Talking Europe travels to Warsaw to meet the mayor of the city and former presidential candidate Rafal Trzaskowski, just as the political temperature rises ahead of high-stakes parliamentary elections scheduled for next year. Trzaskowski argues that a long-standing consensus in Polish politics – being pro-European and pro-Ukraine – has been broken, as populist forces try to outdo each other in an effort to attract voters. Trzaskowski is an ally of Prime Minister Donald Tusk and was Civic Coalition's candidate in the June 2025 presidential election. He was elected mayor of Warsaw in October 2018. Trzaskowski rounds on the conservative president of Poland, Karol Nawrocki, for opposing the EU Commission's flagship SAFE programme aimed at boosting European defence. Trzaskowski says SAFE "is the best programme to strengthen our defence industry", and calls the president's veto "incredible", noting that "for years we had an agreement between us and all the other political forces when it came to strengthening Polish defence and security, helping Ukraine, and so on and so forth. That has been completely dismantled by President Nawrocki." For Trzaskowski, "it seems that the president is much more interested in making the life of the current government more difficult, and in jostling for power with other populist parties, than in promoting the Polish national interest." Our guest places the president's decision on SAFE in the context of next year's parliamentary elections, with an eye to being "the most Eurosceptic in order to get the vote of the conservative electorate". "The populists have decided to turn anti-European," he added. For Trzaskowski, that same competition between forces on the right is the reason why populists are "playing the anti-Ukrainian card. And unfortunately, this has some resonance among the people, not in Warsaw, because in Warsaw and in the big cities, people resoundingly keep on supporting Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, but in some other places, yes, there are some people who are either tired with war or who unfortunately listen to the populists who are stoking up those anti-Ukrainian feelings". But we put it to Trzaskowski that it is the current pro-EU government, which he is allied with, that has ended some free medical services that had been available to Ukrainians in Poland – not the conservative opposition. "You know, we were the country which helped the Ukrainians the most", Trzaskowski responds. "And we had 400,000 refugees staying in Warsaw alone, staying in our houses. And we've granted them almost citizen-like treatment here when it comes to education and healthcare. But, after four years, the European Union as a whole has decided to limit some of those services, especially when it comes to long-term treatment of cancer and so forth." Poland has long been seen as a very pro-Atlanticist country, but recent opinion polls suggest that Poles do not view Donald Trump nearly as favourably as they viewed other US presidents. Is that a reason for Poland to get on board with French President Emmanuel Macron's plans for European defence, and particularly with the possible extension of France's nuclear umbrella to other EU member states? "Our position is that NATO is the the cornerstone of our security", Trzaskowski replies. "Of course, we should have the best possible relations with the Americans and try to do everything to make sure that they stay in Europe. But at the same time, we should do absolutely everything to invest in our defence and in European capabilities. And, by the way, that's exactly what Trump told us – that we should take it more seriously and take more responsibility. So yes, we should strengthen NATO guarantees but we should also consider the plans of President Macron and analyse them very seriously because, quite simply, you are going to be more secure in this part of Europe when you have strong transatlantic capabilities and strong Polish and European capabilities." Programme prepared by Charlotte Prudhomme, Luke Brown, Paul Guianvarc'h and Perrine Desplats
