Topline

Pavilion

The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in every week to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.

  1. Is This The End of Sales As We Know It? (CEO @ 1mind, Amanda Kahlow)

    HÁ 6 DIAS

    Is This The End of Sales As We Know It? (CEO @ 1mind, Amanda Kahlow)

    Amanda Kahlow raised $30 million to build AI sales agents that improve the buying experience. As the founder of 1mind and previously 6sense, she sits at the forefront of modern go to market strategy. In this episode, Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman sit down with Amanda to discuss the reality of AI in the sales motion; she explains how Superhumans (1mind's AI Agents) handle everything from top of funnel enterprise pipeline generation to acting as sales engineers on live demos. The conversation covers the technical hurdles of building high performing AI agents, why she believes buyers will soon demand to interact with AI over human sellers, and what revenue leaders must do to prepare their teams for a radically different future. Key Takeaways: According to Amanda, the speed and accuracy of application specific AI will soon eclipse traditional human selling, as Amanda Kahlow predicts that "When buyers realize their answer is going to be more accurate and more empathetic, they're going to demand to talk to an AI over a human." The traditional role of the sales representative is facing total disruption, and Amanda Kahlow states clearly that in the future "I don't think there will be sellers... I think the best thing we can do for sellers and for the market right now is to be f***ing honest about what is coming for them." Product development for revenue technology must prioritize the end customer over internal efficiency, a philosophy Amanda Kahlow emphasizes by noting that "If I can create a better buying experience, I believe the rest will fall into place... if that's not a better buying experience, I want to be a hard no to it." Connect with the Hosts & Guests: Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/  Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/  Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/  Guest: Amanda Kahlow - https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandakahlow/ Topline is more than a Podcast: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter  Tune into Topline on YouTube, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.youtube.com/@TOPLINE-Media Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters (Audio Version): 01:00 Introducing Amanda Kahlow and 1mind 02:27 What are Go To Market Superhumans? 06:50 Managing AI Latency and Models 09:53 AI: More Trustworthy Than Human Sellers 15:40 Building the Future of GTM Tech 22:25 The Next Three Years of GTM 35:16 Closing Six Figure Enterprise Deals 40:01 Will Sales Reps Exist in Two Years? 50:00 Collapsing the Sales Assembly Line 54:08 Adapting to the AI Sales Era 58:36 The Autonomous Context Graph Future

    1h 1min
  2. Why Intercom Destroyed Its Predictable SaaS Revenue

    22 DE MAR.

    Why Intercom Destroyed Its Predictable SaaS Revenue

    Intercom gave up $60 million in contracted seat-based ARR to bet the entire company on an AI agent named Fin. The result? They passed $400 million in total ARR, with Fin driving over $100 million in revenue and 35% growth. In this episode, Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman break down what went into this massive turnaround. The conversation starts with the problem: the SaaS market cap dropping by $600 billion, and how this creates an urgent need for structural pivots. The hosts discuss the financial reality of agentic business models, why historic 90% SaaS gross margins are disappearing, and how scaling compute costs will impact your GTM strategy. The episode wraps up with tactical advice on managing board support, handling leadership pushback, and executing a burn-the-boats transition before your legacy product-market fit evaporates. Link to Intercom CEO Eoghan McCabe's essay: https://ideas.fin.ai/p/there-is-exactly-one-way-that-saas Key Episode Takeaways:  - Shifting to an AI-first product fundamentally changes your financial model, requiring exponential revenue generation to offset massive compute costs, which Sam Jacobs points out by stating, "You are trading a good business for a worse business... you have to grow at exponential rates as an agentic business because your gross margins are so much lower than SaaS." - Comfort is the enemy of innovation for established software companies, and survival often requires a massive operational reset, as AJ Bruno explains when noting that "Intercom had five straight quarters of zero net new ARR growth" before they took drastic action. - The cost of human capital is rising as top performers require heavy compute access to execute their roles effectively, a reality Asad Zaman highlights by predicting that "Every recruiter at STA will probably have $10K, $20K, $30K worth of inference calls in the next couple of years... That's like a mini assistant for each person." Connect with the Hosts: Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/   Topline is more than a YouTube Channel:  -Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter -Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast -Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Intro and Episode Overview  01:21 Intercom 400M ARR Turnaround  03:41 The Massive SaaS Market Cap Reset  05:27 Executing a Burn the Boats Pivot  09:05 Gross Margins of AI vs Legacy SaaS  12:00 Defending App Commoditization  18:16 Returning to Founder Mode  27:29 Why You Need Full Board Support  32:26 The Danger of Comfortable Growth  36:31 The Real Cost of AI Inference  42:27 Rising Talent Compute Economics  49:25 Tracking the Right Churn Metrics  52:38 Shifting GTM to Vertical SaaS

    55 min
  3. Do SaaS Teams ACTUALLY Need AI?

    15 DE MAR.

    Do SaaS Teams ACTUALLY Need AI?

    Sam Jacobs (CEO, Pavilion), AJ Bruno (CEO, QuotaPath), and Asad Zaman (CEO, Sales Talent Agency) debate exactly how to handle team members resisting AI adoption. When to leave them, when to nudge them, and when to fire them. The discussion highlights real-world data, including how leading companies reach the top decile of AI adoption and the mechanics of running a 24-hour, four-squad AI hackathon to force experimentation. We also cover a critical performance heuristic from the past CPO of LaunchDarkly: if your team cannot execute simple tasks in a single day, you are falling behind. The conversation covers change management for revenue leaders, how to integrate AI into your daily enterprise pipeline generation, and why optimizing your GTM strategy means making hard decisions about personnel who refuse to adapt. Key Takeaways: >Driving AI adoption requires clear communication and rewarding good behavior, but AJ Bruno warns that leaders will ultimately have to "leave behind a handful of folks that are just not going to get on the bus, that aren't getting on board." >When implementing new AI tools across your teams, Asad Zaman notes that expectations must scale with seniority, stating "I have more tolerance as I move lower in the org and less tolerance at the higher levels." >AI should be treated as a creative partner for deeper analysis rather than a shortcut for unedited output, a reality Sam Jacobs emphasizes by warning "If you are just the pass through, you will be fired." Connect with the Hosts Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/  Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/  Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/   Topline is more than a YouTube Channel:  Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter  Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast  Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:35 The Question: Employees resisting AI 01:39 Convert them or fire them? 02:07 Running internal AI hackathons 03:54 How CEOs drive adoption 05:08 Mapping tasks to AI agents 06:27 The "Robot Layer" in emails 07:40 Claire Vo's anti-dinosaur framework 08:07 The One-Day Execution Heuristic 12:52 Why you should be scared 14:30 Elevating junior AI talent 16:35 Reducing 3 hours of work to 45 mins 18:54 Summary: How to uplevel the org 21:09 The tension between speed and depth 21:52 Pass-through? Fired! FIRED!!!

    24 min
  4. This is How Tech Executives Will Get Hired in 2026

    8 DE MAR.

    This is How Tech Executives Will Get Hired in 2026

    Is your traditional SaaS experience becoming obsolete? In this new 20-minute rapid-fire format, Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman tackle a specific listener question: How does a senior operator transition from a legacy B2B SaaS role into a high-growth AI company? The market is shifting toward a meritocracy where recent hands-on capability outweighs decades of tenure on a CV. The hosts break down exactly how to position yourself for companies like CoreWeave and EliseAI. They discuss why hiding your lack of technical engineering skills is a mistake, how to build a portfolio of "work product" using low-code tools like Replit and Claude, and why being able to articulate the failures of AI models is actually the strongest signal of fluency. Key Takeaways: - Stop relying on a static resume and start building a portfolio of practical applications. As Sam Jacobs notes, the hiring landscape has shifted so that "your work product needs to speak for itself... demonstrating that you're capable of working with these tools, not theoretically, but practically through your conversations that you're having with hiring managers." - We are entering a career reset where agility beats seniority. Asad Zaman warns that "whenever there is a platform shift... the value of experience goes down a little bit," which creates a massive opportunity for younger leaders to "move up faster if you present in a very compelling manner because people are not looking at titles the same way." - Cultural currency matters as much as technical skill. To be taken seriously by founders in this space, you must consume information where they do. As Asad Zaman puts it, "If they find out that you're not on AI Twitter or AI X, I think they will think you're not a serious person... the information is not gonna be found in these old school channels." Connect with the Hosts: Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/   Topline is not JUST a YouTube Channel! Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack   Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:58 Viewer Q: Transitioning to AI 02:48 Show Work Product, Not Just CVs 04:36 Applying SaaS Principles to AI 05:58 The AI-First Mentality 08:58 Articulating AI Limitations 11:30 The Meritocracy Shift 13:55 Unexpected AI Wins 21:27 Staying Culturally Relevant 24:29 Summary: How to Get Hired

    28 min

  5. 1 DE MAR.

    Citrini Needs to Chill (but SaaS DOES Need to Change)

    Citrini Research claims AI agents will replace white-collar jobs by 2028, triggering a massive economic crash (and repricing of SaaS stocks). Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman analyze the validity of this thesis and the immediate impact on enterprise valuation multiples. The discussion moves to the practical realities of the innovator's dilemma, specifically how legacy software companies must cannibalize their own revenue to survive. They cover strategies for GTM transformation, the loss of pricing power in traditional SaaS, and why Gong's pivot to "Chief Revenue Architect" signals a deeper identity crisis in the market. Key Takeaways: * The hardest part of adapting to AI is destroying your current margins. Sam Jacobs argues that leaders get emotionally attached to ARR, noting that "the hardest part of the innovator's dilemma is price... the only way to get out of it is to... go towards a worse business" in the short term. * Pivoting sounds great on paper, but is far harder in practice. Asad Zaman highlights the operational difficulty of telling investors about the actual steps involved; e.g. "I'm going to do a reorg and I'm then going to change my strategy that's actually going to increase churn... That's a war at the board level." * Title changes don't fix structural issues. Asad Zaman and Sam Jacobs advise revenue leaders against accepting Gong's new "Chief Revenue Architect" title because "it's going to hurt your career moving forward... This sounds like you were demoted to rev ops to me." Your Hosts: Host: Sam Jacobs Host: AJ Bruno  Host: Asad Zaman Topline is more than a Podcast! Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter Watch on the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TOPLINE-Media Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack Chapters: 00:00 Intro 02:04 The Citrini Report Examined 07:05 Startups vs. Innovator's Dilemma 12:35 SaaS Valuation Repricing 15:29 Losing Pricing Leverage to AI 21:29 Is White Collar Work Dead? 25:10 Margin Compression Strategy 31:17 Restructuring Engineering Teams 35:09 Microsoft's Product Pivot 39:54 How AI Improves CEO Workflow 44:50 Gong's Chief Revenue Architect 51:17 Why the CRO Title Matters 55:14 AI Predictions Looking Ahead

    58 min

  6. 26 DE FEV.

    SPOTLIGHT: Raising $55M When You're Not "AI-Native" | Nick Turner, CEO @ Dreamdata

    Nick Turner, CEO of Dreamdata, joins Sam in this special episode of Topline Spotlight. They unpack a challenge many B2B leaders are facing right now: how do you raise capital in a market obsessed with AI when you're not an "AI-native" company? Nick shares his journey from CRO to CEO and what it was like stepping into the top job—only to immediately lead a $55M Series B raise in one of the toughest venture environments in recent history. After speaking with 73 investors in six weeks, he reflects on the realities of fundraising today, investor skepticism around revenue durability, and why profitable, efficient growth still wins. Nick brings nearly 20 years of commercial leadership experience scaling martech companies from Seed and Series A to $75M in revenue. Now leading Dreamdata—a Copenhagen-based B2B marketing attribution and activation platform—he's helping marketers prove what's working and take action on it.

    25 min

  7. 22 DE FEV.

    "SaaS is Dead!" - So What Do We Do Now?

    Over the course of a few days, $300 billion in market cap was wiped out from public SaaS companies. Looking at the ten most notable US publicly traded SaaS companies over the last six months, they have lost upwards of $600 billion. The public markets are signaling that the classic VC-funded SaaS model is under massive pressure to show rapid AI integration and tangible revenue growth. This episode examines the fallout of the SaaS market correction and what it means for go-to-market operators. We discuss the shift away from legacy system of record platforms toward agile, AI-native solutions that eat labor budgets. The conversation covers how to adjust your GTM strategy if you are not growing at AI rates, why cash flow is now king over growth at all costs, and how to build a resilient enterprise pipeline generation engine. Finally, we share predictions on which SaaS stocks might bounce back from the dip. Key Takeaways Companies failing to match AI-driven growth expectations are facing severe valuation resets from public markets, as AJ Bruno explains that "The argument you're hearing is AI will replace SaaS... that's the lazy argument... What AI is doing is it's compressing the time value of money." Software businesses unable to achieve hypergrowth must pivot to strict operational efficiency, with Sam Jacobs noting, "If you're generating $50 million growing 25% and you're just breaking even, I need you to either grow faster or be more profitable." Go-to-market professionals at legacy software companies have a limited opportunity to pivot their careers toward emerging technology, as Asad Zaman advises, "Right now the window is open... That window will get smaller and smaller as time grows by. So if you are not confident in your company, this is the time to make a shift and enter the new world." Connect with the Hosts & Guests: Host: Sam Jacobs  Host: AJ Bruno Host: Asad Zaman Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: Subscribe to Topline Newsletter. Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!   Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to the SaaS Collapse 07:12 Billions Wiped From SaaS Market Caps 10:44 Compressing the Time Value of Money 14:27 Why Revenue Growth Trumps All 20:56 The Threat of AI Inference Costs 25:17 Shifting Careers to the AI World 28:21 Entering the Slow Growth Movement 35:27 Building Long Term Craft Businesses 38:29 Winning the Long Brand Game 42:03 Founder Burnout and Pivot Challenges 48:24 Managing Investor Board Expectations 52:02 Reengineering for a Platform Shift 60:57 Public SaaS Stock Rebound Picks

    1h 5min

  8. 15 DE FEV.

    The Business Case for Robot Overlords (Or At Least Robots That Unload Trucks) | CEO AJ Meyer

    AJ Meyer, CEO of Pickle Robot, isn't betting on general-purpose humanoid robots. Instead, he's a believer in robots and Physical AI which solve specific, high-volume problems. AJ joins Sam and Asad to reveal how he recently secured a nine-figure enterprise contract and why "boring" logistics tasks are the gateway to mass adoption of robots. But with mass adoption's opportunities, so too are there new risks. AJ shares that while physical safety is an important consideration, the cybersecurity risk of a networked robot workforce is what needs the most attention right now. This and a ton more in this week's episode of Topline with Sam Jacobs (CEO @ Pavilion) and Asad Zaman (CEO @ Sales Talent Agency). Thanks for tuning in! Catch new episodes every Sunday Subscribe to Topline Newsletter. Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! Chapters: 00:00 Teaser and Introduction to AJ Meyer 02:53 The Convergence of Physical and Digital AI 05:50 Safety Constraints and the "Acrobat" Robot Disaster 09:19 Mobile Manipulation vs. General Purpose Humanoids 12:47 Cybersecurity Risks in Connected Robot Networks 18:52 AI Surveillance and Authoritarian Risks 28:01 Debunking the Myth of Unskilled Labor 34:54 The Moving Goalposts of AGI 38:19 Solving the Open World Generalization Problem 42:09 Why Foundation Models Need Systems Engineering 48:23 Designing Business Models for Enterprise and Mid-Market 53:20 The Nine-Figure "ChatGPT Moment" for Robotics 58:14 Transferring SaaS Go-To-Market Skills to Hardware 01:03:45 Taste and Judgment as Career Differentiators 01:07:50 Hiring Needs and Closing Thoughts

    1h 10min
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Sobre

The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in every week to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.

Informações

  • Criado por
    Pavilion
  • Anos de atividade
    2023 - 2026
  • Episódios
    237
  • Classificação
    Explícito
  • Copyright
    © 012671
  • Site do podcast
    Topline

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