Join author Ryan Gutierrez as he sits down with Thomas Umstattd Jr., for an insightful conversation about storytelling, publishing trends, and literary traditions. In this episode, we explore: The fascinating parallels between Solomon Kane and modern heroic characters How biblical archetypes influence fantasy and western storytelling The historical foundations of King Arthur legends and their cultural impact Strategies for finding your target audience as an author The importance of moral clarity in storytelling Key takeaway: “Having the courage to say ‘I’m not for everyone, but I am for this group of people’ and making something they absolutely love—if you have that creative courage, commercial success is a lot easier to find.” Whether you’re a writer looking to improve your marketing strategy, a reader interested in literary traditions, or simply love great storytelling, this conversation offers something for everyone! Follow Ryan Gutierrez here. YouTube Version In this episode of The Big Draw, Ryan sits down with Thomas Umstattd Jr. of the Novel Marketing podcast for a sprawling, thoughtful conversation. They move from Robert E. Howard’s pulp heroes to King Arthur, from westerns to dystopias, from bedtime stories to box office strategy, and from Rome’s fall to Washington stepping down from power. What starts as a chat about Solomon Kane and a new Arthurian comic grows into a wide-ranging exploration of archetypes, morality, and what our heroes say about us. Key takeaways Archetypal characters like Conan, Solomon Kane, Arthur, and King David keep resurfacing because they tap into deep, shared ideas about courage, justice, and power. Westerns and dystopias are two ends of a moral spectrum about government: can power serve the good, or is it inherently corrupt? Moral clarity in fiction is not childish. It is often more resonant and rewatchable than endlessly “gray” characters and settings. The most commercially successful stories are rarely “for everyone.” They are aimed fiercely at a specific audience who then drag everyone else to them. King Arthur, Cincinnatus, Caesar, and Washington are not just history and legend. They function as founding myths that shape how whole nations imagine leadership. Returning to clear archetypes and old heroic patterns is not regression. It can be the most radical and needed move in a disoriented culture. The Longest-Running Book Marketer In Podcasting Meets The Big Draw Ryan: Everybody, it’s me again. It’s Ryan. This episode of The Big Draw is a special one for me. I have the wonderful Thomas Umstattd Jr. on the show. I wanted to make sure I said his last name right. I’m a big fan of this man’s channel. He runs what I believe is the longest-running novel marketing podcast in history, Novel Marketing. I listen to his stuff a lot while I work on my own literary projects, and I think he’s brilliant. He has a great head on his shoulders, and I’m glad to have him on. How are you doing, Thomas? Thomas: I’m doing well. Thank you for having me. Ryan: Absolutely. Do you want to address my audience with anything in particular? Maybe tell them more about yourself before we get into Solomon Kane, which I cannot wait to talk about? Thomas: Sure. I host three podcasts: Novel Marketing, which you mentioned. That one is about getting more readers for your book. The Christian Publishing Show, which is focused on craft and the publishing process. And a brand new YouTube show that is currently on the Novel Marketing YouTube channel called Author Update, which focuses on publishing news, marketing news, and also general news and how it applies to authors. Ryan: It’s excellent. It’s wonderful. We actually started getting into this topic before we hit record, and I stopped us because I wanted to save it for the show. You were talking about Solomon Kane, and I would love to know what your thoughts are about that, because you had kindly compared some of the work I do to Robert E. Howard’s Solomon Kane stories. Conan, Solomon Kane, And The Archetype Of The Hammer Of God Thomas: Yeah. So Conan is of course the more famous of the Robert E. Howard stories. Conan is a figure who stands against civilization. In a typical Conan story, civilization is evil and corrupt. The kings are corrupt. The wizards are corrupt. Conan is not a good man in a moral sense. But he has a code of honor. It’s his code of honor that insulates him from the corruption of the society around him while he is smashing bad guys and killing demons and saving damsels. When Robert E. Howard stopped writing Conan, he shifted mostly to this other character, Solomon Kane. Those stories take place, I think, in the 1600s. Kane is a Puritan. A warrior Puritan. Imagine a violent Presbyterian with a big black Puritan hat who goes around fighting zombies and killing evil. He is a very righteous man. One of the interesting things about the stories is that there is a lot of deus ex machina. He is not very pious in the conventional sense. You do not see him praying a lot. But you see him being seemingly very lucky. As you read, you realize, “Oh, wait. God is looking after him as he fights these monsters.” And Black Marrow, your character, seems very similar. He is fighting evil. He is rough around the edges. He is not advancing good so much as he is destroying evil, which is really fun for a protagonist. Ryan: I love that comparison. You asked if I had known about Solomon Kane. I feel like I bring him up once a month on my YouTube channel. I am like a grandpa who starts sundowning. I talk about Solomon Kane. I talk about my time as a boxing coach. I talk about five or six key things on a loop. Something that might shock you: anyone reading Black Marrow would think, “This guy clearly loves Robert E. Howard.” But I actually did not start reading Howard until about a year ago. Then I got really into it. I had written Black Marrow book one before I knew much about Solomon Kane, which is really funny. When I finally read the Kane stories I was like, “Wow. This is so my taste.” One point of confusion for me was the order of Howard’s characters. I had thought that Solomon Kane came first and Conan came after. Thomas: I could be wrong, but I believe Solomon Kane came second because he is not coming out of copyright anytime soon. Conan is. The first Conan stories will be exiting copyright in just a few years. That means anyone can write a Conan story. By the time a writer finishes a new Conan novel, some of those early stories will actually be in the public domain. Whereas I think Solomon Kane will take longer. Ryan: If I had to pick which of those two characters I would want to work on, it would be Solomon Kane without question. I think he is a far more interesting character personally. Thomas: Yeah. And he is an archetype. The fact that you found your way to this kind of character on your own before discovering him is very archetypal. These patterns show up independently in different minds. That is part of what archetypes do. Conan is also very much an archetype. And Arthur is an archetype. I have some thoughts on Arthur and your King Arthur book, if you want to talk about that. We can keep going on Kane too, but I have a lot of Arthur thoughts. Ryan: Anything you want to talk about. I keep the format of the show pretty loose. You guide the conversation. I am here to enjoy your company. King Arthur, King David, And The Westernization Of The Old Testament Thomas: The Arthur stories are very archetypal and they are very much inspired by the biblical story of King David and his mighty men. You have: Samuel, the wizard with the staff and robe, doing what we would call “magic,” giving counsel to the king. King David fighting giants. Arthur fighting giants. David coming from humble backgrounds. Arthur coming from humble backgrounds. David’s mighty men doing great feats of strength and valor. David being betrayed. Arthur being betrayed. The stories rhyme. And if you look at the story of David and where it fits in the Old Testament, you see something else fascinating. The Old Testament follows a single people group through basically every epoch of civilization: You start with a man who has a kid. Then a family. Then they grow into a tribe. That tribe goes through an awkward adolescence. It becomes a kingdom. Then a great kingdom. Then the great kingdom corrupts and declines. Then it collapses. Then the people are reborn with something new. To tell that whole story, you need about 1500 years. You see all these different “ages” in the life of one people. There are seasons where the story feels very much like a western. David is very much a sheriff in the Wild West, trying to bring civilization, fighting off the Philistines. That is very much like Arthur fighting the Saxons. He is trying to establish a government and use government as a force for good. All you really need is a tumbleweed blowing between David and Goliath. It is the same kind of showdown. Then there are other seasons that feel like dystopian stories, where the government itself is evil and corrupt, and the protagonist is a seemingly powerless outsider who has to stand up against it. You see that with Elijah facing King Ahab and Queen Jezebel. I feel like you can place most stories on this continuum: On one end, a pure western: the sheriff uses law and force to build civilization. On the other, a pure dystopia: the government is irredeemable and the hero must resist it. The big question along that spectrum is: Is the government good a