Trigger Warning: This episode contains topics including suicide, drug overdose, and death. Take care of yourself, and skip this one if these topics aren’t right for you. Summary In this heartfelt and deeply resonant conversation, I sit down with Cat Dean (they/them)—an eclectic southern witch, tarot reader, and musician—to explore the experience of living in between. From our shared journeys through religious deconstruction, queerness, neurodivergence, and gender fluidity, we weave together a tapestry of moments that challenge binaries and celebrate authenticity. With vulnerability and humor, we talk about how spiritual practice, tarot, and self-inquiry have become anchors through seasons of upheaval and transformation. Cat opens up about growing up in a high-control religious environment in the South, grappling with identity while performing in church choirs, and eventually coming out as queer and non-binary. They reflect on leaving behind church work while still holding onto grounding rituals, and how reentering Episcopal music spaces offered unexpected healing. I share my own story of spiritual unlearning, navigating life with both autism and ADHD, and the long, messy path from evangelicalism to rediscovering my spiritual self through tarot. Together, we unpack the nuance of gender expression, spiritual practice burnout, and how tarot has evolved for each of us—from a survival tool to a source of soulful connection. Cat offers wisdom on resting, playing, and reconnecting with our tools when burnout hits, and we both speak to the importance of trusting ourselves over rigid systems. If you’re in the midst of unlearning or learning to embrace your in-betweenness, this episode is a sanctuary of understanding, liberation, and resonance. Contemplating Resonance is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Takeaways * Living in between binaries—whether gender, belief, or identity—can be a source of power, not confusion. * Leaving high-control religion doesn’t mean abandoning spirituality; it means redefining it on your own terms. * Spiritual practice burnout is real, and rest, play, and presence are powerful antidotes. * Neurodivergent wiring often brings deep sensitivity and insight that can enrich spiritual paths. * Tarot can evolve from a tool for survival to one of soulful connection and self-trust. Quoteables * I don’t need to be either/or—I can be both, neither, and something entirely my own. – Cat Dean * Leaving church didn’t mean leaving the divine—it meant finding it in places I wasn’t taught to look. – Matt Stine * Tarot stopped being a lifeline and started becoming a love language. – Cat Dean * Neurodivergence isn’t a barrier to spiritual practice—it’s often the reason I see the world the way I do. – Matt Stine * Rest is a spell. Play is a ritual. Presence is sacred. – Cat Dean Notes * Cat Dean’s Linktreehttps://linktr.ee/Catwithdacards * Cat Dean’s Substacks * The Southern Gothic Oracle by Stacey Williams-Ng 🔗 https://lapantherestudio.com/products/the-southern-gothic-oracle * Roses, Dust & Ashes Oracle by Stacey Williams-Ng🔗 https://lapantherestudio.com/products/the-roses-dust-ashes-oracle * Elmwood Cemetery, Memphis, TN (referenced in connection to the Roses, Dust & Ashes Oracle) 🔗 https://www.elmwoodcemetery.org/ * Post referencing Matt’s sister: Thanks for reading Contemplating Resonance! This post is public so feel free to share it. Chapters * 00:00 - Building Community Through Threads Matt and Cat reflect on how they first connected via social media and the vibe of Threads as a digital space for community. * 06:23 - A Mercury in Sagittarius Podcast The conversation spins out into digressions, embracing chaos as part of the show’s identity and tone. * 15:20 - Deconstruction in Real Time Cat shares their evolving journey of deconstructing spirituality while still living in the South. * 22:49 - Self-Trust, Self-Authority, and Tarot Burnout They talk about the complexity of trusting oneself, spiritual authority, and how tarot can both support and overwhelm. * 31:02 - The Wisdom of the Body Matt and Cat reflect on embodiment, grief, and the slow, intuitive process of coming home to oneself. * 38:15 - The Rewilding Begins Themes of reclaiming the sacred, delighting in sensation, and unlearning colonial productivity are explored. * 45:33 - Cycles, Seasons, and Letting Go The two discuss honoring energetic shifts, burnout, and permission to pause. * 54:25 - Divination as Devotion Cat shares their thoughts on tarot, guides, and intuitive practices as a sacred conversation rather than a grind. * 58:07 - Listening Without Tools Matt speaks to the importance of stillness, and the deep knowing that can emerge when we simply sit and listen. * 1:03:25 - Holding Space with Integrity They both reflect on how to responsibly serve others when offering readings, coaching, or support. * 1:10:30 - Protective Tools and Spiritual Hygiene Matt and Cat close out with their favorite energetic tools, from obsidian to evil eye bracelets, before Matt lands the plane. 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