The Resilient Recruiter

Recruitment Coach Mark Whitby
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Join "the Recruitment Coach" Mark Whitby as he and his guests unpack the secrets of what it takes to be a profitable and long-lived professional in the recruitment industry.

  1. 6D AGO

    Why AI Has Made Recruitment Harder, Not Easier, with Greg Savage

    Six years ago, Greg Savage was the very first guest on The Resilient Recruiter. For episode 300, he returns to discuss the biggest shift our industry has faced since the rise of the internet: artificial intelligence. And he doesn’t hold back. “The contingent, multi-listed perm market… I think that is over.” Greg has built four recruitment businesses. He’s the author of The Savage Truth (20,000+ copies sold). He’s spent five decades watching this industry evolve. His view? AI hasn’t made recruitment easier. In many ways, it’s made it harder. Two years ago, Greg outlined a series of predictions about how AI would reshape recruitment. In this episode, we revisit those predictions and assess what’s proving true — and where the pace of change has accelerated. But this isn’t a doom-and-gloom conversation. It’s about where recruitment agencies win next. If you lead a recruitment agency or executive search firm, this episode will challenge how you think about AI, positioning, and long-term relevance. Episode Highlights 00:33 The biggest threat and opportunity Greg has seen in decades 02:14 Why the contingent, multi-listed perm model is under pressure 06:34 AI shortlisting chaos and the 14% overlap test 08:32 What “automating dysfunction” really means 26:20 The highest ROI AI opportunity right now 30:43 Four questions to ask before buying any AI tool 54:04 The rise of the “techno-empath” recruiter What You’ll Learn Why AI Is Making Recruitment Harder Why AI screening tools produced only 14% overlap in shortlists Research suggesting around 40% of tech candidates have inflated their resumes What “automating dysfunction” looks like in practice The four questions every recruitment leader should ask before investing in AI Which Recruitment Models Will Survive Why the contingent, multi-listed perm model is under pressure Why retained search and executive search are positioned to grow The business models most likely to thrive over the next five years Why recruiters must sell decision-making, not just placements What Recruiters Must Master Next The highest ROI AI opportunity: activating and cleaning your recruitment database Why “techno-empath” recruiters will win The moments of truth that must never be automated The skills that will define high-performing recruiters in an AI-driven market This episode speaks directly to recruitment agency growth, retained versus contingent recruitment, and how to scale a recruitment business as AI reshapes hiring. Why Episode 300 Matters When I launched this podcast in 2019, Greg was my first guest. Since then, we’ve lived through a pandemic, a hiring boom, a market correction, and now the fastest wave of AI adoption our industry has ever seen. Bringing him back for episode 300 felt right. This conversation is less about tools and more about leadership, positioning, and how to build a recruitment business that stays relevant. Sponsor This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow. Recruiterflow is an end-to-end, AI-first ecosystem built to run and scale your recruitment business. It combines ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one platform, helping recruitment agencies improve visibility, accountability, and performance. Book a demo at: https://recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen. Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Connect with Mark on LinkedIn. If you’re a recruitment agency owner serious about scaling, retained search, and staying ahead of AI in recruitment, subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter so you don’t miss future conversations like this. If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without getting left behind, this episode is essential listening.

    1h 4m

  2. FEB 11

    How to Win Retained Recruitment Work Without Pitching Harder, with James O'Brien

    Why do some recruiters win retained work in a single meeting while others pitch for weeks and still lose to contingent competitors? My guest, James O’Brien, knows exactly why. And it has nothing to do with fee structure. James is the Managing Director and COO at i-intro. He’s been in recruitment since the late 1980s and has spent the last decade helping recruitment firms move from transactional, contingent work into retained and exclusive assignments. His clients consistently outperform the market, with 96% one-year retention and 93% of placements still in role after two years. In this episode, James delivers a practical masterclass on consultative selling. He explains why most recruiters lose retained work before they even walk into the meeting, how to reframe hiring conversations around risk and retention, and what it really means to position yourself as a management consultant who specializes in talent acquisition. This conversation is for recruiters who are tired of pitching, discounting, and competing with five other agencies for the same role. You’ll hear the exact questions James uses to expose hidden hiring failure, why “wow” should be the standard for every client meeting, and how preparation, not persuasion, is what wins retained work consistently. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why recruitment isn’t the real problem and retention is The three questions that reframe hiring failure for clients How to measure retention and use it to justify higher fees Why most recruiters lose retained work in the preparation, not the pitch How to show value instead of just describing your process What accountability really looks like beyond the placement Why retained fees feel fair when clients understand the true cost of hiring failure Episode Highlights: [03:56] Why transactional recruitment is dying [10:13] Recruitment’s not the problem. Retention is [13:34] How to measure retention and monetize better outcomes [18:00] The three questions that reveal a 20–30% hiring failure rate [32:23] Why “wow” should be your minimum standard in client meetings [36:35] The preparation process that wins retained work [45:00] Why proposals still matter and when to send them [59:03] Accountability beyond the placement and why 12-month guarantees work Sponsor This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow — an end-to-end, AI-first recruitment platform designed to help recruiters run and scale their business more effectively. Recruiterflow combines ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one streamlined system. Many top recruiting leaders and members of our coaching community rely on Recruiterflow to stay organised, consistent, and competitive. You can learn more or request a demo at https://recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow. Guest Bio James O’Brien is the Managing Director and COO at i-intro. Since the late 1980s, he has worked across every part of the recruitment industry and now helps recruitment firms transition from contingent to retained and exclusive search. His work focuses on retention, accountability, and elevating recruiters from job fillers to trusted talent advisors. Connect with James: LinkedIn: James O’Brien Website: i-intro Connect with Mark Whitby Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session

    1h 6m

  3. FEB 5

    Why Candidates Ignore Recruiters and What Actually Makes Them Respond, with Theresa Nordstrom

    Why do some recruiters get ignored while others hear, “I never respond to recruiters, but I had to respond to you”? Theresa Nordstrom has spent her career on both sides of the hiring table. Before launching her own search firm, she spent nearly 20 years as an HR leader. In one role, she cut agency spending by over $700,000 by building creative employee referral programs and filling roles in-house. Then she crossed to the agency side. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Theresa explains why most recruiter outreach fails and what actually gets candidates to respond. Her answer isn’t more messages or better templates. It’s storytelling, relevance, and clarity. Theresa shares why job descriptions don’t recruit talent, how she uncovers the real story behind a role, and how video helps her cut through candidate noise without being pushy or salesy. She also breaks down why detailed submittals matter, how she uses AI to save time without sacrificing quality, and when it genuinely makes sense for companies to use external recruiters. Sponsor: Recruiterflow This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow. Recruiterflow is an end-to-end, AI-first ATS and CRM built specifically for recruitment agencies and executive search firms. It brings together ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one clean, intuitive platform. Several recruitment leaders in our coaching community use Recruiterflow to execute faster, onboard new hires more easily, and spend more time on what actually matters: conversations with clients and candidates. You can learn more or request a demo at recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow In this episode, you’ll learn: Why candidates respond to stories, not job descriptions How to get candidates to self-select early (and save time on both sides) Why progression examples outperform vague culture claims How video outreach cuts through noise without needing polish What most employee referral programs get wrong Why detailed submittals increase interview ratios How to use AI to elevate quality, not replace judgment Episode highlights: [3:01] Why Theresa left a 20-year HR career to start her own search firm [6:41] The Harley Davidson referral program that saved hundreds of thousands in agency fees [9:22] How to elicit the story behind a role candidates actually care about [12:32] Why proof of progression beats generic culture messaging [23:21] How to partner with HR without getting blocked [44:20] The video outreach approach that makes candidates stop and respond [55:03] Why Theresa spends so much time on submittals [58:34] Mixing retained, exclusive, and selective contingent work strategically Guest bio Theresa Nordstrom is the founder of Talent Company, an executive search firm specializing in accounting, finance, HR, and C-suite roles. Before launching her firm in 2015, Theresa spent nearly 20 years as an HR leader, where she became known for creative employee referral programs that dramatically reduced agency spend. Her approach today centres on storytelling, multi-channel video outreach, and presenting candidates in ways that make interview decisions easy. If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen.

    59 min

  4. FEB 2

    How to Build 8 Revenue Streams That Grow Your Agency in Any Market, with Gerard Koolen

    Why do some recruitment agencies collapse during recessions while others keep growing? Gerard Koolen has watched his business expand through three major crises: the 2008 financial collapse, COVID-19, and the war in Ukraine. Each time, Lugera grew. Not by working harder, but by building the business differently. Gerard is the founder of Lugera, a recruitment agency with 11 offices, over 500 employees, and €243 million in annual revenue. Operating across a region tested by economic downturns and geopolitical instability, his firm has been forced to adapt repeatedly. Instead of relying on a single revenue stream, Gerard built what he calls an “all-seasons service portfolio.” Over time, Lugera developed eight distinct revenue streams. When permanent hiring slowed, outplacement surged. When clients froze recruitment, other services stepped in. One stream compensated for another, keeping the business resilient when markets turned. That approach created a new problem. Managing eight revenue streams manually nearly broke the company. Gerard invested 10 years and €2.2 million in building technology to automate work that once required a team of 30 people. Today, one part-time employee handles what used to take an entire department. In this episode, Gerard breaks down how the model works. He explains how to monetise the 99% of candidates most agencies never place, why traditional ATS systems quietly limit growth, and how outplacement can become a counter-cyclical revenue stream. If you want to build a recruitment business that grows through uncertainty instead of being crushed by it, this conversation will change how you think about revenue, technology, and resilience. What you’ll learn: Why Lugera grew 20% during the 2008 recession What an “all-seasons service portfolio” looks like in practice Why most agencies monetise only 0.2% of their candidate database How eight revenue streams reduce risk and smooth volatility Why your ATS may be capping your growth without you realising How automation replaced 30 staff with one part-time role Why does outplacement generate revenue when hiring stops Episode highlights: [03:30] Growing during the 2008 recession [05:53] The all-seasons service portfolio [08:01] Monetising the 99% of candidates you never place [14:34] The real cost of building the technology [19:42] Why most ATS platforms restrict growth [27:02] Doubling placements without doubling effort [31:33] Turning outplacement into a €1M revenue stream [45:25] Automated outreach that converts job ads into leads Sponsor This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow. Recruiterflow is an AI-first ATS and CRM built to help recruitment businesses run and scale more efficiently. It combines ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one platform. Many leaders in our coaching community rely on Recruiterflow to streamline operations and improve execution. Learn more or request a demo at recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow Guest Bio Gerard Koolen is the founder of Lugera, a recruitment and staffing agency with 11 offices across Eastern Europe, over 500 employees, and €243 million in annual revenue. After investing 10 years and €2.2 million developing proprietary AI matching technology, Gerard created the Recruitment Revenue Platform to help recruitment agencies build multiple revenue streams beyond traditional placement fees. This is Gerard’s third appearance on The Resilient Recruiter. Connect with Gerard LinkedIn: Gerard Koolen Website: lugera.com Recruitment Revenue Platform: recruitmentrevenueplatform.com Special offer: Get 100 free credits plus personal onboarding at recruitmentcoach.com/staa Connect with Mark Free strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: Mark Whitby Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    58 min

  5. JAN 28

    From 3 Placements to 40% Retained: How to Win Without Competing, with James Cairns

    Why do some recruiters stay stuck on contingent work while others shift a large portion of their business to retained without pitching harder or sounding salesy? James Cairns found the answer the hard way. James is a CPA who left a stable corporate finance career to start a boutique search firm with no agency experience, no local network, and just $30,000 in savings. His first year was brutal. Three placements. Borrowed money. Serious doubts about whether he'd made a huge mistake. Then one summer night, sitting on his back porch, James made a decision that changed everything. He eliminated Plan B. From that point on, momentum followed. Today, James runs The CSP Group, a highly respected finance and accounting search firm in St. Louis. He regularly beats national firms, fills senior roles up to CFO level, and now operates with roughly 40% of his work on retained or contained terms. In this episode, James breaks down what actually drove that shift. Not better sales tactics, scripts, or pressure. But commitment, process, and the confidence to walk away from the wrong work. This conversation offers a clear look at what changes when a recruiter stops competing on volume and starts choosing the right work. In this episode, you'll learn: Why eliminating "Plan B" unlocked consistent momentum How James moved from 3 placements to 40% retained work The candidate profiling system that generates a third of his placements Why being local and specialized beats national firms How to position retained search without pitching or pressure Why walkaway power matters more than persuasion Episode highlights: [3:44] Why a CPA with zero agency experience started a search firm [6:31] Quitting with $30K, a pregnant wife, and no local network [8:46] First-year reality: three placements and borrowed money [10:04] The back porch moment that eliminated Plan B [18:41] The candidate process that transformed responsiveness [21:51] Talent profiles and how they drive a third of placements [38:02] Why local specialization beats national firms [43:27] The CFO placement that changed everything [50:04] "This is how we work": James's retained positioning [59:06] Why walkaway power leads to more retained work James's story is proof that retained success isn't about being louder or more persuasive. It's about clarity, commitment, and choosing the right work. Guest Bio: James Cairns is the founder of The CSP Group, a boutique executive search firm specializing in finance and accounting talent in the St. Louis market. James earned his CPA license and began his career at PwC in Big Four audit before moving into corporate finance roles. He started The CSP Group in 2014 with $30,000 in savings, a one-year-old at home, another child on the way, and no local business network. After a difficult first year, James committed fully to making the business work - a decision that changed everything. Today, the CSP Group places senior-level finance professionals up to the CFO level, with approximately 40% of search assignments on retained or contained terms. Connect with James: James on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-cairns-062a5b7/ The CSP Group website - https://thecspgroup.com/ Connect with Mark: Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session Mark on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/?originalSubdomain=uk Follow on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow. Recruiterflow is an AI-first ATS and CRM built to help recruitment businesses run and scale more efficiently. With built-in sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents, it’s trusted by many leaders in our coaching community. Learn more or request a demo at https://recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow

    1h 4m

  6. JAN 22

    How to Turn LinkedIn Videos Into Real Client Meetings, with Mike Mello

    Why do some recruiters post content every week and still struggle to book meetings? While others quietly turn short LinkedIn videos into real sales conversations that actually close. Mike Mello has lived both sides of that question. After 10 years in staffing, Mike had built what most recruiters would call a dream run. Over 1,300 placements. More than $100 million in revenue sold. Nearly 140 contractors are billed as enterprise salespeople. Then he walked away. Not because staffing stopped working. But because buyer behaviour had changed, and most recruiters were still relying on volume instead of context. In this episode, Mike shares how he used LinkedIn video alongside outbound automation to warm up prospects before sales conversations ever happened. The insight that changed everything was simple but powerful: senior decision-makers were watching his videos quietly, building familiarity and trust long before replying to an email or taking a call. Today, Mike is the founder of Simple Side AI, where he helps staffing agencies combine content and outbound in a way that creates better conversations, shorter sales cycles, and higher-quality meetings. This conversation goes well beyond tools. It’s about how buyers actually decide, why pain-point content consistently beats ROI messaging, and why most meaningful meetings don’t happen on email one or two. If you’re posting content but not seeing it turn into a pipeline, this episode will help you know what’s missing. In this episode, you’ll learn: • Why visibility now matters more than outbound volume • How LinkedIn video builds context before the first conversation • Why senior buyers watch content without ever liking or commenting • The difference between pain-point content and ROI content • Why unscripted video outperforms polished AI content • How long do outbound sequences really need to run in staffing • Why Mike’s best meetings happen around email six or seven • Why sales skill still matters more than any tool or platform Episode highlights [05:40] How Mike made 1,300 placements and sold $100M before launching Simple Side AI [09:05] The LinkedIn video that changed everything and grew one account to 50 contractors [10:36] Why fear of judgement stops recruiters from posting video [12:04] The analytics that proved LinkedIn video beats cold calling [13:56] Why your best clients watch your content but never engage publicly [19:02] Why content and outbound must work together [23:11] Pain-point content vs ROI content [26:42] Why imperfect video builds more trust [43:53] The observation–problem–solution–CTA email structure [52:19] Turning video viewers into warm sales calls [56:01] Why reactivating past accounts often beats cold outreach Guest Bio Mike Mello is the founder of Simple Side AI, helping staffing agencies turn LinkedIn content and outbound automation into real sales conversations. Before launching Simple Side AI in 2024, Mike spent 10 years in staffing sales, making over 1,300 placements and selling more than $100 million in revenue. As an enterprise salesperson, he built and managed a book of nearly 140 contractors and ranked as the number two salesperson at his company following the acquisition. Mike is based in New York City. Connect Mike Mello LinkedIn: Mike Mello - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-mello-7884b059/ Website: Simple Side AI - https://simplesideai.com/ Mark Whitby Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mwhitby Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    1h 4m

  7. JAN 14

    How to Build a Hiring Machine That Attracts the Right People on Repeat, with Andrea Hoffer

    Why do some recruiters command premium fees while others compete on speed and price? It’s not talent or experience. It’s whether they’ve packaged their service as a product. Andrea Hoffer learned this lesson the hard way. Before launching her consulting business, Andrea spent 10 years running a Massage Envy Spa franchise. She led a team of more than 30 employees. Her therapeutic staff stayed. Her front-desk hires didn’t. Turnover was constant. She hired fast, hoped for the best, watched people struggle in a sales-driven role, then repeated the cycle. Eventually, she stopped and asked herself a simple question: “I’ve been trained better than this.” That question changed everything. Andrea rebuilt her hiring approach from scratch and turned it into a branded, repeatable system she now calls the Dream Hire framework. It worked so well that other franchise owners began asking for help. Today, Andrea runs AHA Talent Consulting, where she helps business owners build “hiring machines” that consistently attract the right people. She charges $10,000+ for setup and $3,000+ monthly subscriptions. No placement fees. She’s not selling placements. She’s selling a system. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, we break down how to package your recruitment process as a signature solution, why story-based discovery beats traditional intake calls, and where AI genuinely adds leverage without replacing human judgment. In This Episode, You’ll Learn: Why packaging your process matters more than speed or experience How the Dream Hire framework works and why Define is the most skipped (and costly) stage Why asking for stories reveals more than job descriptions ever will How to assess culture fit without relying on gut feel Where AI creates real value in hiring and where it doesn’t How to use technology to scale insight without losing trust Episode Highlights [4:10] The hiring nightmare that forced Andrea to rebuild her entire process [7:38] Why changing the job posting language repelled the wrong candidates [9:31] The 90-minute group interview where candidates self-select out [12:24] Breaking down the Dream Hire framework: Define, Reach, Engage, Assess, Motivate [13:23] Why most recruiters skip defining and pay for it later [30:20] Assessing culture fit by asking for stories, not descriptions [36:08] The CAR technique for behavioral interviewing [39:58] Where AI creates the most value in hiring [41:02] Using AI chatbots to screen minimum qualifications [52:20] How Andrea uses AI to extend reach without extending hours Guest Bio Andrea Hoffer is the founder of AHA Talent Consulting and creator of the Dream Hire framework. She helps business owners attract, hire, and retain the right people through structured hiring systems and disciplined use of AI. Before consulting, Andrea spent 10 years as the owner and operator of a Massage Envy Spa franchise, where she led a 30+ person team and experienced firsthand the cost of hiring without structure. Today, she works primarily with multi-unit franchisees and small business owners who want predictable hiring outcomes without constant churn. If you’re ready to stop competing on speed and price and start owning your process, your positioning, and your outcomes, this episode is a must-listen.

    1h 5m

  8. JAN 8

    How Recruiters Can Use AI Without Losing Trust or Control with Rebecca Hastings

    There’s a lot of noise around AI in recruitment. Some people are selling it as a silver bullet. Others are predicting a job apocalypse for recruiters. Neither is true. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Mark Whitby sits down with Rebecca Hastings to talk about what’s actually happening inside businesses using AI right now and what recruiters are getting wrong. Rebecca advises CEOs, boards, and AI leaders on strategy, governance, and implementation. She’s reviewed hundreds of real-world AI transformation case studies and brings a grounded perspective most recruiters never see. Alongside that, she’s built a retained-only executive search firm focused on senior AI leadership and a sales system that consistently books high-quality meetings without volume-driven hustle. This conversation isn’t about tools or tactics. It’s about judgment, trust, and process. You’ll hear why AI doesn’t make work faster unless human capability is already in place, how weak sales systems are exposed when automation is added, and why recruiters who can explain how they use AI will earn more trust, not less. Rebecca also breaks down how she thinks about sales as a system, from market focus and listening time to multichannel outreach and AI-supported preparation. The result is fewer calls, better conversations, and more consistent meetings. If you want to understand where AI genuinely helps recruiters and where it quietly causes damage, this episode will change how you think about it. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why there won’t be a job apocalypse for recruiters How AI shifts bottlenecks instead of removing them Why trust and psychological safety matter in AI adoption How to build market expertise AI can amplify The sales system Rebecca uses to book more meetings with less effort Episode highlights: [3:42] How Rebecca billed £360,000 in her first year [14:08] Lessons from market downturns [32:17] Why listening time beats talk time [59:37] What actually happens when AI is introduced [1:15:26] The multichannel sales system behind consistent meetings Guest bio: Rebecca Hastings is the founder of Lucent Search, specialising in senior AI leadership appointments globally. She works with CEOs, CTOs, heads of AI, and boards on AI strategy, governance, and transformation, and is an AI and systems coach with Recruitment Coach.

    1h 31m
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About

Join "the Recruitment Coach" Mark Whitby as he and his guests unpack the secrets of what it takes to be a profitable and long-lived professional in the recruitment industry.

Information

  • Creator
    Recruitment Coach Mark Whitby
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    310
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © (c) Breakthrough Coaching Ltd T/A RecruitmentCoach.com. All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    The Resilient Recruiter

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