WORK IN PROGRESS

Wes Botman, Ian Piepenbrock
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WORK IN PROGRESS is a raw, unfiltered look at the grind of building and scaling in tech and services. Hosted by founders Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, it’s for those in the trenches—still learning, still failing, still pushing. Each episode dives into the reality of running a business: the wins, the losses, and the lessons earned through hard work and constant experimentation. If you’re scaling, building, or just obsessed with the process, WORK IN PROGRESS delivers insights from founders in it, day in and day out.

  1. JAN 21

    Dot-Com Crash, the $63M Exit and Conquering Enterprise IoT (Eric Simone, ClearBlade CEO) - Episode 24

    Silicon Valley runs on stories. Reality runs on systems. Eric Simone has lived through multiple tech eras, from mainframes to the dot-com crash to modern IoT hype, and built ClearBlade while others chased narratives that collapsed under real-world scale. This episode is about what actually breaks companies: bad timing, fragile platforms, and founders who confuse momentum with durability. Strip away the mythology and what’s left is execution, patience, and uncomfortable tradeoffs. Chapters (0:00) Eric Simone’s background and perspective (4:30) Early Silicon Valley before startups were cool (13:40) IBM, mainframes, and learning the hard way (27:50) Bootstrapping Compete and surviving the dot-com bubble (40:10) Bad timing, good ideas, and why Webvan failed (54:00) Selling a company does not mean you are set for life (1:10:30) The painful birth of ClearBlade (1:23:00) Why IoT platforms keep failing at scale (1:32:40) Google IoT shutdown and ClearBlade’s breakout moment (1:39:00) Industrial IoT, edge computing, and real use cases (1:44:00) Fear, naivety, and why action beats certainty Our Guest Eric Simone Founder & CEO at ClearBlade Website: https://clearblade.com The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at Eli5 (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at Noco (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Youtube Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: https://x.com/wesbotman Ian: https://x.com/lamswolprins

    1h 45m

  2. 2025-11-05

    From Sugar to Systems: Productized Focus for Founders - Episode 23

    Founders don’t burn out from work alone. They burn out from running on stress, guesswork, and broken systems. Ian and Wes start with the Ray Peat diet, then pivot into the operating systems that keep startups sane: Brand Sprint, ICP-first messaging, and the tradeoffs between Framer and Webflow when you need to ship fast and stay scalable. Highlights: Ray Peat playbook: sugar, sleep, and founder energy management Why adrenaline-driven grind kills judgment Brand Sprint as the shortcut to clarity Framer vs Webflow for early-stage speed vs long-term scale Validation and prototyping before building Productized focus and founder discipline Chapters: (0:00) The Ray Peat diet, sugar, and founder energy(4:10) Stress vs sugar: energy for creative work(9:15) What carnivore gets wrong about energy balance(12:20) Resetting the Noco and 20 MINUTES workflow(15:30) Productization and the pain of scaling(17:20) The ELI5 stealth SaaS project(21:40) The Brand Sprint: clarity through speed(25:40) Why ICP definition fixes bad marketing(28:20) Framer vs Webflow: how to decide(33:30) Validation and prototyping before building(40:05) Founder energy, pace, and systems(46:20) Life balance, focus, and living outside the city(49:50) Closing thoughts: productized freedom The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRM... Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    51 min

  3. 2025-07-24

    Building a Media-First SaaS Agency, Why We Love Texas and WTF is Waifu? ep. 22

    After a deal-closing trip to Dallas and Austin, Ian and Wes dive into cultural differences between the US and Europe, the boldness of American founders, and why Austin might be the ultimate tech base for their next wave of growth. They also reveal Noco’s new Webflow Enterprise Partner status, unpack the playbook to build a $10M ARR AI agent business, and debate whether media should become the business itself. Chapters: (0:00) - Intro & why we vanished(2:00) - Texas trip recap: Dallas, Austin, Shake Shack & ClearBlade(5:00) - US vs Europe mindset: opportunity vs risk(10:30) - Coffee, roadside diners, and cultural details(13:50) - Austin impressions & Waymo weirdness(19:00) - Comedy clubs, nightlife, and 6th Street observations(24:00) - Why Austin might be our new business base(29:00) - Noco’s local targeting strategy explained(34:00) - Eli5’s bottlenecks and growth constraints(38:30) - The content pivot & lead magnet strategy(42:00) - Greg Isenberg’s playbook breakdown(48:00) - Putting media before services: the hard shift(53:00) - Why personal brand still matters (but has limits)(58:00) - The Every.to model and what we’re building(1:04:00) - Noco updates: Webflow Enterprise Partner status(1:08:00) - CRO dashboard and automation at Noco(1:14:00) - GROK, AI companions & MechaHitler mode(1:22:00) - Final thoughts: summer planning & European maximalism The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRM... Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1h 31m
  4. From Amsterdam to Austin: SaaS Growth, CRO and Sales Funnels - Episode 21

    2025-05-19

    From Amsterdam to Austin: SaaS Growth, CRO and Sales Funnels - Episode 21

    From Amsterdam to Austin. From Bitterbal to Brisket. From Seed-stage to Unicorn.In this episode, Ian and Wes dive into what it really takes to scale a modern SaaS agency. They explore why “boring” businesses are winning, how Noco is evolving with CRO subscriptions and funnel services, and why in-person still matters—even in a remote-first world. Plus, an inside look at Eli5’s new AI tools and their upcoming Texas trip.Timestamps (0:00) Why “boring” businesses might be smarter than SaaS (5:27) What’s actually boring: screen work vs. building stuff (9:35) How Noco’s subscriptions are built for compounding value (14:42) Adding CRO & funnel services: what’s working, what’s next (22:36) Eli5’s internal lab: AI tools for private equity & beyond (30:12) Building a public index of top product studios (33:07) Why we're going to Austin (and why it matters) (38:45) In-person still beats remote—if you want long-term trust (40:25) Wrapping up: pendulums, parenthood, and the next episodeThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    41 min
  5. How GDPR Crushed European Startups, Pre-Elon Twitter Stories and The Future of xAI and X ads - ep 20

    2025-04-17

    How GDPR Crushed European Startups, Pre-Elon Twitter Stories and The Future of xAI and X ads - ep 20

    What happens when everything is going well, but you still feel off? In this episode, Ian and Wes open with an unfiltered conversation about burnout, energy swings, and the strange self-sabotage that kicks in when business finally gets calm. That spirals into a full teardown of GDPR, where they walk through the real-world consequences of the EU's regulatory overreach and why it did irreversible damage to Europe’s tech scene. They break down exactly how GDPR slowed down product launches, blocked marketing experiments, and forced startups to spend thousands on compliance infrastructure. It's not a theoretical rant. It’s firsthand experience from founders who’ve lived through it. Later, they shift gears to talk about X Ads, Grok, and what it will take for AI to finally make media buying efficient. Ian shares insights from a meeting with X’s official audience data partner and why Grok-powered ad targeting could be the next cheat code for performance marketing—if they ever get it right. One part philosophy, one part EU critique, one part startup therapy session. Topics Covered - The psychological tension of being calm during growth - Why founders self-sabotage when things go too smoothly - Naval Ravikant, mimetic desire, and shallow decision-making - How GDPR destroyed startup agility in the EU - Specific compliance tasks that crushed marketing teams - Why “easing” GDPR won’t fix anything - X Ads and why Grok hasn’t delivered yet - What a Grok-powered media engine could unlock - Why most ad workflows are still too slow and bloated - Founders need faster iteration cycles in 2025 Chapters (0:00) Wes for Government, Opening Banter (2:21) Burnout During Calm, When Things Go Too Well (7:06) Do You Still Like What You're Doing (13:01) Naval, Mimetic Drift, and Life Choices (19:03) Why Wes Launched a Holdco (22:57) Praise for Bureaucracy (Not Really) (24:02) GDPR Breakdown, What Really Happened in 2018 (38:03) Compliance Hell, What Marketing Teams Actually Faced (43:02) X Ads, Grok, and the AI Targeting Dream (48:04) Founders vs Agencies, Speed vs Bureaucracy (54:02) Engagement Bait and the Broken X Algorithm (58:01) Still Value on X, but Time for a Fix The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day. Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding. Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2 Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality: Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman) Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1 hr
  6. From Pyramids to Burning Teslas: Conspiracies, Business Breakthroughs and Land Cruisers - Episode 19

    2025-03-30

    From Pyramids to Burning Teslas: Conspiracies, Business Breakthroughs and Land Cruisers - Episode 19

    Ian and Wes take you on a wild ride through Episode 19, unpacking pyramid power plant theories with nods to Graham Hancock, debating Bob Lazar’s alien whistleblowing saga, and wrestling with Europe’s Tesla vandalism wave. The stakes get real as Wes wraps Eli5’s intense hiring sprint, seven new hires streamlined with lessons for the future, while Ian revels in Noco’s overflowing pipeline, plotting faster marketing experiments with X’s Grok-powered ads. From Edge Impulse’s Qualcomm coup to the rise of Chinese car tech, hello BYD suspension, they explore growth, innovation, and legacy. Then it’s personal. Wes pitches “reality transurfing” to ditch futile rants, Ian confesses his fear of failure, and a Toyota Land Cruiser dream ties it to family roots.Chapters(0:00) - Intro and Pyramid Theories(4:40) - Alternative Tech and Lost Knowledge(7:00) - Aliens and Bob Lazar’s Story(10:40) - Geo Scotty and Classic Beauty(12:49) - Eli5 Hiring Update(16:20) - Recruitment Lessons and Tools(21:40) - Onboarding New Hires at Eli5(26:48) - Noco’s Pipeline and Growth(32:40) - Noco’s Challenges and Experimentation(38:20) - X Ads and Marketing Speed(41:40) - Eli5’s Client Diversity and Focus(46:25) - Edge Impulse and Qualcomm Deal(51:00) - Serving Clients at Scale(55:00) - Decel Mindsets and Personal Traits(1:04:20) - Tesla Vandalism and Chinese Cars(1:18:20) - Toyota Land Cruiser DreamsThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1h 24m
  7. What 806 Applicants Taught Us About Hiring & Why We’re Scaling Differently - Episode 18

    2025-03-06

    What 806 Applicants Taught Us About Hiring & Why We’re Scaling Differently - Episode 18

    In this episode, we dive into everything from scaling a business without killing the fun to automating workflows and filtering out 806 applicants. Ian breaks down Noco’s rapidly growing sales pipeline and how their flexible subscription model is finally clicking with customers. Wes shares his philosophy on keeping Eli5 lean, solving client problems that spawn new business ideas, and the painful process of hiring top-tier talent.We also discuss the AI-powered creative workflow tool Flora, how to properly validate a business idea, and why Stripe subscriptions don’t work for high-ticket B2B SaaS. Oh, and we kick things off with JD Vance memes and a nostalgic Mad Men rewatch.Timestamps:(0:00) Intro & JD Vance Memes(1:06) Rewatching Mad Men & Coca-Cola Ad(2:41) Noco Pipeline Filling Up(4:10) Noco’s New Subscription Model Clicks(7:05) Scaling Up vs. Keeping it Fun(10:07) Eli5 as an Idea Engine(14:00) Relaunching Paradigm for Product Design as a Service(19:50) How to Validate a Business Idea(25:00) Wes’s Recruitment Grind(28:09) Noco Hiring a Banger Designer(30:07) Automation at Noco(32:30) The Challenges of Automating Billing(35:00) AI-Powered Creative Workflows (Flora)(38:12) Wrapping UpThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    39 min
  8. The rise of AI-powered developers, automation wars, and the JD Vance speech - Episode 17

    2025-02-19

    The rise of AI-powered developers, automation wars, and the JD Vance speech - Episode 17

    In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, we go deep on: The software developer job collapse – AI is eating junior developer roles. Is the middle-class engineer disappearing? AI-powered coding in Webflow and beyond – How Webflow Apps, GSAP, and AI-driven coding tools are changing the game. Make vs. Zapier and the automation gap – Why most businesses aren't even ready for AI workflows. Escaping Amsterdam – Why Ian is ditching city life, exploring Starlink internet, and avoiding overpriced restaurants. Europe’s economic mess and JD Vance’s speech – Is EU leadership completely disconnected from reality? CRO, efficiency, and scaling Noco – The latest on Noco’s CRO push, customer insights, and why simple beats complex. Chapters (0:00) Intro and chaotic energy (1:00) Hiring struggles and scaling challenges (4:20) The reality of running an agency vs. a product business (6:45) Software developer job market is down 70% – what’s happening? (10:30) AI is replacing junior devs, but senior devs are thriving (14:15) No-code, low-code, and AI automation in development (17:40) Automating workflows with Make and Zapier (21:00) The gap between efficient and inefficient businesses (25:30) The move to the countryside – Ian’s house project (30:00) Ditching restaurants and cooking at home (32:50) Hospitality industry complaints and cultural contrasts (34:45) Amsterdam bans dancing in restaurants? (36:10) JD Vance’s speech and European politics (40:30) The shift in political alignments on war and peace (43:15) Regulation, censorship, and the loss of common sense (47:00) Noco’s CRO service and standardization(49:30) Wrapping up – recruiter culture and closing thoughts The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    51 min
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About

WORK IN PROGRESS is a raw, unfiltered look at the grind of building and scaling in tech and services. Hosted by founders Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, it’s for those in the trenches—still learning, still failing, still pushing. Each episode dives into the reality of running a business: the wins, the losses, and the lessons earned through hard work and constant experimentation. If you’re scaling, building, or just obsessed with the process, WORK IN PROGRESS delivers insights from founders in it, day in and day out.

Information

  • Creator
    Wes Botman, Ian Piepenbrock
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    24
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Wes Botman, Ian Piepenbrock
  • Show Website
    WORK IN PROGRESS