AI & I

Dan Shipper

Learn how the smartest people in the world are using AI to think, create, and relate. Each week I interview founders, filmmakers, writers, investors, and others about how they use AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Midjourney in their work and in their lives. We screen-share through their historical chats and then experiment with AI live on the show. Join us to discover how AI is changing how we think about our world—and ourselves. For more essays, interviews, and experiments at the forefront of AI: https://every.to/chain-of-thought?sort=newest.

  1. 10 HRS AGO

    Best of the Pod: Would You Shut Down Your Most Successful Product? The Arc to Dia Story

    If you had millions of people using a product you spent years building, would you kill it? That’s exactly what The Browser Company did with Arc. Originally recorded in July before The Browser Company’s acquisition by software giant Atlassian earlier this year, we’re republishing this episode because its lessons are truly timeless. Today, the team continues to operate independently under Atlassian’s umbrella. The internet backlash when the company killed Arc in May 2025 was intense, but cofounders Josh Miller and Hursh Agrawal saw that AI was about to make the web something you talk to, not just click into. The best home for that assistant was the thing that's already between you and the internet—the browser. And they realized they couldn’t just duct-tape it on to Arc. One year of heads-down work later, the team launched Dia in beta, and people are raving about it. Dia is a sleek, fast, browser with AI at its core—it gets better with every tab you open, becoming more and more helpful with time. And even though it’s still early, Josh and Hursh’s big pivot looks like one for the ages. In this episode of AI & I, Josh and Hursh spoke for the first time in a full-length podcast about their pivot from Arc to Dia. We talked through their decision-making process, the very public backlash the company faced, and the grit it took to stay the course. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Timestamps:00:00:00 - Start00:00:48 - Introduction 00:02:22 - The story of how Dan might've been the CEO of The Browser Company 00:09:40 - The moment Josh and Hursh knew they had to walk away from Arc 00:16:59 - How to handle the weight of the unknown in a pivot 00:23:24 - The prototype-driven culture that kept The Browser Company alive 00:25:06 - Why having a product loved by millions of users isn't enough 00:32:12 - The architectural decisions underlying how Dia was built 00:46:04 - How Dia almost shipped without its best feature 00:50:45 - The best ways people are using Dia in the wild 01:07:27 - How Josh and Hursh think about competing with incumbents 01:17:13 - How romanticism informs the product decisions behind Dia Links to resources mentioned in the episode:Hursh Agrawal: @hurshJosh Miller: @joshmMore about Dia: https://www.diabrowser.com/ Writer and investor M.G. Siegler’s essay about the AI browser wars: https://spyglass.org/ai-browser-wars/ Note: This episode is a rerun from our archives.

    1h 24m

  2. NOV 19

    Best of the Pod: Claude Code - How Two Engineers Ship Like a Team of 15

    If you’re using AI to just write code, you’re missing out. Two engineers at Every shipped six features, five bug fixes, and three infrastructure updates in one week—and they did it by designing workflows with AI agents, where each task makes the next one easier, faster, and more reliable. In this episode of AI & I, Dan Shipper interviewed the pair—Kieran Klaassen, general manager of Cora, our inbox management tool, and Cora engineer Nityesh Agarwal—about how they’re compounding their engineering with AI. They walk Dan through their workflow in Anthropic’s agentic coding tool, Claude Code, and the mental models they’ve developed for making AI agents truly useful. Kieran, our resident AI-agent aficionado, also ranked all the AI coding assistants he’s used. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperHead to ai.studio/build to create your first app. Pitch is the AI presentation platform that helps professionals collaborate on, create, and deliver winning slide decks — all while staying on brand: https://pitch.com/use-cases/ai-presentation-maker/?utm_medium=paid-influencer&utm_campaign=every  Timestamps:Episode start: 00:00:00Introduction: 00:01:16Why Kieran believes agents are turning a corner: 00:03:18Why Claude Code stands out from other agents: 00:06:36What makes agentic coding different from using tools like Cursor: 00:11:58The Cora team’s workflow to turn tasks into momentum: 00:15:20How to build a prompt that turns ideas into plans: 00:23:07The new mental models for this age of software engineering: 00:34:00Why traditional tests and evals still matter: 00:39:13Kieran ranks all the AI coding agents he’s used: 00:42:00 Links to resources mentioned in the episode:Try Cora, our AI email assistant: https://cora.computer/ Kieran Klaassen: @kieranklaassenNityesh Agarwal: @nityeshagaThe book that helps Nityesh form mental models to work with AI agents: High Output Management

    53 min
  3. Building AI Agents to Launch a Million Businesses

    NOV 12

    Building AI Agents to Launch a Million Businesses

    Henrik Werdelin wants to launch a million businesses that each make $1M—and he’s doing it with AI. After helping launch Barkbox and Ro Health through his incubator Prehype, Henrik is distilling everything he knows into Audos, a platform that helps you use AI agents to turn your idea into a profitable, lasting company. We had him on AI & I to talk about “portfolio entrepreneurship”—a new breed of entrepreneurship shepherded in by AI, where founders build families of products around the same customer, instead of one moonshot idea. It’s a philosophy we hold close to our hearts at Every. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more? Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperHead to ai.studio/build to create your first app. Ready to build a site that looks hand-coded—without hiring a developer? Launch your site for free at https://www.framer.com/, and use code DAN to get your first month of Pro on the house! Pitch is the AI presentation platform that helps professionals collaborate on, create, and deliver winning slide decks — all while staying on brand: https://pitch.com/use-cases/ai-presentation-maker/?utm_medium=paid-influencer&utm_campaign=every ! Timestamps: 00:01:33 - Introduction 00:02:50 - Dan and Henrik on the new breed of entrepreneurship that AI makes possible 00:11:08 - Why Henrik believes the future belongs to a million $1M companies 00:16:14 - How to build “relationship capital” with your customers 00:21:35 - Why “customer-founder fit” shapes lasting companies 00:23:01 - Everything Henrik learned about himself from a decade of building companies 00:31:44 - How Henrik finds focus and meaning in the daily chaos 00:34:17 - How Henrik is parenting two kids in the age of AI 00:50:33 - The way AI can fix what social media broke 00:56:59 - What happens when AI agents become part of how we tell stories Links to resources mentioned in the episode: Henrik Werdelin: https://hellohenrik.com/Try Audos: https://www.audos.com/Henrik’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/Me-My-Customer-AI-Entrepeneurship/dp/B0FCSQ1C7H

    1h 6m
  4. What Jason Fried Learned from 26 Years of Building Great Products

    NOV 5

    What Jason Fried Learned from 26 Years of Building Great Products

    37signals makes tens of millions in profit every year but ⁠Jason Fried⁠ isn’t all that interested in running a business. Instead, he cares most about making great products—like ⁠Basecamp⁠, ⁠HEY⁠, and ⁠Ruby on Rails⁠—products that are centered around a single, coherent idea. These products are complete wholes, where each piece matters—like a Frank Lloyd Wright house or a vintage car. But how do you create products like that? In this conversation, we talk to Jason about what two decades of building 37signals has been like—and how to build products that have soul. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more? Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: ⁠https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt⁠. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: ⁠https://every.to/subscribe⁠Follow him on X: ⁠https://twitter.com/danshipper⁠Listen to Working Smarter wherever you get your podcasts, or visit ⁠workingsmarter.ai⁠.  Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Start 00:00:32 - Introduction 00:02:06 - What architecture, watches, and cars teach us about software 00:10:54 - How Jason thinks AI plays into product-building 00:20:58 - How developers at 37signals use AI 00:25:47 - Jason’s biggest realization after 26 years of running 37signals 00:29:58 - Where Jason thinks luck shaped his career 00:32:41 - What Jason would do if he were graduated into the AI boom 00:37:22 - Dan asks for advice on running a non-traditional company like Every 00:46:39 - Why staying true to yourself is the only way to build something lasting 00:49:38 - Wholeness as the north star for building products—and companies Links to resources mentioned in the episode: Jason Fried: ⁠Jason Fried (@jasonfried)⁠, ⁠Jason Fried⁠More about 37Signals: ⁠37signals⁠The book about architecture by Christopher Alexander: ⁠The Timeless Way of Building⁠

    58 min

  5. OCT 31

    How Salesforce Is Using AI to Power the Enterprise

    This episode contains sponsored content in partnership with Salesforce. At Dreamforce 2025, Every CEO Dan Shipper sat down with Silvio Savarese, chief AI scientist at Salesforce, to discuss how one of the world’s largest software companies is shaping the future of AI for the enterprise. Together, Dan and Savarese explore how his team at Salesforce develops AI solutions that now power more than 13,000 businesses—including OpenAI, Dell, and FedEx—helping them become truly Agentic Enterprises that operate with greater scale, speed, and precision. Examples include a large language model built for Salesforce developers years before ChatGPT’s release, and Agentforce, the company’s agentic layer that enables a hybrid future of work where humans and AI agents collaborate to achieve more than either could alone. They also discuss how Agentforce gives enterprises a deeply unified AI platform that connects their data with agent functionality—making it both powerful and practical. The conversation touches on how Salesforce builds trust with enterprise customers amid the jagged frontier of AI by ensuring consistency in results, while continuing to push the boundaries of what agents can do autonomously. Savarese shares how enterprise-grade simulation environments help them strike that balance, and reflects on how AI agents will ultimately transform how businesses and individuals alike get things done. @Salesforce #SalesforcePartner #DF25 Want even more? Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Timestamps:00:00 – Start01:16 – Inside Salesforce’s early AI innovations02:50 – How Agentforce works and what it can do07:03 – The real challenges of deploying AI at scale08:57 – Why Salesforce builds simulation environments for AI12:35 – The future of agents and enterprise AI

    14 min
  6. Inside Claude Code From the Engineers Who Built It

    OCT 29

    Inside Claude Code From the Engineers Who Built It

    At Every, the team credits Claude Code with transforming the way they work. They now ship to codebases they barely know, each new feature makes the next easier to build, and even non-technical teammates confidently use the terminal. To explore how this happened, AI & I host Dan Shipper invited Claude Code’s creators—Cat Wu (@_catwu) and Boris Cherny (@bcherny) from Anthropic AI—to discuss what they’ve learned from building one of the most beloved AI engineering tools in the world. This episode is a must-watch for anyone—technical or not—who wants to understand how to use Claude Code like the people who built it. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share. Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Build your first AI-powered app at [ai.studio/build](http://ai.studio/build). Timestamps:  00:00:00 - Start 00:01:26 - Introduction 00:02:25 - Claude Code’s origin story 00:07:03 - How Anthropic dogfoods Claude Code 00:14:06 - Boris and Cat’s favorite slash commands 00:15:49 - How Boris uses Claude Code to plan feature development 00:21:53 - Everything Anthropic has learned about using sub-agents well 00:26:16 - Use Claude Code to turn past code into leverage 00:33:14 - The product decisions for building an agent that’s simple and powerful 00:36:38 - Making Claude Code accessible to the non-technical user 00:45:12 - The next form factor for coding with AI Links to resources mentioned in the episode: - Cat Wu: https://x.com/_catwu - Boris Cherny: https://x.com/bcherny- Claude Code: https://www.claude.com/product/claude-code

    1h 10m
  7. Spiral: Designing an AI Ghostwriter With Taste

    OCT 22

    Spiral: Designing an AI Ghostwriter With Taste

    Good writing has always been downstream of good thinking. The average language model can help you write faster—but can it help you think better? Danny Aziz wrestled with this question while building the new version of Spiral, an AI writing partner informed by our editorial taste at Every that launched yesterday.  The result is a product—and a philosophy—built by the ultimate craftsman who believes you can lean into AI without blunting your edge with slop. We had Danny on AI & I to talk about using AI without losing your craft. We get into the hidden alpha in AI tools that slow you down, how to code with AI without losing your craft, and everything Danny learned about cajoling AI to write well. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!  Want even more? Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper  Ready to build a site that looks hand-coded—without hiring a developer? Launch your site for free at Framer.com, and use code DAN to get your first month of Pro on the house.  Timestamps:  00:00:00 – Start 00:01:00 – Introduction00:05:26 – How Danny used Spiral to prepare for this podcast00:08:29 – Why slowing down makes AI writing better00:13:42 – The agents working under the hood for Spiral00:14:46 – How Spiral helps you explore the canvas of possibilities00:24:41 – Why Danny pivoted away from the old version of Spiral00:31:51 – How to use AI without losing your craft00:34:55 – Danny’s workflow for building Spiral as a solo engineer00:40:39 – Code with AI while staying in control00:45:26 – What Danny learned about getting AI to write well00:47:52 – How Danny used DSPy to give AI taste00:56:16 – Dan v. AI Dan: Can the machine match the man? Links to resources mentioned in the episode: Danny Aziz: Danny Aziz (@DannyAziz97) / X Give Spiral a go: Spiral The article Every published about DSPy: I’ve Stopped Writing Prompts—DSPy Does It Better

    1h 8m
  8. We Taught AI to Play Games—Now It’s a $3.6 Million Company

    OCT 15

    We Taught AI to Play Games—Now It’s a $3.6 Million Company

    This episode is a little different from our usual fare: It’s a conversation with our head of AI training Alex Duffy about Good Start Labs, a company he incubated inside Every. Today, Good Start Labs is spinning out of Every as a separate company with $3.6 million in funding from General Catalyst, Inovia, Every, and a group of angel investors from top-tier AI labs like DeepMind. We get into how Alex learned some of his biggest lessons about the real world from games, starting with RuneScape, which taught him how markets work and how not to get scammed. He explains why the static benchmarks we use to evaluate LLMs today are breaking down, and how games like Diplomacy offer a richer, more dynamic way to test and train large language models. Finally, Alex shares where he sees the most promise in AI—software, life sciences, and education—and why he believes games can make the models we use smarter, while helping people understand and use AI more effectively. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share. Want even more? Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperTimestamps 00:00:00 - Start 00:01:48 - Introduction 00:04:14 - Why evals and benchmarks are broken 00:07:13 - The sneakiest LLMs in the market 00:13:00 - A competition that turns prompting into a sport 00:15:49 - Building a business around using games to make AI better 00:22:39 - Can language models learn how to be funny 00:25:31 - Why games are a great way to evaluate and train new models 00:26:58 - What child psychology tells us about games and AI 00:30:10 - Using games to unlock continual learning in AI 00:36:42 - Why Alex cares deeply about games 00:44:37 - Where Alex sees the most promise in AI 00:50:54 - Rethinking how young people start their careers in the age of AI Links to resources mentioned in the episode: Alex Duffy: alex duffy (@alxai_)Good Start Labs: https://goodstartlabs.com/, good start (@goodstartlabs)The book Alex is reading about the importance of games: Playing with Reality: How Games Shape Our WorldThe book Dan recommends by the psychoanalyst D.W. Winnicott: Playing and Reality

    58 min
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3.8
out of 5
4 Ratings

About

Learn how the smartest people in the world are using AI to think, create, and relate. Each week I interview founders, filmmakers, writers, investors, and others about how they use AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Midjourney in their work and in their lives. We screen-share through their historical chats and then experiment with AI live on the show. Join us to discover how AI is changing how we think about our world—and ourselves. For more essays, interviews, and experiments at the forefront of AI: https://every.to/chain-of-thought?sort=newest.

Information

  • Creator
    Dan Shipper
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2025
  • Episodes
    88
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Dan Shipper
  • Show Website
    AI & I

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