Conversations about Meher Baba

Angela Lee Chen - Baba Zoom
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Different hosts, different topics, sometimes featured guests: but always about loving Meher Baba in the present tense. Conversations are held live on Baba Zoom at various times. If you want to join the conversation, visit babazoom.net for more information, login information is available under the ”Virtual Meetings” page.

  1. 2 DAYS AGO

    Late Night Chat with Jeff Wolverton: E&G: ”Bad to Good to Love,” Feb 3, 2026, live Baba Zoom

    Dear folks of Baba, In our early years with Baba, many of us were surprised that the mandali did not give “good” the prominent place in life that we did. Rather than being the ultimate quality we need to cultivate, it is something in the end we need to rise above, for most of us mistakenly conflated good with love, often with binding consequences. Good is a learned or cultivated behavior that becomes a part of our conditioning (our sanskaras), whereas love springs spontaneously from within, from the innermost dimension, the soul. Victor Hugo, the French novelist, said it very insightfully, “Virtue, as in the case of vice, is a calculated action, but love is not calculated. It wells up in the heart and expresses itself spontaneously.” In my early years with Baba, Eruch once said to me seemingly out of the blue, “Jeff, the accumulation of virtue is not the goal.” It can take years to discern the difference between good (or virtue) and love. Baba has said, “Feelings and emotions are the creation of mind and energy. Love is the creation of the soul.” Feelings and emotions (the heart) are great vehicles for love, but also for the ego! For this reason, you don’t want to give the heart a blank check! Because both good and love make their appearance in the heart, it is easy to equate the two. As I gathered from the mandali, it requires keen inner awareness to see that love expresses itself through the heart, whereas good comes from the heart. Love, because it comes from Baba, is “impression-less” as Darwin and Eruch used to say, and has its origin in the soul, from beyond the world of time and space. Although good is learned and originates in our conditioning (our sanskaras), this is not to say that good is bad! Baba has said that in general we go “from bad to good to God [Love].” Yet good, in its highest expression, is transactional; it still seeks to get something however infinitely subtle that might be. Love gives itself away spontaneously and is not seeking some hidden result for the self. Good has a limited fund of energy to draw from, and when overdone can lead to burnout. Love has an unlimited source of energy because it springs from the soul. The kind of love Baba is inviting us to explore and experience has a different, more exquisitely refined vibration. Eruch, in his seemingly casual remark, was actually hinting that the highest virtue or good that we are capable of is still within the realm of duality and is at best a reflection of the highest Love, not its source. This is similar to the moon, which is not the source of its own light. That is, the good or virtuous sanskaras in us, at their highest levels, only reflect Divine Love and its qualities, but they don’t have the spontaneous beauty of these qualities, and there is invariably the sense of the “I”. Good or virtue involves the effort of willpower, motive and deliberation, whereas love is effortlessly expressed, spacious and liberating. Baba once said to Bhau, “In a virtuous life, evil is suppressed and good surfaces; but the evil is still there. The bad sanskaras remain and have to be worked out, if not in this life, then in the next or the one after. In the spiritual life, both good and bad sanskaras express themselves, and both get nullified. A spiritual life leads one toward naturalness, whereas a virtuous life, in the guise of humility, inflates the ego and perpetuates it!” To discern the difference between the highest good or virtue in us on the one hand and the divine qualities of Love on the other is like distinguishing between crystal and pure diamond; we have to become expert jewelers. Over time, I feel Baba awakens this discernment in us when it is helpful to our spiritual unfoldment. The divine qualities (or divinely human qualities) are like the refracted rays of the Sun of Baba, and they originate directly from Him. The more we are drawn to the divine qualities (as well as to Baba’s immediate divine presence itself) and away from the good and virtuous sanskaras, the more our consciousness moves toward merging with the Divine, our Beloved Baba. As the mandali have said, at first this merging is fleeting, but eventually after many years, through longing and Baba’s grace, we will spend more and more time moving toward the Soul, toward Baba and Oneness, until, as one of His mandali, Dr. Harry Kenmore, once said, we become “His residence”, where He lives permanently. Eruch, in hearing this from the doctor, confirmed the supreme importance of our becoming His residence, a home for His Love. In His love, Jeff

    1h 14m

  2. 5 DAYS AGO

    Irwin Luck: Amartithi Message, Jan 31, 2026, live on Baba Zoom

    Dear Lovers of the Lord and anyone else who likes him. I am giving a talk about my experience of the first Amartithi when Meher Baba gave up his body in this advent of His. I was there to help cover his body. I will tell you about what happened and the intensely intoxicating atmosphere surrounding the area during my time there. Hosted by Diana Goodheart in NC This event was recorded live. To be first to be notified of a new video on this channel, please hit the red subscribe button, then the notifications bell. To join future live events, see www.babazoom.net. Please join our Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/meherbabafamily

    1h 25m

  3. 28 JAN

    Late Night Chat with Jeff Wolverton: E&G: ”Realization vs. Effacement,” Jan 26, 2026, live Baba Zoom

    Dear folks of Baba, “The way of My Work is the way of effacement, which is the way of strength, not of weakness and through it you become mature in My love." - Meher Baba In the coming chapter, Darwin Shaw writes about the path of self-effacement encouraged by Baba. It was a new concept for most of us, and the term is rarely used even in spiritual circles. Simply put, it involves vacating our interior, so to speak, and letting Baba move in. His mandali would use the phrase: “When He takes over.” This transformation does not occur instantly, but gradually over our lifetime as we surrender our interior to Him. In my view, Baba affirms two major spiritual approaches, that of self-realization and that of self-effacement. On the path of self-realization, we seek to realize our spiritual potential, going up through the planes of consciousness, gross, subtle and mental, to realize our own divinity. Many of the saints are on this path. On the path of self-effacement, which Baba guided most of His mandali and close ones on, is about vacating our interior and allowing Baba to live our life, with us as the witness. In the Bible are the words, “Not I, but Christ liveth in me.” Unlike the path of self-realization, self-effacement means giving up even our spiritual experiences, which can be so compelling. Rick Chapman, in his meeting with Baba at Meherazad in 1966, was told by Him, "In fact, pay no attention whatsoever to the spiritual path, the planes of consciousness, or to any spiritual experiences—they are all nothing but toys for children, because they are nothing but illusion.” In this approach, Baba is implying to even renounce our "spiritual experiences " in favor of self-effacement. Such spiritual experiences are still in the dual realm. In truth, Love is the higher self, which is ever-present in everything, in what is “unspiritual” as well as “spiritual.” It is a matter of realizing Love heart-to-heart with Baba and each other, not chasing after spiritual experiences. The one Love that surrounds us and is ever-present only needs to be cleansed of its impurities, and its sanskaric veils removed. In clarifying the two approaches, Baba gave the metaphor, as Irwin Luck shared with me, of two methods of taking down a large tree. Paraphrasing, in the first method, we go to the top of the tree and cut down, say, ten feet of the topmost branches, and then we come down another ten feet, and then another and another, until we reach the base of the tree. This is like going through the inner path of consciousness, plane by plane, until Divinity is reached. In the second method, continuing the metaphor, Baba introduces termites into the bark of the tree, and gradually the tree is hollowed out, so that to all intents and purposes the tree appears to be thriving at the gross level. We remain at the level of the world where we can express Baba’s personal love to those around us. Baba becomes the indweller, and we become vehicles of His love in the world, rather than regarding our self as the base of operations. The remembrance of Baba in any way, shape or form acts like an invasion of termites that eventually destroys the tree. As has been said, Baba affirms both paths. The path of self-effacement allows us to empathize with others in the gross world; we are spared the infinite vastness and complications of the overwhelming experiences of the higher planes. However, we are nevertheless exposed to the experiences of the ups and downs of life in the gross world. Baba has said, “I will teach you how to move in the world, yet be at all times in inward communion with me as the Infinite Being.” On the path of self-realization, the bliss of the higher planes makes it difficult for the advanced aspirant to truly empathize with others in the gross world; there is sympathy and the sharing of the higher expression of love, but empathizing with others as they experience themselves at the gross level is not really possible. Among the myriad methods leading toward self-effacement, adopting the provisional ego is essential, in which we imagine Baba as living our day and doing everything through us. What starts as a mental exercise eventually becomes our actual experience, the gradual transition from micro-managing our lives to letting Baba take over. And of course, focusing on Baba in all the ways that we can is paramount, making Him our constant companion, which over time, gradually effaces our ego in Him. “I believe that as spiritual aspirants our concentration should be on loving God and merging with Him, and the predominant process we are engaged in is not self-realization but complete self-effacement, which is both total annihilation and complete merging of the personality self into God.” - Darwin Shaw P.S. We are continuing on page 61

    1h 17m

  4. 22 JAN

    Late Night Chat with Jeff Wolverton: E&G: ”No Villain is Required,” Jan 19, 2026, live Baba Zoom

    We have some informal chat after every arti, the "post-arti party"! But once a week, Jeff Wolverton joins us for some serious mining of the spiritual depths. Join us for conversation, more readings, songs, quotes - you never know what treasures will be uncovered! The Topic: No Villain Is Required Dear folks of Baba, When I went off to college in 1962, although coming from a free-thinking, fun-loving and non-religious family, I nevertheless naively bought into the world as being the “reality" as it is described in the excellent article below. I think probably all of us did. This was before Baba entered my life in January, 1968. It was soon after that I found myself going to Darwin and Jeanne Shaw’s meetings in Schenectady, N.Y. Darwin would speak of the myriad ways of the world as a “mayavic trap”, and at the time I felt, although he radiated such a rarified love, that he was a bit too detached from the world—ha! He didn’t seem to see some of its valuable and creative possibilities—haha! My parents encouraged my siblings and me to strive to leave the world a better place. Now decades later, I find my orientation toward the world has changed 180 degrees. What I had struggled with for years and found most difficult to resolve is this: How do I express the love within me in this world without getting bound up in it? Ultimately, I have had to give up even "my own loving agenda" in regard to the world and actually liberate Baba’s Love in me from my agenda—who would have imagined that! I had to quietly step out of the game and let Baba and His Love do its own thing. Here are Baba’s magnificent words about our purpose in the world: To penetrate into the essence of all being and significance, and to release the fragrance of that inner attainment for the guidance and benefit of others, by expressing, in the world of forms, truth, love, purity and beauty—this is the sole game which has any intrinsic and absolute worth. All other happenings, incidents and attainments can, in themselves, have no lasting importance. To me, this has meant to not live in the world on its terms, but on Love’s terms—Baba’s Love has its own agenda. How is this done? This is taking me a lifetime to fathom. The article below describes succinctly how difficult it is to disentangle from the clutches of the world. It is not only colorfully written, but in my view, reveals a very profound insight into the subtlety of Maya, the principle of ignorance. It bears studying. I should say that it isn’t written knowingly from Baba’s point of view. In His love, Jeff A link to the PDF of Effort and Grace: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xrR75eksY-tErdKZm9aOBs3omuhioasb/view?usp=sharing To join the email list for Late Night Chats, contact Angela

    1h 10m

  5. 14 JAN

    Late Night Chat with Jeff Wolverton: E&G: ”Maintaining Inner Momentum,” Jan 12, 2026, live Baba Zoom

    Dear folks of Baba, Darwin Shaw’s book, Effort and Grace, is an in-depth inquiry into the inner life with Baba. It describes one of the major approaches to Baba by one who was devoted to Him for over 70 years, which culminated in a glorious intimacy with Him. Darwin was always so encouraging and optimistic in what we can do to open up to Baba’s immediate loving presence. He asserts that many of the blocks to this intimacy can be removed by our inner efforts and by inviting Baba’s ongoing intervention and grace. He would often stress the importance of tuning in to our inner momentum at various times throughout the day and inspire those thoughts and feelings in ourselves that keep Baba front and center in the moment. We were encouraged to ask ourselves: Is what I’m doing creating that inner aliveness that moves me to remember Baba and awaken His loving presence or am I drifting into an uninspired mood that is just filling up time and space? There are countless ways that we can enliven our lives that may not overtly seem like a remembrance of Baba, like spending hours out in the garden planting flowers or taking our grandchildren to play in the park—activities that are entertaining to Him. One of Eruch’s most often quoted words of Baba were: “To be natural is most godly.” Baba didn’t say to be spiritual or good is most godly. What Darwin warned us against is falling into a state of inner inertia where we find ourselves “just existing”; such states make more work for Baba in us. There are many things, both inner and outer, that we can do to keep our spirits up. Baba has said, “The aspirant who attempts to reach the goal carries with him all the sanskaras he has accumulated in the past. But in the intensity of his spiritual longing, they remain suspended and ineffective for the time being. Time and again, however, when there is a slackening of spiritual effort, the sanskaras hitherto suspended from action gather fresh strength and, arraying themselves in a new formation, constitute formidable obstacles in the spiritual advancement of the aspirant.” It requires great sensitivity to tune in to our inner current at the level of the heart: Is it flowing toward Baba and life in the world or is it stalled and even receding? Because, Darwin would say, once we get trapped in spiritual inertia, it has a way of sabotaging our efforts to draw closer to Baba. It puts off our efforts till tomorrow; it causes us to get too caught up in duties that drain our inner vitality, distracting us from remembering Him. Returning again and again to Baba in our thoughts and heart center is ever available to keep our inner vitality alive. As Baba said, “Don’t go anywhere without Me.” Over time the companionship with Baba enters into almost all the moments of our life; for some, He is ever-present. Equally important is to lose ourselves in the things we love doing, which, as Eruch says, is an unconscious remembrance of Baba. Such a life keeps us out of the lower frequencies of the world, what Darwin calls “our habitual paradigm”, and lifts us into the higher vibrations of the soul. Often Baba lovers and spiritual seekers come to the Center because they have reached a state in their lives where they feel they are stagnating, and they find that Baba’s presence on the Center and their receptivity renews their inner life and sends them on their inspired way. Going to Baba places and joining Baba get-togethers are often natural ways of keeping the inner life with Him alive. There are valuable practices that I inherited from the mandali that elevate my day. In my early years with Baba, I would wake up and immediately check in with my mood, that is, my sanskaras, to see how was I doing. Those first groggy impressions would then color my day and narrow my day down. From Darwin and Eruch, I learned to first check in with my connection with Baba, the joy and privilege of knowing that He is in my life, and that would give a real inner momentum to my day. There are many such practices that lift us out of ordinary consciousness. Witnessing Kitty Davy over the years, I could see that she came to each moment intensely aware and alert; there was no such thing as being half-aware or sleepy. She was fully present for each one, from the mailman to an elderly Baba lover to a small toddler, giving them her best for Baba. I never saw her bored; there were no moments when she was only partially aware and uninspired, and she carried that spirit right up to her hundredth birthday! The mandali told us if we take one step toward Baba, He takes ten steps toward us. What do you do when you find yourself in a dull period of the day or for a longer stagnant period in your life? How do you re-ignite that original spark that inspired you to draw closer to Baba and the inner life? In His love, Jeff P.S. We are continuing on page 61 A link to the PDF of Effort and Grace: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xrR75eksY-tErdKZm9aOBs3omuhioasb/view?usp=sharing

    1h 18m

  6. 6 JAN

    Late Night Chat with Jeff Wolverton: E&G: ”The Value of the Opposites,” Jan 5, 2026, live Baba Zoom

    Dear folks of Baba, Whether we like it or not, Baba has built into Creation the conflict between the opposites such as good and bad, masculine and feminine, justice and injustice, superiority and inferiority, repression and indulgence, moral and immoral. These opposites make their appearance at the level of daily life. When these opposites clash, like the two poles of a battery, they generate great power, both positive as well as negative. The energy released when the opposites meet, if integrated properly by us, has the potential of lifting us out of the dual realm and propelling us to a higher level, giving us an experience of oneness. More often, however, the conflict of the opposites initially evokes a negative reaction in us, and we attempt to suppress one of the opposites and accentuate the other. Do we perceive these conflicts as originating in others alone or do we perceive these conflicts as coming from Baba through others? In either case, a great deal of adjustment is usually required to resolve the clash of the opposites. Our inner harmony can depend on whether we take these opposites and the often herculean adjustment required as a challenge from Baba or an irritation manufactured by the world. Can we find the third position, as Carl Jung, the famous psychiatrist, referred to, beyond the duality where the conflict of the opposites is resolved? According to him, whenever there is any problem, there will be two opposite approaches for resolving it. Neither solution will be correct, but must undergo the tension that will result, if one perseveres, in a third approach. That third approach will result in an integration of the duality within the individual’s psyche. Darwin says, “The combination creates a balance of the opposites; the tension of the paradox creates a current, releasing the locked energy, creating momentum, and canceling out both of the opposites. The effect is that we are bringing together two forces, a positive and a negative, which ignite and create energy, and, together with the self-denial that is part of the spiritual path, precipitate the consciousness to a higher level. However, if you act on [only] one of them, the current is diffused.” In explaining this phenomenon of opposites, Bhau, one of the intimate mandali, would occasionally say, “Sometimes it takes a nightmare to wake us up from a pleasant dream.” We have a great resistance to being awakened even when it is for our own good; we tend to resist change and so easily justify our negative reaction. There are many ways that the conflict between the opposites makes its appearance. Baba gives the example of the polarity of the masculine and feminine qualities in us. When these opposites are embodied in two persons as they interact, they can generate a tremendous energy and even inspire a lifelong love and devotion. Someone in love can cross deserts on foot, suffering incredible thirst and hunger, just to be with his or her beloved. But also, if a person loses their loved one to someone else, especially if jealousy enters the picture, the energy created by the polarities can result in a lifelong hostility. Both responses generate great energy. Baba says that to overcome the polarity of male and female is to overcome much of the problem of duality. In the Discourses, He writes, “The transcending of the sex duality does not amount to overcoming all duality, but it certainly goes a long way towards facilitating the complete transcendence of duality in all its forms.” To overcome this duality, Baba says what is required for the individual is to experience, through imaginative or intuitive projection, what their partner feels themselves to be in their own experience, rather than viewing their partner through their own personal lens. In this experience, the individual finds a third way, a resolution above duality through non-identification with the gender of the body. And this third way comes about through the energy brought on by the clash of the opposites itself, which Baba uses as a tool for our awakening. Baba describes the ultimate challenge of rising above the opposites in these words: Remember in the future, that when anyone hurts you, it is I who hurt you; when anyone loves you, it is I who loves you; when anyone laughs at you, it is I who am laughing; when you love anyone, it is I whom you love. I am in all things. How can you realize My infinite presence if you shrink from me in those who hurt you and welcome Me only in those who please you? In His love, Jeff A link to the PDF of Effort and Grace: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xrR75eksY-tErdKZm9aOBs3omuhioasb/view?usp=sharing

    1h 19m

  7. 1 JAN

    New Year’s Day Quotes sharing meeting, Dec 31, 2025, live on Baba Zoom

    Participants are invited to bring their New Year's Day Quotes to share, out loud! Personalized Quotes are sent out via email to anyone who is listed in the Baba Zoom Community Directory. If you did not receive one, feel free to bring any favorite Baba quote to share! Tech host Diana Goodheart in NC This event was recorded live. To be first to be notified of a new video on this channel, please hit the red subscribe button, then the notifications bell. To join future live events, see www.babazoom.net. Please join our Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/meherbabafamily

    1h 1m

  8. 24/12/2025

    ”Christmas w/ the Living Christ” Charles Haynes &Christopher Wilson, Dec 24, 2025, live on Baba Zoom

    "Christmas with the Living Christ" - a Christmas message from Charles Haynes and Christopher Wilson. Hosted by Diana Goodheart in NC This event was recorded live. To be first to be notified of a new video on this channel, please hit the red subscribe button, then the notifications bell. To join future live events, see www.babazoom.net. Please join our Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/meherbabafamily

    1h 29m
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Different hosts, different topics, sometimes featured guests: but always about loving Meher Baba in the present tense. Conversations are held live on Baba Zoom at various times. If you want to join the conversation, visit babazoom.net for more information, login information is available under the ”Virtual Meetings” page.

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  • Creator
    Angela Lee Chen - Baba Zoom
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    100
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    © Copyright 2025 All rights reserved.
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    Conversations about Meher Baba