"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

  1. AI Discovered Antibiotics: How Small Data & Small GNNs Led to Big Results, w/ MIT Prof. Jim Collins

    -3 H

    AI Discovered Antibiotics: How Small Data & Small GNNs Led to Big Results, w/ MIT Prof. Jim Collins

    Jim Collins, Termeer Professor at MIT, unveils his AI-powered project that has discovered several new antibiotics, effective against resistant strains and often employing entirely new mechanisms of action. He details how their refined multi-step AI process, even with small datasets and modest compute, can efficiently screen vast chemical spaces to identify promising drug candidates. This breakthrough offers a realistic and affordable path to tackling the staggering antibiotic resistance crisis, which currently claims over a million lives annually. Collins argues this practical application of AI represents a transformative win for humanity, often overlooked amidst the focus on AGI. Sponsors: AssemblyAI: AssemblyAI is the speech-to-text API for building reliable Voice AI apps, offering high accuracy, low latency, and scalable infrastructure. Start building today with $50 in free credits at https://assemblyai.com/cognitive Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you to tackle complex problems like coding and business strategy. Sign up and get 50% off your first 3 months of Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr AGNTCY: AGNTCY is dropping code, specs, and services. Visit AGNTCY.org. Visit Outshift Internet of Agents Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:30) Introducing Jim Collins (05:26) Antibiotic Resistance Primer (14:04) The Antibiotic Market Failure (18:45) AI Discovers Halicin (Part 1) (18:51) Sponsors: AssemblyAI Ad 1 | Claude (22:11) AI Discovers Halicin (Part 2) (30:58) The Economics of Discovery (39:10) Inside the AI Architecture (Part 1) (39:17) Sponsors: Linear | AGNTCY | Shopify (43:47) Inside the AI Architecture (Part 2) (01:00:13) Human-in-the-Loop Discovery (01:12:12) Novel Mechanisms & Properties (01:19:02) Future Applications & Risks (01:27:01) A Call to Action (01:28:04) Outro

    1 h 25 min
  2. Education in the AI Age: a Teacher Rethinks Learning & Purpose, w/ Johan Falk of Graspable AI

    -5 J

    Education in the AI Age: a Teacher Rethinks Learning & Purpose, w/ Johan Falk of Graspable AI

    Today Johan Falk, author, speaker, and AI analyst from Stockholm, Sweden, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss his work reimagining education for the AI era, exploring why teaching students to use AI responsibly is now urgent, how traditional grades and standardized tests may become obsolete, and why education systems must develop unprecedented agility to prepare students for a radically uncertain future shaped by rapidly advancing AI capabilities. Shownotes brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at: https://notion.com/lp/nathan Three Purposes of Education: Education serves to supply workforce competence, foster citizenship with values, and support personal growth. Cultural Differences in Education: Sweden emphasizes community and common good over competition compared to the US approach. AI's Educational Impact: The fundamental purpose of education is being questioned as AI develops, especially if Universal Basic Income becomes more prevalent. Sponsors: Google Gemini Notebook LM: Notebook LM is an AI-first tool that helps you make sense of complex information. Upload your documents and it instantly becomes a personal expert, helping you uncover insights and brainstorm new ideas at https://notebooklm.google.com Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr AGNTCY: AGNTCY is dropping code, specs, and services. Visit AGNTCY.org. Visit Outshift Internet of Agents Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you to tackle complex problems like coding and business strategy. Sign up and get 50% off your first 3 months of Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive

    1 h 52 min
  3. The Customer Service Revolution: Building Fin, with Eoghan McCabe & Fergal Reid of Intercom

    5 OCT.

    The Customer Service Revolution: Building Fin, with Eoghan McCabe & Fergal Reid of Intercom

    Today Eoghan McCabe and Fergal Reid of Intercom join The Cognitive Revolution to discuss building their AI customer service agent Fin, exploring how they achieved a 65% resolution rate through rigorous optimization and custom model training rather than relying on base model improvements, while pioneering outcome-based pricing at $0.99 per resolution. Shownotes brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at: https://notion.com/lp/nathan Sponsors: Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr AGNTCY: AGNTCY is dropping code, specs, and services. Visit AGNTCY.org. Visit Outshift Internet of Agents Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you to tackle complex problems like coding and business strategy. Sign up and get 50% off your first 3 months of Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:43) Keeping Up With AI (09:56) Evaluating Models and Evals (13:04) Incumbents vs. Startups (18:54) Product Risk and Judgment (Part 1) (19:00) Sponsors: Linear | AGNTCY (21:34) Product Risk and Judgment (Part 2) (23:42) The Klarna Layoff Story (Part 1) (32:11) Sponsors: Claude | Shopify (36:13) The Klarna Layoff Story (Part 2) (36:14) Driving Resolution Rate (45:00) Intelligence Isn't the Bottleneck (50:10) Closing the Automation Gap (56:20) Human vs. AI Accuracy (01:01:03) The Nuance of Speed (01:04:48) Considering Paradigm Changes (01:09:31) Outcome-Based Pricing Model (01:19:12) Casual Hacking and Insights (01:26:05) AI Adoption and Ambition (01:36:00) Outro

    1 h 34 min
  4. Training an AI Scientist with Feedback from Reality, w- Liam Fedus & Ekin Dogus Cubuk (from a16z)

    2 OCT.

    Training an AI Scientist with Feedback from Reality, w- Liam Fedus & Ekin Dogus Cubuk (from a16z)

    This special crosspost features a16z General Partner Anjney Midha in conversation with Periodic Labs co-founders Liam Fedus (OpenAI, ChatGPT) and Ekin Doğuş Çubuk (Google DeepMind), who recently secured a $300M investment. They discuss their ambitious mission to build automated physical laboratories that connect AI-generated hypotheses directly to real-world experiments, aiming to teach AI scientific intuition and accelerate discovery, with a north star of finding a high-temperature superconductor. The conversation delves into the human and organizational strategies for building such an "AI for Science" company, emphasizing curiosity, cross-disciplinary learning, and a culture that prioritizes mission alignment over traditional credentials. Listeners will gain insights into how Periodic Labs plans to commercialize their advancements and foster broader scientific contributions, driving a future where AI deeply understands the physical world. Read the full transcript here: https://storage.aipodcast.ing/cache/combinedtranscript-20251002T100327544Z.html Sponsors: Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr AGNTCY: AGNTCY is dropping code, specs, and services. Visit AGNTCY.org. Visit Outshift Internet of Agents Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you to tackle complex problems like coding and business strategy. Sign up and get 50% off your first 3 months of Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    1 h 1 min
  5. Emad Mostaque on The Last Economy: 1000 Days to Reimagine Work, Value & Human Purpose

    28 SEPT.

    Emad Mostaque on The Last Economy: 1000 Days to Reimagine Work, Value & Human Purpose

    Today, Emad Mostaque, founder of Intelligent Internet, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss his book "The Last Economy" and his radical "intelligence theory" framework for reimagining economics in the AI age, exploring concepts like the abundance trap, metabolic rift, and his proposed cryptocurrency-funded system of collectively-owned AI infrastructure to prevent digital feudalism and ensure AI benefits humanity rather than just capital owners. Shownotes brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at: https://notion.com/lp/nathan Read the full transcript: https://storage.aipodcast.ing/transcripts/episode/tcr/936201c8-7b0b-4ec3-8f9d-057f08c32025/combined_transcript.html Sponsors: Fin: Fin is the #1 AI Agent for customer service, trusted by over 5000 customer service leaders and top AI companies including Anthropic and Synthesia. Fin is the highest performing agent on the market and resolves even the most complex customer queries. Try Fin today with our 90-day money-back guarantee - if you’re not 100% satisfied, get up to $1 million back. Learn more at https://fin.ai/cognitive Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr AGNTCY: AGNTCY is dropping code, specs, and services. Visit AGNTCY.org. Visit Outshift Internet of Agents Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you to tackle complex problems like coding and business strategy. Sign up and get 50% off your first 3 months of Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs. Try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    2 h 16 min
  6. Stripe's Payments Foundation Model: How Data & Infra Create Compounding Advantage, w/ Emily Sands

    25 SEPT.

    Stripe's Payments Foundation Model: How Data & Infra Create Compounding Advantage, w/ Emily Sands

    Today, Emily Sands, head of data and AI at Stripe, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss how the company built a payments foundation model that processes tens of billions of transactions into dense embeddings, exploring the technical architecture behind fraud detection improvements and the modular approach that enables rapid deployment of AI across Stripe's $1.4 trillion payment network. Check out our sponsors: Google Gemini Notebook LM, Linear, AGNTCY, Claude, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at: https://notion.com/lp/nathan Stripe's Scale: Processes $1.4 trillion annually, serving both small businesses and large enterprises (over half of Fortune 100 companies). "Business in a Box": There's emerging potential for AI to handle end-to-end business creation, including selection of third-party tools, payment providers, and other essential services. AI Company Partnerships: Two-thirds of the Forbes AI 50 companies already run on Stripe, as they focus on helping AI companies monetize effectively and scale globally. Sponsors: Google Gemini Notebook LM: Notebook LM is an AI-first tool that helps you make sense of complex information. Upload your documents and it instantly becomes a personal expert, helping you uncover insights and brainstorm new ideas at https://notebooklm.google.com Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr AGNTCY: AGNTCY is dropping code, specs, and services.Visit AGNTCY.orgVisit Outshift Internet of Agents Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you to tackle complex problems like coding and business strategy. Sign up and get 50% off your first three months of Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs. Try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive

    1 h 21 min
  7. Full-Stack AI Safety: Why Defense-in-Depth Might Work, with Far.AI CEO Adam Gleave

    20 SEPT.

    Full-Stack AI Safety: Why Defense-in-Depth Might Work, with Far.AI CEO Adam Gleave

    Adam Gleave, CEO of FAR AI, offers a cautiously optimistic perspective on navigating the path to Transformative AI safely, advocating for a "defense-in-depth" approach. He discusses potential "post-AGI equilibria," key capability thresholds, and why fully autonomous, outcompeting AI might not arrive until around 2040. The conversation delves into FAR AI's full-stack strategy, including scalable oversight projects using "lie detectors" for AI deception, interpretability research on planning algorithms, and red-teaming existing defense systems. Gleave makes a compelling case that with proper planning and meticulous design, a comprehensive defense-in-depth strategy can effectively manage AI safety risks. Read the full transcript: https://storage.aipodcast.ing/transcripts/episode/tcr/e117b021-8170-49ba-b1c4-c8ffc5d720b0/combined_transcript.html Sponsors: Fin: Fin is the #1 AI Agent for customer service, trusted by over 5000 customer service leaders and top AI companies including Anthropic and Synthesia. Fin is the highest performing agent on the market and resolves even the most complex customer queries. Try Fin today with our 90-day money-back guarantee - if you’re not 100% satisfied, get up to $1 million back. Learn more at https://fin.ai/cognitive Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you to tackle complex problems like coding and business strategy. Sign up and get 50% off your first three months of Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:52) Introduction and Setup (04:57) Post-AGI Future Vision (13:43) Gradual Disempowerment Concerns (Part 1) (20:14) Sponsors: Fin | Claude (24:16) Gradual Disempowerment Concerns (Part 2) (24:25) AI Capabilities and Timelines (34:44) Learning and Architecture Innovation (Part 1) (41:19) Sponsors: Linear | Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (43:57) Learning and Architecture Innovation (Part 2) (51:21) AI Safety Defense Strategies (59:43) Alignment and Training Methods (01:12:49) Interpretability Research Prospects (01:19:50) Far.AI Activities and Hiring (01:29:00) Outro

    1 h 27 min
  8. Can We Stop AI Deception? Apollo Research Tests OpenAI's Deliberative Alignment, w/ Marius Hobbhahn

    18 SEPT.

    Can We Stop AI Deception? Apollo Research Tests OpenAI's Deliberative Alignment, w/ Marius Hobbhahn

    Today Marius Hobbhahn of Apollo Research joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss their collaboration with OpenAI using "deliberative alignment" to reduce AI scheming behavior by 30x, exploring the safety challenges and concerning findings about models' growing situational awareness and increasingly cryptic reasoning patterns that emerge when frontier models like o3 and o4-mini operate with hidden chains of thought. Check out our sponsors: Fin, Linear, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at: https://notion.com/lp/nathan Definition of AI Scheming: AI scheming is defined as "covertly pursuing misaligned goals" with three components: being covert (hiding actions), misaligned (pursuing different goals than the user's), and goal-directed (working autonomously toward objectives). Deception Reduction Techniques: Deliberative reasoning approaches have shown promise in reducing deceptive behavior in AI models by up to 30 times (to 1 part in 30). Current Window of Opportunity: Now is an optimal time to study AI deception because models are smart enough to exhibit these behaviors but not yet sophisticated enough to hide them effectively. Human vs. AI Deception Equilibrium: AI systems might naturally reach a lower equilibrium of deception than humans because they can more efficiently verify claims and maintain perfect memory of past deceptions. Practical Developer Advice: AI developers should not trust models by default and should implement rigorous verification systems to check model outputs automatically. Future Delegation Risk: As we delegate increasingly complex and lengthy tasks to AI systems, we face a probabilistic risk where most interactions are beneficial, but rare scheming events could have severe consequences. Sponsors: Fin: Fin is the #1 AI Agent for customer service, trusted by over 5000 customer service leaders and top AI companies including Anthropic and Synthesia. Fin is the highest performing agent on the market and resolves even the most complex customer queries. Try Fin today with our 90-day money-back guarantee - if you’re not 100% satisfied, get up to $1 million back. Learn more at https://fin.ai/cognitive Linear: Linear is the system for modern product development. Nearly every AI company you've heard of is using Linear to build products. Get 6 months of Linear Business for free at: https://linear.app/tcr Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    2 h 9 min
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À propos

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

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