali, do you wanna nuance that up? ALI Oh, God, pressure. So safer spaces. It’s a bit of a weird term if you haven’t been around it much. So a bit of background as to why it’s called that. Previously, people used to talk about creating “safe spaces,” as in places that people will feel comfortable to share things and they won’t get a deal with oppression and stuff. But because that’s not possible, because we live in the real world, we try and mitigate against oppressions, rather than making them completely safe. So safer. There are variations: some people have come up with the term braver spaces, which is, again, about showing up and dealing with things as they arise rather than creating safety. So a bit about why we are talking about safer spaces, safer spaces policy in a season about conflict. That’s because often conflicts within groups relate to both societal oppressions and how they are replicated in our spaces. And/or conflict can stem from the uses of policies and bureaucracy. E.g. people will say, “you did this thing, and that’s against the rule, therefore, we’re going to punish for you, or make you do this thing because of that.” And so policies might end up replicating punitive justice. But, Sami, do you want to tell us an example of a safer spaces policy that you’ve been around? SAMI Yeah, sure. So I was involved in a crew of people that was organising an anarchist feminist conference in London in 2014. And I was part of the crew that was trying to work out like how we wanted to handle this topic of like, safer spaces within this one day event, basically. And so what we thought that it would be useful to do is so – people, people started that process of like writing what is maybe what you could think of like a ‘standard’ safer spaces policy, where it’s like, ‘here are some versions of societal oppression, we think these are bad, and we don’t think people should replicate those in our space.’ And then we were like, ‘I don’t actually think this is very useful for people. Like, I don’t think this is actually going to help anyone do anything. And I don’t think this is really going to provide much to actually resist the sight of societal oppression.’ So what we tried to do was shift it a little bit into more of like a process, we were like, what did we think people would actually need to be able to resist those oppressions and so and then use that to identify what some interventions could be. So we were like, maybe if you don’t want to raise something in a group don’t in a in a in a in a workshop directly, but you want it to be raised, maybe that’s one you can tell and they can raise stuff for you. Or like maybe we should have specific spaces to support people to be able to raise stuff at different points throughout the day. And so, like, added these different things in so that people could actually try and solve stuff. And we did that because we thought that maybe just having a safer space is for policy on its own, which is kind of a quite a common thing, felt quite limited. And, and I guess that’s gonna lead into when we think about strengths and weaknesses, and things like that. Because I think probably, TL;DR these are the kind of things which when done well are good. And when done not well probably aren’t good, probably like all things. So who, who wants to start with some strengths? KATHERINE I can, I think one, one of the strengths of a safer spaces policy is that it can name the values of a group or space. And if you’re a new person who maybe has never been to that group before, seeing these stated somewhere, clearly, for example, on the group’s website, can really help you judge maybe whether or not you want to go along, whether you want to work with that group, join that group, for example; and can give a good indicator of the group’s awareness of what kind of oppression exists in the world and what they are trying to work against in their space or work to resist, as Sami framed it. What are other strengths of this tool? ALI Yeah, and I think another strength: I guess, at its best, what safer spaces policies can do is provide structure to address replications of societal oppressions in your space. So there is a bit of a holding for that, that, you know, you can turn to and as Katherine said, this, like, named that this is the values and intentions of the space. And we’re going to do something about it. SAMI Yeah, and I think we talked, we talked quite a lot, I think in episode one, if I remember correctly, around, like the importance of like, clarity of language, when we talk about things like this, and sometimes what people will use as, like these kinds of documents, like safer spaces, policies for is to like outline: ‘When we say, racism, we mean, these types of things. And we don’t mean, some things that may get called racism in society, like anyone referring to race. That’s not what we count as racism,’ whatever. And or, for example, what we what counts as, when we talk about we want to do stuff to like, repair harms, what do we mean by harm, so they can provide a space that really have clarity of terms, which can smooth future conversations about stuff. ALI So those are some of the strengths. What do people think about some weaknesses of safer spaces policies? SAMI I can start with my main one, it was, you alluded to it at the start Ali, which is around like, how safe spaces policies can link in with like punitive approaches within groups. I think, a thing that I often see as a limitation of having these like safer spaces policies, when they are more of a policy, and they don’t really, aren’t really backed up by any form of process, is what can happen is people have flagged to them, ‘You should do something, if you see there is like something that you would deem like, like realising operate like a, an operation, in service of racism in the space’ or whatever, like, ‘You should do something about that.’ But if you don’t give them guidance for what to do, then they will fall back on what the norms are for how things should be dealt with, and how you should deal with difficult situations, which often a lot of the things that people are drawing from is punitive frameworks, because that’s what we use in school. That’s what we use in, in people’s work and all this kind of stuff. And so you can create a void that people will then fill with punitive approaches to difficulty, difference and conflict. And so I think that can create difficulties. And those can be amended by making sure that you don’t provide that vacuum by trying to be clear about like, what are the ways that you will actually deal with stuff? And how, what kind of outcomes do you want, if you don’t want punishment to be the default response. What are the responses that you wan

    20 min
  8. Youth-led climate organising (with Youth 4 Climate Leeds)

    15/01/2022

    Youth-led climate organising (with Youth 4 Climate Leeds)

    Season 2 episode 8 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we interview Nell, Martha and Naomi from Youth 4 Climate Leeds. We talk about shifting tactics from just strikes, working in solidarity with other groups, “de-diversification”, and navigating being a group during a pandemic! “Both the cause and the effects of climate change is interlinked with racial justice” – Nell “There is sometimes an ethic within activist circles like, ‘I can change the world by myself.’ And then you end up just taking on so much work and it just becomes ridiculous. Like, I remember like, it must have been early 2020 and I was going to three meetings a week all in different places” – Martha Show notes, links Youth 4 Climate Leeds Twitter (@yleedsuk), Instagram (@youth4climate_leeds) and Facebook. You can find links to school strike groups across the country on the UK Student Climate Network website. We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there’s always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe! Transcript ALI This is Resist Renew, KATHERINE the UK based podcast about social movements, SAMI what we’re fighting for, why and how it all happens. ALI The hosts of the show are KATHERINE Me, Kat. SAMI Me, Sami, ALI and me, Ali. SAMI I’m recording this now, baby! ALI Shit, it’s a podcast! SAMI Welcome, everybody to the Resist + Renew podcast. We are here today with a number of people from Youth 4 Climate Leeds. Youth 4 Climate Leeds was a group that was founded in early 2019 as part of the Global Youth Strike for Climate, and Fridays For the Future movement, and is run by young people. And why don’t you introduce yourselves? Martha, do you want to go first? MARTHA Hi, I’m Martha. I’m part of Youth 4 Climate Leeds. I’ve been part of this group since 2019. And obviously, we’re all incredibly passionate about climate justice and social justice as part of the group. SAMI Great: Naomi? NAOMI Yeah, so. Hi, I’m Naomi. I’m part of Youth 4 Climate Leeds as well. So I’ve been kind of involved with the climate movement more formally with like different organisations and companies for a while. And then in like, early March 2021, I’ve become more involved with like the organising. So ever since then, I’ve been organising weekly. SAMI Amazing, good stuff. And Nell. NELL Yeah, I’m Nell. I’ve been involved in Youth 4 Climate Leeds since March 2019. So early days, and and it’s been a big part of my life ever since. SAMI Great! Okay, so starting us off. What is the political context that you’re organising in? Could you tell us a little bit about that? MARTHA So Youth 4 Climate Leeds is basically part of this global reaction to governments’ lack of lack of policymaking towards this incredible crisis that we face at the moment. And specifically, the strikes are obviously, they’re inspired by the wider Fridays For Future movement that began with Greta Thunberg. So it’s all inspirational from that. And we, we strike about every few months, and we tried to put pressure on the government to make policy that deals with climate change, and to empower young people within Leeds within that context as well. SAMI Great, thank you. And so could you maybe say a little bit about – You said, I can’t remember exactly the wording but something around like resistance to like government inaction, or whatever. Could you say a little bit about, like, that, and how you understand that? Like, what, what do you think, what do you think’s going on? Like, why do you feel like this, the kind of stuff you’re doing is a good, a good tactic? MARTHA So our kind of ways that we organise are through civil disobedience. And we encourage young people to strike from education in a kind of disturbance, but a self inflicted disturbance. So a lot of the criticisms that can come to nonviolent, like nonviolent direct action is that you’re inflicting it on other people. But this is a self sacrificing move, because we are so frustrated with the government and how climate change just doesn’t seem to be at the top of their priority, no matter how much talking they do. I mean, if you look at the facts in terms of climate change, and where we are now, I mean, we are currently in the sixth mass extinction, a third of coral reefs have have died out already. It’s an incredibly important issue. And our lives depend on it. So we’ll strike and we’ll carry on striking until the government decide to really take it seriously. And that’s in the context also of COP26 happening later this year. And with wanting to really get something material out of that, because the agreements made so far like the Paris 2015 Accord, they didn’t go far enough. So we’ll keep on pushing until we get what we want. ALI Absolutely. Yeah. You mentioned, like, some of the scale of the crisis around climate, the sixth mass extinction that’s happening that’s obviously, with the latest IPCC reports, it’s becoming more and more clear that we’re heading in a really bad direction. And anyone feel free to come in on this one, like, what do you see as the cause of the crisis? Like, is it just like you said that governments aren’t doing anything? Or what, what else is like, underlying the climate crisis for for you all in your group? NELL Firstly, I think it’s like this idea of like the selfishness and greed that’s been perpetuated. Like, the wealth, I don’t know the wealth, like greedy. And everyone’s, I think there’s a lot of selfishness going on, like even people in like, first world in inverted commas or like Western countries talk about the climate crisis, and then still expect so much like material goods and digital goods. Without realising that, like, if we, if we, like, in this ideal world that we’re fighting for, we wouldn’t have all this stuff, we wouldn’t have, like, I don’t think we’d have a laptop each, we wouldn’t have all this equipment that we’re doing this podcast with, I wouldn’t be in this, like, nice University room with all these nice amenities. But, you know, in the, in an ideal world, we would, we’d still be happy and healthy and have the things that we need, we just have less of these luxuries that we have today because they should be given to people who don’t have anything to sort of, like, even at the playing field. And the other thing I think is – I can’t remember what the question was. I was gonna go on about the media, though. Like how, like a cause of the climate crisis, I think, is that people are being kind of, I don’t know, people don’t believe it. Because, like, I don’t know, like tabloid media, controlled by I dunno Rupert Murdoch and stuff like that, and also Facebook. Have part, they’ve invested like billions in sort of, like, sort of, you know, creating questions and quite, you know, creating phrasing and wording that makes people question the climate crisis. And so they could, you know, they, I think they came up with the term ‘global warming’, because warming’s like a nice word has nice connotations, they put a lot of money into sort of psychological stuff. And using wording that makes people question its legitimacy as a scientific fact. So even today, people think, you know, they think there’s a scientific debate. I’ve thought that people who think, Oh, well, it’s not proven, you know, scientists or, you know, they don’t they don’t agree on it. And it’s like, no, they do, like 99% of them agree. So those are the two things, I think: the media, and then just like this sort of selfish attitude that we have. MARTHA Yeah, I would just adding on to the next point, that the reason a lot of the reason we’re here, because we’re all of the country’s economies, well, the vast majority of them are based on neoliberalism, which has just this constant desire for growth, and to be, to build more and to make more money. And it prioritises, as Boris Johnson said the other day, wage growth over life expectancy, and and cancer and cancer recovery rates. It’s it’s this whole system, which is completely rigged to keep on making tonnes of money and, and ruin the environment. Because the environment: you cannot put a price on it. But that is the that’s the exact issue, that you can’t put a price on cutting down the tree, but you can make a profit from it. So when you’re when you’re in this economy that rewards irresponsible behaviour, you’re going to end up in a climate crisis and here, and here we are. And we’ve been, and then they talk about how they can balance solving the climate crisis with, with neoliberalism, as if we haven’t been trying to do that for the last 30 years and completely failed. We’ve com-, we’ve completely failed, our emissions are set to rise by 12% in the next 10 years. So this, this, you cannot have solving the climate crisis and, and capitalism, unfortunately. Because if it has a constant desire for growth on a lim- on a planet with limited resources, then you can’t balance the two. So it’s, the issue is based around around an economic system that just does not coincide with ecological justice, unfortunately. SAMI Yeah, I think that’s, I think those are all some really good points. I think the thing that economists talk about is perverse incentives, right? Like living in a structure which basically encourages behaviour, which is ecocidal, and doesn’t encourage the kind of behaviours and ways of relating to each other, which would lead to a life, which is like still good and happy, but maybe with less stuff, like you were saying before. Or at least for some of us, probably we don’t need as much stuff as we have. Amazing, thank you. ALI Yeah, great. Thank you for that background. You’ve already mentioned a bit about like, what, what Youth 4 Climate group does in Leeds, but Naom

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The Resist+Renew podcast, where facilitators interview social movement organisers about their work and how they do it, along with a good chunk of geeking out about the different tools in our training toolbox.

Informações

  • Criado por
    Resist and Renew
  • Anos de atividade
    2020 - 2022
  • Episódios
    31
  • Classificação
    Explícito
  • Site do podcast
    Resist and Renew