Implementing IPD in Nuclear Mega Projects with Carol Tansley | Saïd Business School, University of Oxford | S1 EP 11

In this week’s episode, Riccardo and guest co-host, Corail, sit down with fellow alumna, Carol Tansley to discuss her Oxford Saïd Business School dissertation on the institutional barriers to adopting integrated project delivery (IPD) on a nuclear mega project. Carol's impressive career, spanning two decades, is rooted in executing major programs for the UK Government Department for Work, HMRC, and DTI. As a recognized authority in large-scale IT and business transformations, her expertise took her to the Middle East, notably participating in the groundbreaking nuclear project in Abu Dhabi, marking the inauguration of the first nuclear power plant in the Arab world. Ninety-seven percent of nuclear major programmes go over time and over budget, so how did Carol (with no nuclear background) participate in delivering one two days early? This is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

“IPD may represent a methodology that would work has been proven to work in first of a kind environments. And while we have the field conditions now to embrace that, we need people that are willing to go out and embrace these new ways of working and seek to implement them.”

Key Takeaways: 

• The role Eternal Beginner Syndrome plays in complex nuclear programmes.
• The perceived barriers against adopting new models and how cultural and cognitive biases can masquerade as genuine obstacles.
• Carol’s experience at Nuclear Week in the UK parliament and the future trends of the nuclear industry—energy security goals, securing affordable supplies and tackling climate change.
• Attracting the younger generation to the nuclear sector to support climate solutions and the expected 40 percent growth rate.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Carol Tansley on LinkedIn
• Corail Bourrelier Fabiani on LinkedIn
• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 00:05

You're listening to navigate the major programes, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host, Riccardo Cosentino brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University’s Day business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion-dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Carol Tansley was appointed Vice President X energy UK new build projects in September 2022. In this role, she oversees all x-energy's activities towards establishing the XE 100 as the prominent I temperature gas reactor technology in the United Kingdom. Prior to joining IX energy, Carol served as the operational readiness Control Center Director for the early successful Emirates nuclear energy cooperation startup of the Barakah nuclear plant in the UAE. She was also the new Newa energy company director of strategic programs. Prior to this, she served as a senior director for PwC in the UK and UAE, as well as working at Accenture delivering some of the UK is largest public sector change programs. She recently graduated with distinction from the University of Oxford, with an MSc in major program management. Carol's research focuses on causes of poor performance on nuclear mega project, and potential benefits of adopting relational contracting models.

Corail 02:05

Hello, Carol Heller, Ricardo, I'm super happy to talk to you today. And thank you so much for the opportunity to interview Carol on your podcast, Ricardo, I think we all met in Oxford during the MMPMcourse. And it was wonderful to learn about Carol's experience about the nuclear industry, which is one of the most complex industries, you can find say, I think the listener will be so happy to hear about Carol's story and what you have to say are all about the future of this industry. First of all, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about your background and how you fell into the nuclear sector. I know that there is a little value at the start of this episode to talk about your career, but it would be great to hear from your words how how you got into that very complex industry.

Carol Tansley 03:05

Okay, thank you very much corral. And thank you, Riccardo. I really appreciate the opportunity. One to both be back together again, because we haven't seen each other for a little while and to to talk on your podcast. So thank you very much. And just in terms of my background, my professional career has all been in delivering major projects and programs. The first I'll call it almost 20 years was in the UK, delivering major programs for the UK Government Department for Work in pensions HMRC. What was DTI. A lot of the large transformation programs that came with large scale it development programs and the business transformation that sat around that in around 2010. I moved to work on a project in the Middle East. It was for the Ministry of Interior in Abu Dhabi, a large transformation program that we're doing now it was a joint Middle East UK project and it covered the police Abu Dhabi police that covered Civil Defense prisons borders. And I was there for a couple of years. I then went to Saudi Arabia and worked for on a big transformation program for Ministry of Labor. And it was when I'd been there for a couple of years that I was asked to join the nuclear project that they were delivering in Abu Dhabi, you may be aware that they are they've delivered the first nuclear power plant in the Arab world. It was a new to nuclear country, what they've achieved there is quite phenomenal with the vision of the leaders of that country. So they pass their legislation to become a nuclear country and to get my program moving in 2009 They broke ground if you like so poured first concrete and 2012 and they got their first unit online by loading fuel for the first unit right before COVID Hit actually And two days ahead of schedule on the 17th of February 2020. And I was privileged to be part of that program, I was asked to join that program because of my background in major program delivery, not because I had anything to do with nuclear. So it was really, it was an amazing journey, great learning curve, an amazing sector to be part of, particularly now that it is going to play such an important role in the energy transition, the drive to net zero and energy security goals for countries around the world.

Corail 05:33

Absolutely is really impressive as well that you delivered two days early this project, which is so unusual in I think, in your research somewhere, you said that there is a study that said that over 97% of nuclear major projects are delayed, that cost overruns, etc, all across the globe. So it's quite unusual. Isn't that very unusual in that industry? How on earth did you make this happen? Like how did you manage to deliver early such a complex program?

Carol Tansley 06:08

Yeah, well, you're absolutely right about what you say its nuclear mega projects, I'll call them particularly nuclear new builds are recognized as being one of the most complex type of program to deliver. In fact, there are people who say Charles Perot, for example, in his textbook says that nuclear mega projects are the hardest to deliver harder and more complex than something like the International Space Station. And you're also right in what you said that one of the datasets I looked at 97% of the nuclear new build projects had gone over time and over budget. So in terms of what happened at Baraccah, it certainly wasn't me alone, it was a huge effort by a huge number of people working together over many years to achieve this. I think a lot of it came from the vision and the determination of the leaders in Abu Dhabi, they were determined to be at the forefront of clean energy. And they saw the drive for nuclear. As a critical part of that. I think we the fact that we chose a design that was in Nth of a kind if you like, so what that means is multiple units have been delivered before. So the South Koreans Catco, who delivered the units, it was proven reactor design had been delivered before, albeit

in a different environment. So that created with a very experienced team. So that was a big foundation. There were many, I'll call it first of a kind variables, as we've already said, new to nuclear country, new elements of the supply chain. But the critical thing was having a really important integration function that sat across all of the teams, including the supply chain, that worked very closely with all of the internal and external stakeholders, including the regulator, that was a critically important part of what we did, and making sure that we had a schedule that was fully scoped, that we did our best to make sure it was realistic from the start, we kept assessing our past performance as we were moving forward to make sure that the schedule took account of that. And we tried to eliminate any optimism bias in our forward forecasting. It wasn't always a smooth journey. There were a few bumps in the road along the way, as you'd expect with somet