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SEASON 1, EPISODE 4

‘I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct'

Mark Driscoll’s vision of manhood indelibly shaped Mars Hill culture. Drawing from his own difficult childhood story, Mark created an ideal for those searching for meaning and direction. Men responded enthusiastically. From “dad talks” about issues about sex, career and family to “holy anger” over a feminized church culture, he invited men into a stirring narrative where manning up meant passionately loving God and their families. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper digs deep into the mythic origin story that shaped Mark Driscoll’s ministry to men. He reveals Mark as far more than just an agent of chaos but a man deeply concerned for the health and spirituality of other men, intent on pastoring them toward flourishing. And as Driscoll’s particular brand of masculinity grew toxic, Cosper asks the poignant question, “Why do you stay when things get bad?” How do you reckon with the movement of the Spirit in your midst when your community begins to shatter? “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: "Dynamite" by Sandra McCracken Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E4

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53 min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 1

Who Killed Mars Hill?

In 2014, after more than a decade of tremendous growth and ministry, Mars Hill Church imploded with the resignation of its lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. Once a hub for those disenfranchised with cultural Christianity, Mars Hill’s characteristic “punk rock spirit” became its downfall as power, fame and spiritual trauma invaded the ministry. But how did things fall apart? Where did Mark Driscoll take a wrong turn? Who could be held responsible for the hurt and disillusionment that resulted? In this inaugural episode of “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill,” host Mike Cosper begins at the end, investigating the rubble of Mars Hill’s fall for answers. Meet Mark, the firebrand “cussing pastor” whose ministry of breaking conventions called men and women to transformation and whose rebellion touched a nerve with those inside and outside the church. Meet a church culture that considered relational fallout as simply part of the job. And, take a look in the mirror to ask why we keep doing this -- elevating leaders whose charisma outpaces their character. Loaded with piercing and poignant interviews, this episode invites you to release preconceived notions about this familiar story and listen afresh to a narrative that feels painfully relevant more than a decade later. Wonder why Christianity Today features stories like these? Stick around at the end of the episode as Kate Shellnut and Daniel Silliman discuss why talking about church culture and leadership matters. Read more at “If You See Something, Say Something” and Why We Report Bad News About Leaders. Here is the letter presenting formal charges against Mark Driscoll from 21 former Mars Hill pastors. Here is the letter from nine pastors who were serving in August of 2014, asking Mark Driscoll to step down from ministry and enter a restoration process. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: "Slow and Steady Wins the Race" by Pedro the Lion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E1

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54 min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 10

Demon Hunting

We are people built for wonder, spiritual creatures looking for spiritual footholds in a culture often devoid of belief in the supernatural. We long for miracles -- the defeat of sin and shame, displays of God’s power transforming our deepest pain. For some who attended Mars Hill, the instinct toward astonishment led them to Mark Driscoll’s charismatic deliverance ministry. In a world where belief is so often hard to come by, Mark claimed to have faith strong enough to move mountains and, literally, to cast out demons. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper asks the piercing question, “Where’s the line between the hand of God and a charismatic leader?” How do we know when our craving for astonishment is being manipulated? When do we accept the claims of someone speaking on God’s behalf? Using the lesser known Mars Hill “demon trials” as a backdrop, Cosper explores the Pentecostal origins of Driscoll’s deliverance ministry, examines the extra biblical rules that governed Mars Hill spiritual warfare, and considers our longing to hear from God and see him move in our midst. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Special thanks to Ben Vandermeer Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Time is a Lion” by Joe Henry Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E10

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1hr 4min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 5

The Things We Do To Women

Sex sells. It might be hard to imagine a church harnessing this popular marketing technique for church growth, but that’s exactly what Mark Driscoll did in Seattle in the early 2000s. Whether condemning the Western erosion of manhood or elevating women as Christian pornographic ideals, preaching from the Mars Hill pulpit mixed toxic cultural messages with biblical theology in the name of forming men, women, and families for God. And, like Mark’s campaign against diminished manhood, when sex sold in church, both men and women came up short. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper addresses the femininity, fear, and fantasy that fueled conversations around gender and womanhood at Mars Hill. With delicate care, he unpacks the reactionary stream of sexuality that emerged at Mars Hill and exposes the struggle for authority and power beneath Mark Driscoll’s classic sermons on womanhood and sex. Cosper explores what happens when words meant to protect women end up hurting them and how theology about headship and submission can create fear and shame when wielded by the wrong hands. If you’ve seen Mark’s famous viral videos or heard the sermon sound bytes, tune in to this episode for the fuller story. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Woman” by Jackie Hill Perry Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E5

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58 min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 2

Boomers, The Big Sort, and Really, Really Big Churches

In the mid-1950s, Rev. Robert Schuller began preaching in a drive-in movie theater in Southern California. He melded traditions like vestments with a theology of post-war optimism and self-esteem. As his ministry grew, guest preaching in his pulpit became a mark of celebrity achievement. Three decades after his drive-in movie days, Schuller would welcome a young Mark Driscoll to the microphone to speak. To understand the Mars Hill phenomenon, you have to understand how big churches developed in the boomer and Gen X years, how the franchising of churches led to homogenized congregational culture, and how pastors became spokesmen and CEOs. When Mark Driscoll arrived to preach at the Crystal Cathedral, he had already walked a ministry path paved by the likes of Schuller, Bill Hybels, and Rick Warren—leaders who dedicated significant time to demographic research as well as expository study. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper flips the tapestry of the Mars Hill story to expose the weaving of threads beneath. He explores how the identity of a church can become wrapped around one man and why a host of leaders might fall in step to protect him in order to save the institution. Here, you can read an interview with David Di Sabatino, director of Frisbee: The Life and Death of a Hippie Preacher. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Crush” by The Violet Burning Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E2

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56 min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 3

"You Read the Bible, Ringo?"

Church planting, even under the best of circumstances, always requires grit and determination. Planting in one of the most progressive cities in the US at the turn of the millennium required even more. But if Mark Driscoll struggled with anything in his ministry, it wasn’t a lack of will. The earliest days of Mars Hill were a whirlwind of activity – launching new campuses, preaching as many as seven times a Sunday, assimilating new people, and developing new ministries all at once. The church quickly proved to be a magnet for spiritual seekers of all kinds – eager Christians looking to build, apathetic Christians needing renewal, and non-Christians hearing the gospel in a new context. On this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, we take you inside that hive of activity to examine up close the ways God was at work. You’ll see Mark Driscoll not only as a preacher and a movement leader, but as a caring pastor. You’ll also see signs of volatility in Mark’s ministry. Tensions in the Young Leaders Network start to build and a pivot in Mark’s own convictions pushes them to their limits. Meanwhile, inside Mars Hill, a throwaway remark at a friendly dinner becomes the catalyst for intense, life-altering conflict. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Did I Tell You the Bullet’s Still There” by Bill Mallonee Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E3

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52 min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 7

State of Emergency

Church planting isn’t for the faint of heart. It requires a tenacity few pastors can fully anticipate when they set out. Healthy planting demands not only clarity of mission and relentless work, but practical partnership, wise counsel, and responsive governance to the changing needs that come with growth. From the church’s beginning, Mars Hill leadership committed to all of these -- a vision of Jesus as senior pastor with elders serving with “one vote each.” But somewhere along the line, the vision shifted. Absolutism and a muscular, aggressive form of governance took hold, a campaign led by Mark Driscoll in the name of church growth. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper pulls back the curtain to expose the inner workings of church governance at Mars Hill. Guided by careful research and hundreds of hours of interviews, Cosper plots out a story of church growth corrupted by power. Discover a Mark Driscoll you may never have met -- a young church planter with a vision for Seattle and for the world. Watch what happens when the friction between accountability and speed causes church planting efforts to combust. And see how prioritizing “reaching people for Jesus” can mask spiritual abuse without the proper checks and balances. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: "Return My Heart to My Chest" by Joe Day Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E7

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1hr 1min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 6

The Brand

Mark Driscoll rose to prominence in the early days of the Internet. Unlike his megapastor predecessors like Robert Schuller and Bill Hybels, Driscoll harnessed technology to build his brand and bypass cultural gatekeepers who might hinder or influence his success. He formed a talented media team that would expand his reach and, inadvertently, reinforce his ego through an online presence. Quickly though, his star rose too far, keeping him at arm’s length from the collaboration and counsel of those who could lend wisdom to his youthful, combustive pastoral ministry. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper breaks down how technology shaped the messaging and marketing of Mark Driscoll and how personal brand can isolate a leader even as it fuels a ministry’s growth. Cosper interviews broadly, from Mars Hill media team members to Collin Hansen of The Gospel Coalition, to investigate how narcissism grows, how theological movements birth new leaders, and why the church’s love affair with charisma and certainty demands we develop a better moral imagination. Rethink your admiration for celebrity pastors. Reevaluate your attraction to religious trends. And, reflect on your own willingness to stand “sola” when church becomes about something other than the Gospel. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Bang” by Moda Spira Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E6

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1hr 2min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 11

The Bobby Knight Problem

In 2006, Mark Driscoll met with a group of Seattle pastors who were worried about Mars Hill’s public witness. Mark had risen to prominence with pugilistic bravado, and local leaders expressed concern that his tone and language about women and, in this particular instance, pastors’ wives hurt the perception of the church in their largely unchurched city. Despite their best efforts to connect on common ground, the meeting’s leaders counted the event a failure. Remarkable success had isolated Mark from the average person on whom his words fell. His institution had insulated him from critique. The meeting revealed clearly that power protected Mark from accountability. Your pastor doesn’t need outsized fame and acclaim to fall prey to the seduction of power, and neither do you. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper looks to the world of sports to illustrate how power corrupts and how, when we abdicate our roles as gatekeepers for one another, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Step onto the basketball courts at Indiana University and behind the pulpit at Mars Hill to see how power becomes a strong drug that justifies abuse, keeps truth from speaking, and distances us from our shared humanity. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Additional Editing: Resonate Recordings and Matt Linder Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Anger” by Treva Blomquist Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E11

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58 min
SEASON 1, EPISODE 8

Bonus Episode: I Kissed Christianity Goodbye

A Bonus Episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Love it or hate it, if you grew up in a youth group after 1997, you probably had to reckon with Joshua Harris’s I Kissed Dating Goodbye, his treatise on dating and courtship. The book sold millions and made him, in Collin Hansen’s terms, an “evangelical boy wonder.”At 29 years old he became the lead pastor of a Maryland megachurch and a rising star in Sovereign Grace Ministries. But when that movement was torn apart by controversy, conflict, and accusations of a systemic cover-up of child abuse, he found himself reeling, unsure of his calling and convictions. He left ministry in 2015, and in 2019, announced that he no longer identified as a Christian. In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, we’ll explore Josh’s story as a contemporary of Mark Driscoll, someone who was his polar opposite in temperament, and who’s struggles in ministry led to a divergent outcome. We’ll talk about faith, doubt, and celebrity, and discuss how Christians might think about their own doubts and deconstruction, recognizing them as a normal part of the Christian life. Subscriptions to CT are one of the best ways to support this kind of journalism. If you want to help us continue doing this kind of work, consider joining today at orderct.com/marshill. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker and Mike Cosper Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Spirit (Keep On)” by Jeremy Casella Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

S1, E8

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1hr 5min

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