Risk! Engineers Talk Governance

Richard Robinson & Gaye Francis

Due Diligence and Risk Engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss governance in an engineering context.Richard & Gaye are co-directors at R2A and have seen the risk business industry become very complex. The OHS/WHS 'business', in particular, has turned into an industry, that appears to be costing an awful lot of organisations an awful lot of money for very little result.   Richard & Gaye's point of difference is that they come from the Common Law viewpoint of what would be expected to be done in the event that something happens. Which is very, very different from just applying the risk management standard (for example). They combine common law and risk management to come to a due diligence process to make organisations look at what their risk issues are and, more importantly, what they have to have in place to manage these things.Due diligence is a governance exercise. You can't always be right, but what the courts demand of you is that you're always diligent 

  1. 35 MIN AGO

    Cunning vs Smart in Health & Safety

    In this episode of Risk!Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis explore organisational Cunning versus Smart and why it matters deeply for health, safety, and governance. Richard draws on decades of observing large organisations and argues that the people who rise to the top aren't always the most competent, they're often the most cunning. But cunning alone isn't enough. The real sweet spot, what Richard calls wisdom, is the rare combination of intellectual smarts, real-world experience, and strategic savvy. The conversation turns to boards and the growing concern that professional board members are increasingly disconnected from the industries they govern and they reflect on how this experiential gap is shifting boards toward managing legal liability rather than optimising safety, and what that means for organisations operating under SFAIRP obligations. They also dig into the tension between institutional knowledge and innovation. Why you need people who've lived and breathed an industry, complemented with fresh eyes willing to challenge the status quo, and how engineering's broader role in building a better society fits into all of it. And don’t miss Richard’s Kardashians vs Muppets joke at the end and how it relates to the topic.   If you’d like us to cover a specific topic or have any feedback we’d love to hear from you. Email admin@r2a.com.au. For further information on Richard and Gaye’s consulting work with R2A, head to https://www.r2a.com.au, where you’ll also find their booklets (store) and a sign-up for their quarterly newsletter to keep informed of their latest news and events.  Gaye is also founder of Australian women’s safety workwear company Apto PPE https://www.aptoppe.com.au.

    14 min
  2. 19 APR

    The Use of Ignorance in Health & Safety Decisions

    In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis explore the use of ignorance in health and safety decisions and how it’s being used to not make decisions and not deliver the best safety outcomes for organisations. Richard and Gaye examine the growing trend of shorter board tenures and how this lack of long-term intellectual property can affect diligent decisions, especially when directors lack deep familiarity with the technical hazards their organisations face. They also discuss how decision-makers often surround themselves with people who won't ask uncomfortable and challenging questions, or filter information that reaches Boards. They also discuss optimism bias and the commercial tendency to dismiss risk as pessimism. They argue that the SFAIRP (So Far As Is Reasonably Practicable) framework demands more than just taking action on known hazards. It requires a clear, documented justification for inaction — and that justification needs to be revisited continuously as technology, knowledge, and circumstances evolve. They conclude that genuine safety governance isn't about guaranteeing nothing bad will ever happen, but being able to look the next of kin in the eye and say, hand on heart, that everything reasonable was done. The SFAIRP moral imperative versus commercial reality.   If you’d like us to cover a specific topic or have any feedback we’d love to hear from you. Email admin@r2a.com.au. For further information on Richard and Gaye’s consulting work with R2A, head to https://www.r2a.com.au, where you’ll also find their booklets (store) and a sign-up for their quarterly newsletter to keep informed of their latest news and events.  Gaye is also founder of Australian women’s safety workwear company Apto PPE https://www.aptoppe.com.au.

    16 min
  3. 8 MAR

    To Grok or Not? Using AI for Risk Management & Governance Decisions

    In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis how AI in Risk Management? Richard begins with a deep-dive into how large language models work, and where they fall short. He explains why AI systems are sophisticated inference engines rather than true reasoning machines, and why that distinction matters enormously for high-stakes decision-making and risk management. The conversation covers the parallels between AI and Monte Carlo simulation (great for likely scenarios, unreliable for rare critical events), the growing wave of fabricated legal citations produced by AI tools, and why the common law system itself mirrors how large language models operate. Gaye and Richard then bring the discussion back to governance and what does responsible AI use look like for boards and organisations? Who carries liability when a decision is based on AI output? And how do you ensure the sources AI cites are actually real? They conclude by agreeing that AI is a powerful tool for gathering information faster than ever before, but it demands that essential second layer of human thought, verification, and documented decision-making.  They reiterate that thinking, and SFAIRP, is hard.   If you’d like us to cover a specific topic or have any feedback we’d love to hear from you. Email admin@r2a.com.au. For further information on Richard and Gaye’s consulting work with R2A, head to https://www.r2a.com.au, where you’ll also find their booklets (store) and a sign-up for their quarterly newsletter to keep informed of their latest news and events.  Gaye is also founder of Australian women’s safety workwear company Apto PPE https://www.aptoppe.com.au.

    13 min
  4. 1 MAR

    SFAIRP: Moral Imperative vs Commercial Reality

    In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss this season’s theme of SFAIRP: Moral Imperative versus Commercial Reality and that SFAIRP is hard.  They discuss the tension between the legal and moral weight of “so far as is reasonably practicable” and the commercial pressures organisations face every day, including: How SFAIRP is an objective test, but objective to whom, and determined when?Why leaving the "i" out of SFAIRP matters more than you might think.The danger of delaying design decisions until elimination options are no longer viable.The misuse of HAZOP as a substitute for early-stage critical hazard thinking. Why the WHS legislation may actually be trying to bring creativity and innovation back into engineering.The season will also cover topics on AI and the human effort required to verify it, the integration of the risk curve, risk language and the creeping rigidity in how terms are used, resilient and adaptation strategies. If you’d like us to cover a specific topic or have any feedback we’d love to hear from you. Email admin@r2a.com.au.   For further information on Richard and Gaye’s consulting work with R2A, head to https://www.r2a.com.au, where you’ll also find their booklets (store) and a sign-up for their quarterly newsletter to keep informed of their latest news and events.    Gaye is also founder of Australian women’s safety workwear company Apto PPE https://www.aptoppe.com.au.

    12 min

About

Due Diligence and Risk Engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss governance in an engineering context.Richard & Gaye are co-directors at R2A and have seen the risk business industry become very complex. The OHS/WHS 'business', in particular, has turned into an industry, that appears to be costing an awful lot of organisations an awful lot of money for very little result.   Richard & Gaye's point of difference is that they come from the Common Law viewpoint of what would be expected to be done in the event that something happens. Which is very, very different from just applying the risk management standard (for example). They combine common law and risk management to come to a due diligence process to make organisations look at what their risk issues are and, more importantly, what they have to have in place to manage these things.Due diligence is a governance exercise. You can't always be right, but what the courts demand of you is that you're always diligent 

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