Slow Read: The Stand

Sarah Stewart Holland & Laura Tremaine
  • 5.0 (1)
  • Science Fiction

Sarah Stewart Holland & Laura Tremaine slow read Stephen King's classic The Stand. slowread.substack.com

  1. 2d ago

    SLOW READ: The Stand (The Circle Closes)

    Welcome to SLOW READ, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. Hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine We are currently reading The Stand by Stephen King (unabridged version) You can find our full Reading Schedule here Join the SLOW READ community on Substack for bonus episodes, book club meetings, and Side Quests with Sarah & Laura We have come to the end of our journey with The Stand by Stephen King. In this episode, we dissect what it all meant and what we’ll remember about this experience. Make sure to subscribe on Substack for our next SLOW READ! Mentioned: Wolf Hall War and Peace Don Quixote Brothers Karamazov Blazing Eye Sees All Sister Helen Prejean / Dead Man Walking The Circle That Doesn’t Close Laura: We are here today at the end of The Stand by Stephen King to close the circle. Sarah: But I think it’s a lie. Why did he say the circle closes? That’s not what happens at the end of this book. Laura: That’s true. That’s totally true. But it starts with “the circle opens.” That’s the opening. So he has to close it. Sarah: Or is it just that the circle continues? That would have been a more accurate title for this epilogue. Just saying. Laura: I do have to say that I purposely, when I made our reading schedule for The Stand — we knew we wanted to do it for six months, like January to June, which we did — I planned it to close our circle here the same week the book opens, which is the second week of June. Just because I liked that symmetry. Sarah: I love it. I love a symmetry. Laura: We have a few little pages to get through, but before we do that — we will be continuing the slow read. We have picked our next book. Sarah: I picked it and I forced it on Laura. That’s the truth. Laura: We’re going to tell you all about that next week, where you’ll hear the reveal. If you cannot wait another second to find out the book, our paid members learned last week during our book club meeting. So you can go watch the replay of that if you just can’t stand it another second. But today we’re going to tackle “dusk of a summer evening” and the circle closing — which is a lie, because it doesn’t actually close. Sarah: It doesn’t actually close, but there are things to say about how King ended this whole thing. Because if you do any sort of Reddit search, any sort of Googling about The Stand, what people want to talk about is the end. Laura: Pretty much. Whether it was a true stand, or a letdown for some people, or if it’s what people expected. There’s a lot of that. The Split Epilogue: An Epilogue for the Good Guys Sarah: We get this kind of split epilogue, right? So we get “dusk of a summer evening.” The people we get to see from the Free Zone contingent — the good side — are Stu and Franny and Peter. Laura: I’m sorry, three people. Babies are people too. On their journey back to Maine, they stop at Mother Abigail’s house. Sarah: I don’t know if that path makes sense, for the record. Geographically I’m always like, where are you guys going? What are we doing? But whatever, it’s fine. Laura: Maybe there’s something about the way you’d have to travel by foot. I’ve always thought this is weird. I’m going through all this area of the country, including Nebraska, this summer on my RV road trip with my family. So maybe I can report back to us. But they do stop at Mother Abigail’s house. They’re on the porch, the baby’s playing, and they’re talking about what happened in the Free Zone and what they think is going to happen next. It’s a little epilogue for the good guys, really. Did it feel true to you? Sarah: Yeah. I think it’s true that the Free Zone would not stay together as this tight, cohesive unit. As people came together — I love this line — “all these people make me nervous as a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest.” That’s something my grandpa would say. My grandpa always said, I want to live in the middle of 400 acres with a fence around it that says no trespassing. So to a certain contingent, living with other people is never going to be on the menu. From their perspective, the circle has closed, the threat is gone, so the need to stay close together for safety isn’t as intense. It makes sense that people would start to dissipate. Laura: I do think it’s an interesting choice that he follows the people leaving instead of staying in the Free Zone to say what happens next. Although you’re getting reporting from them on what the next phase looked like before they left. So he’s trying to get the best of both worlds. Sarah: I think he’s also addressing a natural question. If this really happened — but for the dreams about Mother Abigail drawing everyone to Boulder, or the contingent that went to Vegas — after a catastrophic pandemic like this, these little communities would be sprouting up all over. They wouldn’t all gather into one place. That’s the storytelling aspect, that it’s not very normal. So he’s addressing: okay, but in reality, people would dissipate. There’d be a lot of people like Franny who are homesick for their region, for their part of the country, who want to go back. Sarah: At their last Free Zone meeting they’re ready to have a sheriff, ready to get guns — and the progression of “when we don’t have one enemy, we have many enemies” seems pretty psychologically right to me. Do People Ever Learn Anything? Laura: He’s making the point over and over again in this ending — even in the darker parts — that the more things change, the more they stay the same. People are gonna people. Do you think people ever learn anything? That’s the question he’s posing. Sarah: I do. And look, there’s a way to look back over this book, and over the whole of human history, and say people are gonna people — they can be cruel, they can be violent. But the side of the coin I’m on is: yes, and the human species has made enormous, dramatic progress over the past 500 years. From the dark, peasant-and-serf-driven structure of society where how you’re born is how you die, the end — to an enormous ability to chart your own path and create peace and prosperity for the majority of people. The statistics on the children pulled out of poverty just in the last 30, 50 years are incredible. So I get what he’s saying, but I disagree to a certain extent that this is just an endless cycle, because we’ve made enormous progress. There’s no point in human history — unless you’re a crazy person who has this vision of the ‘50s that’s not accurate — where you’d want to go back in time. I don’t want to go back. First of all, I have a Type 1 diabetic child. The technology sucked just 10 years ago. I’m always going forward in time. Laura: There’s no doubt there’s an evolution, which means we are learning as a species. We’re learning and adapting and changing. I kind of think a better question — instead of “do you think we ever learn anything” — a bigger question that feels more complicated to me is: do we think people are inherently good? Are People Inherently Good? Sarah: Well, we know what Stephen King thinks. Laura: Do we? Sarah: Well, actually, I don’t, because I think I probably sit with him. I don’t think you can categorize all people. I think there’s a small percentage that are cruel and evil and violent and dark — and some, yes, it’s a product of their circumstances and trauma, and some I think maybe there’s something else going on, and it’s just kind of baked. He dances around this nicely with the dark man. I don’t think there’s a “dark man baby,” you know what I mean? That’s the philosophical debate — would you go back and kill Hitler as a baby? Do people spring forth fully formed? I’m not naive. I understand there are cruel, violent, terrible people out there. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are people who are just naturally nice and good — and a lot of them teach preschool, you know what I mean? They’re organized a little differently. And then there’s this messy middle, where you’re deciding day to day, moment to moment, in these sliding-door moments. You’re Harold, you’re going to fall for Nadine, you’re going to lean in. Or are you Larry and you’re going to turn Nadine down? There are lots of moments where most of us — the average, the mean — could fall either way. Laura: I think that’s one of the points of the book: most of us could fall either way. Our goodness might be circumstantial. And that’s a little bit of a hard pill to swallow, especially if you were raised to believe one of two things in a black-and-white way. If you were taught we’re all good, created in the image of God, no one can take that away — or we’re all depraved, all sinful. If you were raised with that binary, it’s hard sometimes, even if you’ve totally deconstructed, to read books like this or have conversations like this and not shake some of those old ideas. And I think he’s actually asking some of these questions in a really interesting way. Harold is a perfect and easy example, but so is Franny. If you’re raised in a certain type of home, or tax bracket, or with certain luxuries, maybe it’s easier to be good. If you’re given an opportunity for power you’ve never had, maybe it’s easier to be bad. And it’s not innate. It’s circumstantial. Holding Both Things at Once Sarah: Growing up, especially if you’re a teen inclined toward reductive thinking — if you’re an Enneagram One, forget being a teenager, if you’re just an Enneagram One — it’s taken me a long time to realize and be grateful for my upbringing and my faith that says: no, baby, the whole time both things were true. Every one of us is a child of God with a spark of the divine, deserving of inherent integrity and dignity. And we are also fallen, and can be harmful,

    46 min

  2. Jun 8

    SLOW READ: The Stand (Chapters 74 - 78)

    Welcome to SLOW READ, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. Hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine We are currently reading The Stand by Stephen King (unabridged version) You can find our full Reading Schedule here Join the SLOW READ community on Substack for bonus episodes, book club meetings, and Side Quests with Sarah & Laura REMINDER: Our final book club meeting discussing The Stand will be THURSDAY, JUNE 11 at 6pm PT / 8pm CT / 9pm ET and we’ll be announcing our next SLOW READ! You don’t want to miss it. Mentioned in this episode: * The Shining by Stephen King * Station Eleven by Emily St. John Mandel * The Crocodile Hunter * “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas” (”…if the fates allow”) * Noah Kahan, “Maine” * Steel Magnolias The Stand, or The Walk? Laura: How are you feeling? Sarah: Well, it’s giving Sopranos. You know how in The Sopranos it was the penultimate episode that usually contained the most action? I feel like that show set up that structure — although apparently not, because The Stand has been around a lot longer. The main action, especially a majority of the violence, the falling out between Randall Flagg and members of the Free Zone, the nuclear bomb — all of that happened in our last section. So now we’re getting that real finale. We’re caring for the characters we really loved. We’re seeing where they ended up. We’re tying up some loose ends. Laura: I felt like these last chapters post-nuclear-bomb were so arduous. I felt like King is personally trying to remind us that this whole thing is about the journey and not the destination, which is such an annoying message. I was just like, we are still walking. It should have been called The Walk, not The Stand. Honestly, the whole book is just about journeying. Sarah: Well, I will say this. It’s not standing still, that’s for sure. But there’s a moment near the end where Stu says they’ll have to stand a watch for him. So it really felt like this conclusion of the book was more a philosophy: it’s not that you have to walk forever, but that you do have to stand watch. Maybe the stand wasn’t some sort of high-noon final battle between good and evil, which is what I expected when I started the book. It’s more like standing watch — standing watch for our worst instincts, standing watch for the ways in which humans can perpetuate great cruelty and harm on each other. We’re standing sentry, keeping an eye out. And even though I’m an Enneagram One and I love a black-and-white conclusion, I thought this was truer, wiser. I really liked it. Laura: It also seems to be saying that nothing is ever really over. It might be over for you individually, if you come to the end of your story, but life just keeps on keeping on. I have always quibbled a teeny tiny bit with how we spend these last chapters with just Stu and Tom — and even primarily Stu. We’re in Stu’s mind mostly. It’s no longer an ensemble cast. We started all the way back in Arnette, Texas, at the gas station — Stu is our first point man — and then we also end with so much Stu. I love Stu as a character. It’s just, oh, he wasn’t the one I was the most attached to. How did you feel about Stu being the final stand? Sarah: I loved it. I thought it wasn’t just Stu — it was the combination of Stu, Tom, and Kojak, who I believe is the real hero of this novel. I really liked the way King put the strengths and weaknesses of these three creatures together. It didn’t feel arduous to me. I was excited to see the ways in which they were stripped away and rebuilt. I liked that Nick kept appearing. I liked that we were worried about Franny. And I liked the changing threat — that we went from the heat of the desert and the nuclear fallout to this incredible winter hellscape. And Tom is such a great addition to every scene he’s in. The way they were facing very openly “we might not make it” felt like real learning, as opposed to how people were orienting themselves when Captain Trips first started wreaking havoc. Kojak, the Real Hero Laura: Let’s do a chapter breakdown, because if you’re a regular Stephen King reader, you recognize in this section in particular that he brings out his favorites — which is to say dogs, cars. He loves a car explanation. Sarah: I did feel like there was a little too much detail about what type of car you need to get started, the manual and the automatic. I was like, buddy. Laura: No, this is one of his things. Dogs, cars, ghosts in dreams, recurring themes, and of course abandoned hotels, even if they’re just the Holiday Inn. These pop up in so many of Stephen King’s stories. It’s such a King universe that we’re in. There’s no mistaking what we’re reading. Sarah: How do you feel about Kojak just being such a convenient hero? Kojak can do everything. He can hunt, he can bring the blankets up from the washout, he can go find Tom in the snow. Kojak is a dog of all trades. Laura: Here’s my question, because you’re the Stephen King expert. Does he often use dogs the same way he uses children or people of different abilities — to say, well, they have different skills because they are different? Sarah: Yes. And so that’s what that felt like to me. This is not a run-of-the-mill dog. It’s a special dog. Laura: In the same way that he uses children, there’s an innocence to animals, dogs in particular, that feels like they’re tapped into a god, a universe, a different plane. If you’re a dog lover, you don’t even necessarily deny that. That’s why it’s a convenient tool to use a dog. Sarah: I just want to say, though, that it’s a special dog — because if it was my dog, I would have to eat her by the fire. She would be of absolutely no use. She’s currently snoring underneath my chair. She would not be able to bring me a rabbit or firewood or much else. Laura: Same. Sarah: I’ve never owned that type of dog, but I’ve known dogs like that — super capable, very smart, communicative. I read recently that domesticated dogs have existed longer than agriculture. So I think it could happen. Laura: Definitely could happen. If you’ve ever watched a working dog — a herding dog, certain hunting dogs — they are very capable. I like Kojak. More Kojak. I’m here for it. It didn’t bother me, but also I’m a dog lover. I wonder, if you’re not an animal person, if you’re like, come on with the dog. We’ll have to hear from our community about that. Chapter 74: Tom Shows Up Laura: In Chapter 74, Stu is still broken-legged, starving, and starting to get sick. He heave-hoes himself up out of the washout when he hears the boom and needs to see with his own eyes what’s going on. To me, this is the arduous part — not the plot points. Do we need two pages of him crawling up? Sarah: I didn’t think we needed that part. I get it, he needed to get up there. I was just so happy that once he got up there, Tom showed up. Sarah: Okay, but here’s the immediate thing I thought. You have read this book before. You knew this was going to happen. And still you had all those complaints about them sending Tom. Laura: My complaints about why they sent Tom are separate from Tom ending up being the savior. They sent Tom because Stephen King needed him to save Stu. I still think they took advantage of someone. And here’s the plot weakness: why does he approach Stu when he was very clearly instructed during the hypnosis to stay away from people? Laura: I think King’s implication is that they have to go the same way because they have to take tunnels — unless they’re going to crawl up and down the Rockies. So everybody’s taking the same path because they have to cross through these tunnels. Laura: I don’t mind a plot point of convenience. I get it, they need to be all on the same road. It just needs to make sense. And I like this ending because I love Tom — he’s one of my favorite characters. I just don’t want Tom to be taken advantage of in the first place. Sarah: I feel like this is Stephen King saying he’s not taken advantage of. Look how incredibly capable he is. He is a hero. I love it when Stu says, “You saved my life,” and “You don’t owe me a Christmas present? I wouldn’t be here anymore for you.” Sarah: I felt like Stu waited a month to say that. You’re just saying that now? Anyway, Tom shows back up and Stu is happy to see him, but in the same way as, is this the best helper I’m going to get? Everyone is hesitant on Tom until he shows his capabilities — like Nick with the tornado. Laura: I’ll tell you what drove me nuts about this whole section. Why isn’t Stu asking Tom more questions? He doesn’t ask him a single thing about Vegas. Sarah: Because he’s about to die, Laura. He’s on death’s door. Laura: I don’t mean in his delirium. We’re talking about a man who’s going to throw an impromptu Christmas. He is well enough at points to be like, so Tom, what was happening in Vegas? Did you get us any intel? Literally nothing. Maybe it’s just such a man thing — the man asked no questions. My husband wouldn’t ask Tom a dadgum thing. Sarah: I thought perhaps he was waiting to gather the whole story when there would be more people around, in the Free Zone, so it could be a community interrogation — so Tom doesn’t have to go through it more than once, and so there are other witnesses. I’m projecting a lot, but that was my assumption. I do think Tom is helpful in the same way Kojak is helpful — now suddenly there’s an able-bodied person who can forage in the cars to get medicine, find sleeping bags. That was a huge relief. Sarah: The hand of God. Tom was the hand of God, just like the hand of God touched the bomb. I really felt like Tom was this essential component that you can’t argue showed up out of anything but almost grand design. Laura: Did you h

    53 min

  3. Jun 1

    SLOW READ: The Stand (Chapters 72 - 73)

    Welcome to SLOW READ, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. Hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine We are currently reading The Stand by Stephen King (unabridged version) You can find our full Reading Schedule here Join the SLOW READ community on Substack for bonus episodes, book club meetings, and Side Quests with Sarah & Laura Mentioned in this episode: * Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger * 1984 by George Orwell * Paradise Lost by John Milton * Carrie by Stephen King We Stood Sarah: We have been reading Stephen King’s epic The Stand, and I think we’ve come to the part where we stood. Did we stand? Laura: I think we’re still standing. Sarah: Are we standing? Laura: I think we stood. I think we did it. We are wobbling in our woo! Sarah: We would love for you to join us for our final book club meetings for The Stand. There’s obviously going to be a lot to say as we wrap up this epic novel. All of those are coming up in June. You need to check our Substack for details of our book club meetings, our final episodes, and maybe some announcements for what we’re doing next. All of that is going to be on Substack. You can join us there at slowreadbookclub.com and we’re going to have side quest conversations for you. Tomorrow our side quest will be on summer reading and summer plans. We can’t wait to talk about that with you. Laura: Yep. If you join us at the Slow Read Substack, you will get all of our side quests that we’ve been covering through this time. And they have been wide ranging, friends. Sarah: They really have. Sometimes they go along with the book. Sometimes they don’t. Laura: They don’t. But they are excellent conversations with Sarah and I, only for our Substack members. Over on Slow Read, go to slowreadbookclub.com for all of that and more. Sarah: And more. “Is That It?” — First Reactions to the Ending Sarah: We’re going to talk about chapter 72 and 73, and I deserve an award for not texting you the second I finished the section. It was hard. If I had finished this section before we saw each other in person for the first time in 12 years, I wouldn’t have been able to resist. I didn’t really plan to not read it until after, but I’m glad it worked out that way or I would not have been able to keep my mouth shut. Laura: Because you would have wanted to talk about it. Sarah: It’s so talkable. We stood. Of course I want to talk about it. I’m curious what you think reading it for the first time. Did you feel like dun dun dun? Did you feel the music swell in your head? Laura: Yeah, I definitely did. I wanted to just bare minimum text the wide-eyed emoji, but I didn’t — again, because I deserve an award. And my husband, who had been doing a good job kind of keeping pace with us, sped ahead and finished the book, so he’s been saying some cryptic stuff. It got me all keyed up. But yeah, it kind of snuck up on me, but not really. By the time you get to chapter 73, by the time you’re in Larry’s head, you’re like, okay, we’re here, we’re gonna stand. But then it’s over kind of quickly, and so you’re just like, what just happened? Sarah: I know. That’s what I kind of wanted to ask slow readers — if you’re like, “is that it?” Nicholas was definitely that reaction. Those were the cryptic comments he was making. It was very much, “Is that it, Vang?” Laura: Is that how you felt when you read it the first time? Sarah: Definitely. I was kind of just reading, bopping along, and didn’t realize that was it. I mean, there’s still a little bit more to go, but I feel like it’s a lesson in — it’s in the journey, not the destination. Laura: Yes, but I like the destination. Okay, now we’re getting too close to chapter 73. Let’s back up. Let’s do chapter 72. Chapter 72: The Walk and the Question of Fate Laura: So, chapter 72, we pick back up with our traveling party — Stu, Larry, Glenn, Ralph, and Kojak, the true star of the traveling party — as they continue their grueling walk across the United States. They’re averaging like… I really appreciated the mileage chart. I thought that was very helpful, as a person who travels a lot and plans itineraries. Sarah: I was with them in their analysis around the campfire of like, why are we doing it this way? They know why they’re doing it. Mother Abigail told them: walk with just the clothes on your back. You can’t take food. You can’t take packs. You have to survive this hundreds — 400-mile walk, or whatever it is, 500-mile walk. But I sort of was with them when they’re like, we know why we’re doing this, but why are we doing this? And like, can we cheat a little bit? Laura: I really liked this conversation they’re having about why are we doing this at the beginning of chapter 72, and we get to your theory that you’ve brought up over and over again. They’re having a conversation mainly about the wear and tear on their bodies at first, and then Glenn says: “And 50 years of confirmed agnosticism, it seems to be my fate to follow an old black woman’s God into the jaws of death. If that’s my fate, then that’s my fate. End of story. But I’d rather walk than ride, and when you get right down to it, walking takes longer — consequently I live longer by a few days anyway.” So I thought, here we are, here’s your theme. Is it just fate? Is this story just one long journey of fate? Sarah: Well, I have been talking about this for six months. But I don’t know that that is a direct correlation to them having to do it bare, you know? No food, nothing. Now, I mean, they really talk about how fasting clears the mind. I liked all that. And there’s been a walking theme as much as there’s been a fate theme through this book. Remember? Stu walked out — he walked off his fear of the hospital. Trashcan Man walked himself into delirium. Nadine’s walking. Everybody’s walking all the time. Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk. So it does feel like a sort of preparation for the mind, body, and spirit, if you will, for what’s to come. But it also feels like an unnecessary burden to have to figure out your survival. Like they’re eating chips out of people’s cars with dead people. Laura: I’m into it. Sarah: I’m into it. Laura: Because there is a grounding that happens when you are viscerally aware of your own body and its survival. These men would not have had the bravery necessary in chapter 73 if they’d just taken a car. Sarah: No doubt in my mind. Laura: Because they had to know what they’re made of. Sarah: You’ve got to know what you’re made of. You’ve got to know how far you can push your body, how far you can push your mind. And really, I think this physical experience strips away that dichotomy. You know, the closest analogy I can find in my own life is labor. I had three nine-pound babies with not a drop of drugs. I gave birth to two at home — and sort of knowing that I had to get myself through it, like me and my body and a midwife. I’m not a free birther, please don’t message me. But it’s exactly what they describe. It’s so clarifying in a way that’s not intellectual, that’s not, “I’m walking through these steps.” You do something like that, and that dichotomy of my mind, my body — it just goes away. It’s like people when they talk about running marathons, or extreme marathoners, like pushing your body but really yourself, all of you, to the brink. In this way, I think it prepares you to do some really hard shit. Laura: And these guys, they all know it. They’re on the way to do some really hard shit. Sarah: Yeah. And there’s lots of metaphors or references. I like your birth metaphor, but then there’s biblical stuff throughout, even more so in chapter 73. So there’s walking in the wilderness, there’s people taking pilgrimages. I mean, it feels like a human experience, kind of like what you’re describing — we put ourselves through this. Laura: At the end of the day, they had to put the steps in front of them. They had to make the miles. They had to get over aches and pains and hunger. They were instructed, but then they chose. You know what I’m saying? Glenn Is 57 (And the Dialogue Gets a Little Stilted) Sarah: Before we get too far into this chapter, can we talk about this long conversation about how old Glenn is, and then it’s revealed that he’s 57? What the hell, guys? Laura: I know. My husband’s older than that. Jeff is older than that. Oh my God, they’re just talking — the way they’re talking about his arthritis, I’m like, poor Glenn must be like late 60s, early 70s. 57. Steven, my dog, that’s not that old. Sarah: It might have been a little bit older in the 70s, though, in fairness. I will also say, because I’m reading the whole thing aloud, that this was the first time in the whole book where their conversations — mostly in chapter 72 — I struggled with reading aloud. It was the most stilted. It felt the least flowy. It felt the most sort of like… Laura: Preachy. Sarah: Yeah. And like bookish, as opposed to — there was not a natural cadence to these characters we’ve been with. Because I’ve read all of these characters, I’ve read them aloud for a thousand pages now. And in these exchanges — and I don’t know if that’s purposeful or not — I just was like, the dialogue here is a little weird. It felt a little more like clunky book writing, as opposed to in the past. Especially Glenn, who I love so much, one of my favorite characters in the whole thing. He’s been very flowy throughout, and this was a weird one to read aloud. I wondered how that came across in either the audio or if you were reading it in print, if anyone else noticed that. Laura: I mean, a little bit. I’ve had a stronger reaction to other sections where the dialogue feels like just Stephen King has some things he wants to get

    1h 2m

  4. May 28

    Join Laura for STEPHEN KING SUMMER 2026!

    The 6th annual Stephen King Summer Book Club kicks off next week and I want you to be a part of it! Stephen King Summer is part of Laura’s Secret Stuff Substack and when you sign up for it, you’ll get the Stephen King Summer Book Club + all her other Secret Stuff content AND the full Stephen King Summer archives. JOIN STEPHEN KING SUMMER For Stephen King Summer 2026, we’re reading: HOLLY The Life of Chuck CUJO and we’ll do watch alongs each month in addition to our zoom book club meetings. I would love to see some Slow Readers over on Secret Stuff this summer! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit slowread.substack.com/subscribe

    8 min

  5. May 18

    SLOW READ: The Stand (Chapters 65 - 71)

    Welcome to SLOW READ, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. Hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine We are currently reading The Stand by Stephen King (unabridged version) You can find our full Reading Schedule here Join the SLOW READ community on Substack for bonus episodes, book club meetings, and Side Quests with Sarah & Laura Mentioned in this episode: * Michael Pollan on the Ezra Klein Show * Rosemary’s Baby (1968 film) * The Sopranos The Announcement Before We Begin Laura: Hello, I’m Laura Tremaine. Sarah: And I’m Sarah Stewart Holland. Laura: This is Slow Read, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. And we are in the final chapters of The Stand by Stephen King. Sarah: If you have been reading along with us since January, lordy, things are finally happening. And if you are binging and catching up with us, well, welcome. Laura: There is a lot to discuss, including whether or not Randall Flagg is a bride’s dream come true. Sarah: He is not. Laura: Spoiler for the whole episode. He is not. Sarah: Now, we would love for you to join us for our last couple of book club meetings for The Stand. Our May meeting is next week. And then we’ll have a big final meeting in June to process the end of The Stand and our whole slow reading experience together. You will want to be there for these meetings because they’re going to be very satisfying to discuss this novel after being with these characters for six months — and each other for that matter. And we’ll be revealing what our next Slow Read is going to be. It’s a big one. It’s a big announcement. Laura: These book club meetings are for our Substack paying members only. And when you join us over there at the Slow Read Substack, you will get not only our book club Zooms with me and Sarah, but you’ll also get a host of other goodies, like all of our Side Quests where we share our personal stories about our dreams, death, parenthood, love triangles. Don’t you want to hear us talk about those things that are tangentially related to The Stand that we have been discussing for the last five, six months? Join us over on slowreadbookclub.com. That’s on Substack. The Balance of Good and Evil (Before We Even Get to Chapter 65) Laura: Okay, Sarah. Chapters 65 through 71. Wow. Sarah: It’s weird because Stephen King has spent the whole book setting up how powerful Randall Flagg is. And then the closer they get, he’s starting to poke holes in that power — which felt like a lot of what this section was. But it hasn’t really lessened my trepidation for our boys as they get closer to Vegas. You know what I mean? Laura: A lot of things I think are happening. He is poking holes in how all-powerful he is, but it feels like sort of the yin and yang to what he also did with Mother Abagail. Sarah: Yeah. Laura: So there’s a real balancing happening in this part of the book, which for me was a little jarring — to go from all of these hundreds of pages spending in the Free Zone with these characters that we love and how they’re setting up their community and all this, and then now to spend the last couple sections in Vegas. I’m like, this is a decidedly different vibe. And I agree with you. It doesn’t make him any less scary. Sarah: But that’s because we know from life experience — not to mention our own literary tastes — that just because he’s not all-powerful doesn’t make him any less terrifying. It’s almost he’s almost more terrifying now that he’s feeling a little desperate. Laura: Right, because he’s backed into a corner. People backed into a corner are dangerous, for sure. Sarah: There’s a lot that happened in this section that sort of brought up so many questions that we have been teetering on the edge of in terms of: what is good and evil? What is all-powerfulness? Who is Mother Abagail and Randall Flagg, like — are they, if they’re not exactly God and the devil, are they angels, demons? And there’s just a lot of questions about those characters, but then also about our community characters in terms of like, nobody is all bad or all good. Laura: He feels all bad to me, but the bad is complicated. Well, he does. He might be all bad — but I guess I meant the community people as they’re starting to have doubts. Sarah: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s what opens up the most interesting moments, especially with Lloyd and Nadine and everyone not operating out of a place of pure fear. Because the holes that King pokes in Randall Flagg’s power break the spell just enough that people in Vegas can start to assess their own decision-making. In the same way that Mother Abagail disappearing freed people up to take leadership roles and make some decisions in the Free Zone — it’s a very similar situation, I think. Laura: Yeah, that’s what I was feeling in the balance of it all. When Mother Abagail goes on her walk to the woods, it’s kind of disappointing, but you still have this human nature thing of like, all right, we’ll buck up, we got to come together and do it in her absence. But when we start to see the failings or the humanness of Randall Flagg — “disappointing” is not a word that covers it. It feels like terrifying. Like, oh no. Because we know men like this who start to lose their grip on power — if it slips even a little bit, they get very erratic and dangerous. Sarah: Well, and the reasoning of the people around him — they’re like, oh no. I did so many things, I made so many decisions, based on the premise that he is protecting us. These people have made some moral and ethical sacrifices on the premise that he was gonna keep them safe. And he couldn’t even keep them safe from Trashcan Man. But I’m skipping ahead — let’s start with chapter 65. Chapter 65: Randall Flagg in the Desert Laura: Chapter 65 opens with Randall Flagg out in the desert. He’s just cooking a rabbit and thinking. This is, I think, not the first time we’re in Randall Flagg’s head, but it’s the first time this whole section where we’re getting a bit more of a fuller picture of how he thinks. And it is substantially more human than we’ve experienced him. Sarah: He’s frustrated with himself and his powers. It’s almost like he has also taken his powers for granted. He cannot see who the third spy is. He cannot figure that out. He’s baffled that Harold Lauder attempted to betray him in the end by shooting at Nadine. He’s having trouble levitating, which is this — Laura: Oh, my God. Sarah: Well, considering what happens to poor Nadine, I don’t think so. Laura: He comes through in the end, as the case may be. Sarah: Oh, my God. I was so freaked out at the beginning of this chapter — how he would look at the wolves and they would fight. We’re going through a lot of the diminishment of his powers, but King is still like, don’t forget this dude is scary. He would just look at the wolves around him and they would start to bite each other and fight each other, and I thought, oh, that’s just such creepy dark imagery. That he is just like violence personified and a mere glance can bring it out in these creatures. I was very freaked out by that. Laura: Yeah, he’s so creepy in this part. But to me it was giving more demon than devil. Sarah: Yeah, and I thought it was so interesting how he talked about how he couldn’t remember his life or experiences before the super flu. He was no longer strictly a man if he had ever been one. He was like an onion slowly peeling away one layer at a time — only it was the trappings of humanity that seemed to be peeling away. Organized reflection, memory, possibly even free will, if there ever had been such a thing. He can only remember the events since the super flu. He was losing himself is how it’s described. So to me that’s so interesting. That feels like something that would happen as his power grew — but maybe there was something in his power and connection and ability to control other humans that was really linked to his own human experiences. Laura: Well, and he also says — this is skipping ahead, but it’s relevant — he says later in this section that there might be other versions of him. What if there was one in China, what if there was one in Russia? He’s kind of assuming there are other versions of him, but that’s something to deal with in ten years is how he thinks about it. But as this whole story has been set up with Mother Abagail representing the good and Randall Flagg representing the bad — now that Mother Abagail has died, it’s interesting that it’s not then just like evil reigns. Because the evil is faltering. The evil is faltering in the face of her death. Characters throughout this entire section are starting to mention: this all changed when she died. When that power — it’s like they keep each other in check. There is a natural order of things, and when there is one to balance the other, that’s what keeps it in check. Now that one has died, instead of evil becoming total dominance, it’s become chaos and confusion. Sarah: She must have known that. She must have had a sense that that was going to happen. I think there is a theme here, beginning with Nadine and continuing, that this isn’t going to end the way everybody expected it to. Nadine thought she knew what was going to happen when she got to him, that she was going to have this ecstasy. Instead, it was horrific. Nadine and the Desert Laura: I underlined the whole thing — because I think it’s one long sentence. He battered into her invader destroyer and the cold blood gushed down her thighs and then he was in her all the way up to her womb and the moon was in her eyes cold and silver — and it just goes. It’s like a paragraph. The sentence just keeps going and going and going describing that. It’s wild. Sarah: So after he cooks the rabbit and has

    58 min

  6. May 11

    SLOW READ: The Stand (Chapters 61 - 64)

    Welcome to SLOW READ, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. Hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine We are currently reading The Stand by Stephen King (unabridged version) You can find our full Reading Schedule here Join the SLOW READ community on Substack for bonus episodes, book club meetings, and Side Quests with Sarah & Laura If you prefer to read instead of listen, below is a cleaned up transcript of the episode as well as links to all the books and Substacks we mentioned in this episode…and several fun bonus links and videos! Mentioned in this episode: * The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien * The Tune of Things: Is Consciousness God? (Christian Wilman in Harper’s, 2025) * Moby Dick by Herman Melville * The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne * Paradise Lost by John Milton * “Top of the World” by The Chicks (Official Video) * Stand By Me (1986 film) — IMDb The Writing in This Section Sarah: Laura, after a very long time in the free zone, we are back with Randall Flagg and his crew, which have been varying levels of infiltrated by the committee spies. How did you feel about this section? Laura: I thought these particular chapters were some of the best written of the whole entire book. I have two standout sections that I consider the best in terms of incredible sentences and just the craft of it — this is one of them. Not a ton of wild imagination necessarily, but the sentences in this section, I was like, oh, that’s so well written. How he looped back several different things, and then the section many hundreds of pages ago with Glenn Bateman — that one felt really well written too, really poetic. But this section feels different. Like he was in a flow state, Mr. King, when he did this part. Sarah: I totally agree. I thought it was really engaging. And I also want to say — in this section as a whole, King makes a ton of literary references. He references Edgar Allan Poe, he references Lord of the Rings. I looked up the law book that Judge Ferris is reading, the one King mentions multiple times, and that’s a real book — it’s literally about racial social justice. I looked at it and was like, okay, he is doing some things. King is doing some things. This is pre-Black Lives Matter as a movement, but obviously these conversations were being had. We’re coming out of the 60s, back in the 70s when this was first written — it makes sense. Laura: And back to the writing style changing — I feel like that’s also part of the fact that we’re now in Vegas, and we haven’t been there for hundreds and hundreds of pages, and the writing is just different. It almost feels like these little sections — Judge Ferris, Dana, and then Harold — could almost be novellas with just a little more structure put in. They’re so well done. But it’s a really different tone from the time we’ve been spending in the free zone, which is a little folksy, a little quote-unquote normal novel stuff. This is really different, and that feels intentional. The Vegas parts have a different flavor. And I also like that he’s making the connection that not everyone in Vegas is evil. People are people. It’s not black and white. Chapter 61: Poor Judge Ferris Sarah: Well, let’s start with chapter 61, because poor Judge Ferris doesn’t actually make it to Vegas. Laura: God bless him. Bless his heart. Sarah: There’s a lot going on in this chapter — the plot happens, but also King is pulling together a lot of things. So we find Judge Ferris making his cross-country trip, and we know that Randall Flagg has sent patrols to stop him, to kill him — but please, please, please protect his head, because I’m going to send it back to the free zone and freak them all the way out. Some very specific instructions. At first I’m like, why are we taking this beloved character and sending him directly to his death? But there are two moments where I start to see the pieces coming together. The first is Judge Ferris is in a hotel room and a crow taps on his window. And Judge Ferris realizes this crow is Randall Flagg. He pulls a gun — and what I thought the most affecting part was, the crow slash Randall Flagg kind of panics. Oh no, if he shoots me, that’s it. Luckily for the crow slash Randall Flagg, the safety’s on. But Stephen King is giving us this insight to realize he is not immortal. He’s very powerful, but he can take on these other forms, and that means he’s vulnerable the way those forms are vulnerable. Which I thought was really interesting. Laura: Well, I also thought it was interesting because we haven’t encountered much supernaturalness for many hundreds of pages. It’s been kind of practical for a while. Sarah: What are you talking about? Are you forgetting the drive-in scene where he took over the speakers and was speaking to Nadine? Laura: Yes, but it’s all Randall Flagg–based. The percentage of supernaturalness in this story is on the lower side than I think most people might expect from Stephen King. This has been more of a practical, post-apocalyptic novel. Sarah: We’ve just spent a lot of time in committee meetings and town meetings. Even when Mother Abigail’s healing Franny, it is a moment among a lot of secretarial work. Laura: Yeah. I was like, bring it, Crow. I was ready for something like this to happen. Sarah: But there’s also — not just that the crow gives us insight into Flagg’s vulnerabilities — the whole time I was thinking, why are you so worried about him? Why are you so paranoid about Judge Ferris making it all the way to Vegas? You know he’s a spy, you hunt him out immediately. There is sort of a “thou dost protest too much” situation. Why are you sending parties all over the United States to stop this one guy? Laura: Don’t you think this is the first real glimpse we have that Randall Flagg is scared? Sarah: Yes. Exactly. I think that’s what this whole section is about — he is paranoid, he is not all-powerful. For one thing, he has to depend on animals to be in a lot of places at once, which is a vulnerability we’re learning. And then he has to depend on these dum-dums like Bobby Terry — what a name — to institute his orders, and they’re ding-dongs who can’t do it. The one instruction was: don’t shoot him in the head. And Bobby Terry kills Judge Ferris so dramatically and terribly that he’s unidentifiable. So even if they sent the head back to the free zone, they’d be like, who dis, we don’t know. Laura: I feel like there are parallels here — not just to our current moment of a wannabe all-powerful dictator, but to past moments too. There’s a lot of bravado in that type of person, but there’s an underlying fear. And also, the people surrounding them doing their bidding are statistically often dum-dums. Sarah: Well, that’s definitely Dana’s observation in the next chapter — that there are more ding-dongs in Vegas than there are in the Free Zone. Laura: Yeah, but they work harder. Sarah: They work harder. Then Bobby Terry screws up, and Randall Flagg transforms into some — I couldn’t quite put it together. Beast, man, crow? Laura: All I know is there are teeth involved. That part I picked up on. There were teeth, and he died in a very gruesome manner. I wasn’t sure — maybe weasel-y, animal-y? Sarah: Did you have to get a map out and be like, wait, the sentries are in Oregon? How do we get from the Rockies to Vegas? Laura: I was so confused. Sarah: He’s going up and around, obviously. Listen, I’m a big national parks person, so my baseline geography of the mountain ranges and the middle west to far west is probably a little better than most. Laura: It must be, because I literally was like, Oregon, where are we? What’s going on? I just think everybody — including Randall Flagg, because apparently he materializes like a ghost — is moving around awful quick in this story without airplanes or helicopters, and sometimes just on bicycles. Sarah: Okay, I didn’t want to nitpick this because I complained earlier in the book about why they were all using bikes. But now that we are into cars, like Judge Ferris doing all the driving, I do have a nitpick of — can you just stop at the empty gas stations and get gas? Laura: I mean, yes, I guess. Maybe. But it must be a big deal, because poor old Larry is still out there remembering the fact that he could have lost his fingers getting gas and that Harold had such a better way of doing it. Sarah: And also, I am living in 2026, but they did address it — he got a key from the empty front desk and just let himself into a room. Laura: I’m assuming it’s a physical key, because now everything would be digital. This is the 70s, where they had physical keys. You’d need electricity to program the key cards. Sarah: I did think that would be a different thing if this type of super flu took out everybody in 2026. The digital dependency we have now would add a layer of complication. Laura: Alright, Judge Ferris. You’re the best. R.I.P. Next chapter. Chapter 62: Dana Juergens, Absolute Badass Sarah: Dana Juergens. What a badass. Laura: What a badass. What a badass. Why has he been keeping Dana Juergens from us this whole time? I’m kind of angry. Sarah: Did your book have an illustration of her? Laura: Yeah, but she looks — it’s a weird illustration. It’s not how I picture Dana. She looks like a man. And I just don’t think that would be Lloyd’s type, because that’s who she’s sleeping with. I was picturing her as curvy and— Sarah: I love where he writes that she always thought women looked best on their backs. Like, are you saying that, Stephen King, or is she saying that? Laura: I feel like you’re just sharing your thoughts, dear sir. Sarah: I did like the Vegas of it all — she’s in a round bed with a round mirror. That tracks. So she’s sleeping with Lloyd, gathering all kinds

    47 min

  7. Apr 27

    SLOW READ: The Stand (Chapters 56 - 60)

    Welcome to SLOW READ, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. Hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine We are currently reading The Stand by Stephen King (unabridged version) You can find our full Reading Schedule here Join the SLOW READ community on Substack for bonus episodes, book club meetings, and Side Quests with Sarah & Laura ______ Mentioned in this episode: * Giants in the Earth by Ole Edvart Rølvaag * The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood * How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan * Contagion (film, 2011) Living Inside the Book Laura: And after a few hundred pages of peaceful community building, some stuff really happens in this section finally. Sarah: I’d say so. I found myself traveling recently to Vegas of all places. And I was driving and I looked up at the moon and it was like fully half. And I’m like, oh, we’re not to the full moon for Tom Cullen. As if I have to wait for the full moon in my life for him to come back. I’m like real in it. I noticed every mention of Boulder. I noticed every mention when I was walking around Vegas. It feels like almost at the pace it’s happening. I’m a little stressed and I’m just in it. The anticipation of what’s going to happen next, especially after this section, is very, very high. Laura: I am having a similar experience by doing this so slowly. I’m reading it so differently than I would read any other novel, which changes your relationship to the character. Of course it’s a reread for me. Where if you’re mildly irritated by a character, you’re just reading so fast that you don’t really sit with those emotions. You’re like, well, that’s sort of annoying, and you just keep it moving because you’re propelled by the plot or by finishing or whatever. By doing it slowly, it really changes the way I think about the characters because, like you said, we’re kind of in it real time, like they’re friends. In the past, when I didn’t have much sympathy for Larry Underwood because he just seemed very narcissistic, on this read, doing it slowly, I’m sort of seeing the fullness of his character differently—and having a lot of sympathy for him until we get to this section and he wore me slick. Sarah: This is always my experience with slow reads. I read War and Peace last year and I just felt like I lived about 20 percent of my life in Russia all year long. When you do a slow read, you also live a little bit in the book. You’re not hopping in and out. You’re not speeding through. You’re just existing there and soaking up all the slow changes and the atmosphere and the annoying people and the people you like and everybody’s choices. That’s why I like it so much. Laura: Because when you read quickly, you get the high level of what an author is doing with a character. You understand if they’re meant to be manipulative or the hero. But when you go slowly, you just feel like you know them. You can sort of think about this book when you’re driving around town doing your errands, like you would think about people you know in real life. It’s just really a different experience, but I’m loving that part. Sarah: Yeah, it’s the best. I love hanging with characters like that. Even when they’re all dying. Even when they’re all dying. Laura: Which brings us to the bummer of this section. Chapter 56: Babies, Bombs, and Bad News Laura: Chapter 56, we start out — are the babies dying? This is rough. I feel like this theme is going to hit the mothers among us. The beginning of this chapter, Ralph stops Stu and tells him that a new group is coming in to join the Free Zone. There’s about 40 of them. Wonderful news. There’s a doctor among them. But not so great news is that one of them, Mrs. Wentworth, was pregnant with twins. She delivered on the road as they were walking. And both of her twins die under mysterious circumstances. Everyone’s mind immediately goes to: did the babies breathe air and immediately get the super flu? Sarah: That doesn’t make sense virology-wise, because I’m an amateur virologist now. It would not hang out that long with no host for months and months in the hot summer sun. Laura: But you don’t think the immune people might carry it, but they’re immune to it? Sarah: I mean, I guess, but it has to have something to live off of. There are real virologists listening right now being like, hey, this is why you’re an amateur. Laura: But I wonder if — was there something to what they were trying to say about because the babies were conceived before the flu hit? Is there something then, or if their biological dad had it, does that make a difference? Sarah: Yeah, that seems to be their theory. The smaller story of Mrs. Wentworth is so much like a story in a book I read for Well-Read Mom called Giants in the Earth, which is about Swedish pioneers in like Minnesota, 1800s. This woman along the way loses a child and she kind of loses her mind a little bit, doesn’t want anybody to have the bodies. It really, really reminded me of that story. The idea that if you were traveling to what you perceived as safety with your children or while pregnant and then to lose one of them — I think it’s just a really unique psychological trauma. And with this, the whole conversation got me thinking about with the “no more babies” — this is what I always say about Handmaid’s Tale. Like, people are like, it would never get that bad. I’m like, I don’t think you understand how quickly people would go crazy if there were no babies. I 100% believe people would lose their ever-loving minds and would be able to look past or accept any manner of horror and abuses if they thought it would get them babies. Laura: Well, and it makes King’s choice to have Franny be pregnant such a stroke of genius to this particular story. It really came together in this section because it raises the stakes. Not just Franny’s pregnancy, but like all of humanity’s pregnancy. And it just makes it all more emotional. I’m a little worried — she hasn’t felt the baby move but one time. I keep thinking that too, but she’s not due till January and it’s August. And you don’t feel them as early with your first baby. Sarah: I lost a pregnancy at 20 weeks and then got pregnant way too soon afterwards with Felix. And just that obsession — like all-consuming obsession with feeling the baby move and making sure everything is okay. I remember my doctor being like, come in anytime, anytime. And Felix — he was such a jerk. Anytime they would do an ultrasound, he’d be asleep. I’d be like, move, you jerk. Don’t you understand my stress level? And the doctor’s like, no, he doesn’t. And he doesn’t care. Laura: With your first one, you really don’t know. Eventually it becomes unmistakable that the baby is moving. But there are so many twinges and little flutters, and you want it so badly to feel it that you sometimes will it to happen. Franny being pregnant is really becoming an important part of this story. And story-wise, it also really matters that Stu is not the biological dad. There’s a lot happening here. Sarah: That feels... Mary and Joseph. Laura: Biblical, yes. This whole book has so many biblical things. Well, and we find out later in this section that Nadine’s going to get impregnated by the dark man, which sounds unpleasant to me, personally. Sarah: Cold. Ew. Nadine, Leo, and the Question of Loyalty Laura: So at the beginning of Chapter 56, Nadine is back in her original house, packing up. And she doesn’t even realize that in the corner, Leo — formerly known as Joe — her little savage companion, is sitting in the corner in his underpants. Are we supposed to love him or what? Because I’m creeped out by him. Sarah: I mean, Stephen King plays around a lot with powerful, psychic kids. And I don’t think they’re supposed to be deeply comforting. Because there is something about when it’s coming from someone who fundamentally doesn’t understand the world yet and isn’t mature enough to have a prefrontal cortex, it just hits different. It reminds me of Michael Pollan’s book How to Change Your Mind — he talks about what happened in the ‘60s and why people got so freaked out by psychedelics. In traditional cultures, when you’re expanding your consciousness, it’s like your guide is old. But in the ‘60s it was teenagers, and everyone was like, whoa, everything’s upside down, this is no good. That’s what Leo reminds me of. I’m interested in what he has to say, but it’s in a container that feels like it’s not capable of containing it. Laura: Well, and also it’s interesting that Nadine has a real moment of self-awareness here where she realized she preferred him as Joe, when he was nonverbal and violent and she was the one keeping him in check. Once he meets Mother Abigail and becomes Leo, remembers his name, starts speaking — he chooses to be in a more traditional situation with Larry and Lucy more often and didn’t have as much attachment to Nadine. She discards him, which she realizes about herself. And it’s just telling you a lot about Nadine. She keeps trying to distract herself from what her mission is. She is being called to the dark man and she keeps trying to find reasons not to go. She’s trying to self-sabotage, but she stays on the path ultimately. Sarah: What confuses me is that Leo has this advanced perception of what’s going on. He has some sort of psychic connection. He understood that Mother Abigail was going to make it across the river. So why is he drawn to Nadine? He won’t enter the house with Harold, but he’s so sad Nadine is gone. I’m like, dude, either you understand who’s on the light or the dark or you don’t. Laura: I know. You can’t even argue that it’s because she’s wishy-washy about it all, because so is Harold. Back and forth they kind of go. And I don

    1h 13m

  8. Apr 20

    SLOW READ: The Stand (Chapters 52 - 55)

    Welcome to SLOW READ, where we tackle the books you’ve always wanted to read at a pace you can handle. Hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine We are currently reading The Stand by Stephen King (unabridged version) You can find our full Reading Schedule here Join the SLOW READ community on Substack for bonus episodes, book club meetings, and Side Quests with Sarah & Laura If you prefer to read instead of listen, below is a cleaned up transcript of the episode as well as links to all the books and Substacks we mentioned in this episode…and several fun bonus links and videos! Mentioned in this episode: * The Stand by Stephen King * Cujo by Stephen King * Kojak (CBS, 1973–1978, starring Telly Savalas) * The Message (Bible in contemporary language) * Erin Hicks Moon’s Substack * Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey (the 90s movie with the two dogs and the cat) Welcome to Slow Read: The Stand. We are your hosts Sarah Stewart Holland and Laura Tremaine. This is episode [N] of Slow Read: The Stand. If you prefer to read instead of listen, below is a cleaned up transcript of the episode as well as links to all the books and Substacks we mentioned in this episode…and several fun bonus links and videos! Mentioned in this episode: * The Stand by Stephen King * Cujo by Stephen King * Kojak (CBS, 1973–1978, starring Telly Savalas) * The Message (Bible in contemporary language) * Erin Hicks Moon’s Substack * Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey (the 90s movie with the two dogs and the cat) Chapter 52 - Mother Abagail’s Crisis Sarah: We are now deep into Stephen King’s The Stand. Laura: Deep. Sarah: Deep. And this week we’re talking about chapters 52 through 55 and all the ridiculous things it contains. Do you like what I did there with “ridiculous things”? Laura: Oh yes. God. Killing it. Laura: All right — we are now in the heat of August and the chessboard is being set. We spent all our time in this section in the Free Zone, where society is forming, spies are aligning and alighting on their missions. We are burying bodies, having elections, thinking about law enforcement. But first, we start in Chapter 52, where our Free Zone fearless leader is actually a not-so-fearless leader. We start with Mother Abagail, who seems to be having a bit of a spiritual crisis. What did you think of this section as a whole? Because I was reading it thinking — is this a horror book? Is this a literary book? What are we doing? Sarah: I got a little bored when I was writing up the summary and kind of getting ready for this episode. A lot of things happened that I thought were interesting as I was reviewing it. But while reading it, I kept putting it off. I think I was just a little — I’m ready for something to happen. And I’m also terrified one of these people I like is going to get killed. So I’m both ready for something to happen and dreading it. Laura: Well, what was interesting is that we are deep into this book. This is the final third, maybe even the final quarter. And this felt like a lot of world-building. We are world-building 800 pages in, which is interesting as a writer and a craft storyteller, but as a reader it definitely changes the pace. Also, because I’m reading every word of this book aloud, I stop and underline or make little notes when I get to interesting things I want to talk about. And this section, more than any section we have read thus far, I made the least amount of notes. Almost no notes or underlines until Chapter 55 — the last chapter we’re going to talk about today. And then I had several, all kind of coming from the same source, which is Judge Ferris. But in general, this hundred-page section — it was not a nothing burger because there are a lot of important things that sort of happen here, but nothing super notable or memorable to me. Sarah: Yeah. I would be interested in how much this got changed between the 70s version and the 90s version. It was too much logistics for me. Though I mean — this first section in Chapter 52 with Mother Abagail, where she’s really battling it out, I thought was incredible. I’m always struck by Stephen King’s knowledge of the Bible. I underlined: Acts was the last book in the Bible where doctrine was backed up by miracle. And I was like, wow, that sounds true. Did I double-check it? I didn’t. But it sounded true. Laura: So much religion. There’s always a lot of religion in this book. And it’s really humming in the background in this section, because what we get from this first moment is that she is struggling Sarah: — she feels like she’s battling pride, and she also learns that it was not God who saved her from the weasels. It was Randall Flagg who called the weasels off. I thought that was really scary. She kind of feels like God has gone silent, so she pieces out. And that changes the dynamics of so much within the Free Zone, because she’s not there as their guidance. Laura: Did this change the way you think about her? Sarah: No, because I felt like this was very true to who we knew she was — someone very centrally focused on her relationship with God, consistently hesitant, even afraid, of what she’s been called to do. The way she was battling with this, and seeing the way they kept leaning on her and leaning on her, which was building her pride and changing the way they were thinking about themselves — it rang really true to me. What about you? Laura: Well, it’s very Jesus-y to take to the wilderness and pray about it. I thought it did change things for me a little, because it can read as abandonment — of your post. Maybe not the initial day she leaves, but as the week to ten days goes on and she’s still gone. I mean, I guess you can also see it as a fulfillment of her role. She got everyone here. That was her main part in this history, and now she’s going to peace out. But as she’s wrangling with her pride and who really called off the weasels and going into that mind swirl — I didn’t totally believe her. Whereas in the past, every inner monologue we got from Mother Abagail, you believed her. You had a lot of trust in her discernment and her connection to God or the universe. In this section we’re meant to follow her mind swirl as she tries to get right with God, but because that has wavered, it made me waver in her. And not to jump ahead, but as time goes on and she’s still not there and they come to the conclusion of like, we’re running this society without her — I also felt sort of the same way. Sarah: Well, and I think that’s the point. They were becoming too dependent on her and it was affecting her. It is one thing to be locked in through a process of discernment when you’re by yourself. You know, it’s super easy to discern when my kids aren’t here. But once you have hundreds of thousands of people all looking at you like, what should we do? Should we bury the body? Should we form a law enforcement agency? Should we be in charge? Do you want to be our president and veto everything? I can see how that would disrupt the signal, if you will. The idea that this is about her and God — this is not about her being the leader of this community. So she has to go and get back to that. And the fallout is big within the community, but largely positive, I felt like. Sarah: I mean, from the moment this happens, you have so many people who want to go searching for her and save her, and they have to debate — should we go search for her? She left of her own accord, but she’s an old woman. And I think it was very interesting that in the face of all this debate, it became an opening for Harold to assert some leadership and build some goodwill with Stu and Ralph, and go look for her. Laura: Except that, for the democracy of it all, you’ve removed your main check and balance. If you take away the person who has the veto power — she’s not in charge of everything, but she had that — someone has abdicated the throne here. Sarah: No, that’s exactly it. You live in America in 2026. The temptation, when you have one person, to continue to consolidate power within that one person and make it easy on the rest of us who don’t have to go through the messy work of democracy — it’s oh so very tempting. The check is the people. The check is the other people on the committee — who are voting in concert right now, but that might not always be true. Sarah: What we’ve seen over the last several years, several decades in America, is it’s just so easy to organize around, to just be like, well, we’re really just dealing with the one person in charge. Laura: Our actual real-life America in 2026 moment in time is what has this top of mind for me — why it felt more prominent as a theme than maybe when I’ve read this in the past. I agree with what you’re saying theoretically, but I also feel like with Mother Abagail — she wasn’t trying to rule the whole thing, she was just a check, a balance, a veto power, because she does have a connection to the above. I mean, she wasn’t wanting it, but they wanted her to. And I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing. I hear what you’re saying about the power belonging with the people, but they haven’t established enough of a hierarchy or structure to check one another. Sarah: We’re getting to the town meeting. Laura: I know, but what I’m just trying to underline is that it does change the way I think about her character. It does, for me. Harold, Franny, and the Return of Kojak Sarah: They do decide to go search for her. There is a search party — Stu, Ralph, Harold. Harold goes on a real journey over the course of this section, and it starts here when they’re out in the middle of nowhere and he brings a gun and thinks about just killing Stu and Ralph right there. He’s a little bit disarmed by Stu’s kindness, but he’s still giving in to the dark impulses. He’s thinking constantly about his

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About

Sarah Stewart Holland & Laura Tremaine slow read Stephen King's classic The Stand. slowread.substack.com

Information

  • Creator
    Sarah Stewart Holland & Laura Tremaine
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    23
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Sarah Stewart Holland
  • Show Website
    Slow Read: The Stand

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