Church is Messy

Rick Henderson and Svea Merry
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Church is messy podcast recorded at Autumn Ridge Church in Rochester, MN

  1. -4 J

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Sex and the Resurrection

    Episode Summary: In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea return to 1 Corinthians—specifically chapter 6—to tackle the complex and often uncomfortable topic of sexuality. They explore how the Corinthian church was shaped by its culture, where distorted views of the body and sex were normalized, and connect that to how modern culture similarly “disciples” us today. The conversation highlights a biblical vision of sexuality as something good, sacred, and deeply connected to our spiritual lives—not separate from them. Rick and Svea clarify that while the Bible may not function like a rulebook, it consistently points to God’s design: faithful, lifelong covenant between one man and one woman in the covenant of marriage, while honestly portraying the brokenness that deviates from it. They also emphasize that people’s views of sexuality are often shaped by early experiences they didn’t choose, but through Jesus, there is always an opportunity to move forward without shame and pursue a better way. The episode underscores that our bodies matter—that we are “temples of the Holy Spirit”—and that how we live physically reflects our faith. Ultimately, the discussion calls listeners to be aware of the cultural “algorithms” shaping them, to take formation seriously, and to embrace a higher, more holistic vision of sexuality and the body—one rooted in grace, intentionality, and following Jesus.  Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 - Intro 01:17 - Easter Sunday reading of 1 Corinthians 15 02:26 - Sexuality in the Corinthian church / prostitution as cultural norm 04:32 - Greek philosophy: the body as disposable 06:19 - How the Bible addresses sexuality (descriptive vs. prescriptive) 07:49 - Polygamy in the Old Testament 09:14 - God's original design for sexuality (Genesis ideal) 10:53 - God's positive view of sex (Proverbs 5, Song of Solomon) 14:08 - How we're introduced to sex shapes how we define it 14:47 - Sexuality class icebreaker story (doctorate program) 17:49 - Sexual "algorithm" — cultural formation & overcoming shame 19:03 - Church's stance on cohabitation / following Jesus in sexuality 20:57 - The body as temple of the Holy Spirit 25:24 - Sexual habits in singleness and their impact on marriage 27:09 - Honoring God with all physical habits (drink, rest, Sabbath) 29:29 - Wrap-up & preview of next week (marriage)

    30 min

  2. 1 AVR.

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Be Silent

    Rick and Svea unpack a challenging (“rugged”) passage from 1 Corinthians 14, focusing on orderly worship, spiritual gifts (like speaking in tongues), and a difficult line about women in the church. Rather than avoiding tension, they model how to engage it—encouraging listeners to interpret unclear passages through what’s clear, use context, and patiently wrestle toward understanding.  The conversation moves beyond the text into formation: following Jesus means honesty, not performance. They challenge “performative spirituality”—using religious language or practices to impress rather than connect—and call the church to authenticity, humility, and clarity, especially for the sake of those still exploring faith. Ultimately, the episode centers on being a church that is clear, welcoming, and distraction-free in its worship—where everything we do helps people see Jesus, not us. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 - Intro01:25 - 1 Corinthians 14: Orderly Worship & Speaking in Tongues 02:29 - How to Interpret Difficult Passages06:10 - Emotional Honesty When Reading the Bible07:25 - Rick's Personal Bible Study Method10:09 - Vulnerability & Authenticity in Church Community13:47 - Performative Spirituality17:47 - Personal Experiences with Charismatic Worship19:47 - Order vs. Freedom in Worship23:03 - Sermon Prep: Manuscript vs. Extemporaneous Preaching25:02 - Clarity, Jesus, and the Purpose of Scripture30:38 - Being a Good Ambassador at Easter

    33 min

  3. 25 MARS

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - 1 Corinthians 13

    In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea revisit 1 Corinthians 13 following Svea’s weekend sermon—looking beyond its reputation as a wedding passage to what Paul was actually addressing in a deeply dysfunctional church. What emerges is a clear picture of spiritual maturity shaped by love. Svea shares how her understanding of the passage grew as she studied it, alongside a six-stage framework of spiritual growth—discovering, learning, doing, contemplating, becoming, and loving—and the experience many encounter as “the wall,” where faith can feel uncertain or stalled. Rather than signaling failure, this season may be an invitation to deeper, more lasting transformation. The conversation also names a tension many feel: much of church culture emphasizes learning and doing, while the deeper, more inward work of formation often goes unexplored. Through practical examples like patience, Rick and Svea show the movement from something we try to practice to something that becomes part of who we are as we follow Jesus. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 — Intro01:07 — Introducing the sermon on 1 Corinthians 13.01:14 — Svea's initial reaction to preaching the Love Chapter.02:36 — The true context of 1 Cor. 13: love as a recipe for a dysfunctional church, not a wedding poem.06:11 — What was left on the cutting room floor (tongues, knowledge ceasing, preview of Rick's next sermon).08:10 — Paul's character: the tension between his perceived harshness and writing the most beautiful words about love.10:41 — The opening sermon illustration: love that is imperfect but genuine vs. flawless but loveless.12:53 — Introduction to the Spiritual Growth Framework.12:57 — Stages 1–3: Discovering, Learning, and Doing.17:41 — The Wall: what it is, what causes it, and why it's not a punishment.23:41 — Stage 4: Contemplating (and why the church has an allergy to it).25:16 — Stage 5: Becoming (motivation shifting from obligation to identity).27:30 — Stage 6: Loving (virtue becoming instinctive, not intentional).29:56 — Practical walkthrough of all six stages using patience as the example.

    35 min

  4. 18 MARS

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Spiritual Gifts

    This episode of "Church Is Messy" unpacks the sermon Rick preached on 1 Corinthians 12 and the topic of spiritual gifts. Rick opened that message with a reflection on mortality — the "dash" between a person's birth and death date — prompting a lively discussion about whether they'd want to know their end date in advance (both say yes, though they acknowledge they're in the minority). This leads into the central theme: how an awareness of limited time should motivate intentional use of the gifts God has given each person. Rick and Svea explore several facets of spiritual gifting: how to discover your gifts (through prayer, availability, and asking others for feedback), the pitfalls of spiritual gift surveys (which can cause people to feel exempt from responsibilities they score low in, like hospitality or evangelism), and the importance of leaning into strengths rather than fixating on weaknesses. Rick shares his own conviction that teaching God's word is his irreplaceable calling, while also emphasizing that all spiritual gifts — from encouragement to listening to generosity — can be exercised anywhere, not just in formal ministry roles. The episode closes on a devotional note, with both hosts reflecting that a life oriented outward toward others — living as a "there you are" person rather than a "here I am" person — is not only God's design but also the source of the deepest joy. Svea teases the upcoming weekend's message (her turn to preach), which will continue into 1 Corinthians 13 on love as the ultimate motivation for using one's gifts. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 — Intro03:44 — Recap of the Sermon on 1 Corinthians 12 / Spiritual Gifts04:41 — Would You Want to Know Your End Date?09:10 — Rick's Personal Calling and Use of His Gifts11:04 — Every Believer Is Gifted14:04 — Barriers to Using Your Gifts18:03 — The Downside of Spiritual Gift Surveys26:38 — Living Out Your Dash with Intentionality31:24 — Preview of the Upcoming Weekend

    32 min

  5. 11 MARS

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Food Fight

    In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea explore the second half of 1 Corinthians 11, where Paul sharply rebukes the Corinthian church for their divisive behavior during communion. Paul’s warning reveals how seriously God takes unity within the church. Rick explains that unity is not just a goal for Christians—it reflects God’s very nature as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The problem in Corinth wasn’t personal sin before communion, but pretending to be unified while practicing division, as wealthier believers feasted while the poor went hungry. Rick and Svea discuss what true unity looks like in practice: moving beyond tolerance to actively honoring and welcoming people across differences in age, background, culture, and life stage. They remind listeners that biblical unity in diversity is not a cultural trend but an ancient foundation of the church. The episode closes with a picture of this unity in action through multigenerational faith communities learning from one another around the same table. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 - Intro02:32 - Introduction to 1 Corinthians 11 Passage03:39 - God's Discipline and Importance of Unity04:37 - The Trinity and Unity07:01 - A Thought Experiment08:40 - Divine Discipline vs. Condemnation09:42 - Better Not to Meet - A Church Out of Whack10:20 - Taking Communion in an Unworthy Manner12:33 - Communion as a Meal in Small Groups13:32 - Clarifying Unity in Christ vs. Loving All People15:42 - The Tolerate, Celebrate, Elevate Progression16:30 - Philippians 2 - The Mind of Christ18:11 - Practical Application in Church Life20:32 - Idealized Small Group Expectations21:07 - Loneliness Epidemic22:51 - Cultural Shift on Unity and Diversity26:54 - Christian Foundation for Unity28:12 - Beauty and Goodness of Unity30:38 - Preview of Next Week

    31 min

  6. 4 MARS

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Hairy Stuff

    In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea tackle one of the most notoriously difficult passages in the New Testament: 1 Corinthians 11, which discusses head coverings and gender roles. The conversation centers on how people tend to retreat into fundamentalism—grasping at simplistic, dogmatic answers—when facing uncertainty or complex biblical texts. Rick explains that this impulse appears across the theological spectrum, from those who dismiss difficult passages entirely to those who impose rigid, literalistic interpretations without acknowledging the real complexities involved. The heart of their discussion explores why 1 Corinthians 11 is so challenging to interpret. Even top scholars disagree on fundamental questions: What does "head of" mean when Paul says God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man, and man is the head of woman? Does it signify authority, source, unity, or preeminence? Rick presents Lucy Peppiatt's scholarly theory as one reasonable explanation while acknowledging it cannot be definitively proven. He emphasizes that any valid interpretation must account for all the facts without contradicting itself or the rest of scripture. Svea shares her personal experience of feeling stress and anxiety when hearing this passage read, even in the healthy environment of Autumn Ridge, reflecting the real impact these texts have on women in ministry. Ultimately, Rick and Svea encourage listeners to approach difficult scripture with confidence, curiosity, and courage rather than contempt or cynicism. They stress that it's spiritually mature to say "I don't know yet" and to trust in God's character while continuing to study and wrestle with hard passages. The main point Paul makes is clear despite all the complexity: men and women are interdependent, and all are fully dependent on God. Sometimes the most important lesson from a difficult passage isn't what it definitively says, but learning how to approach it with humility, rigorous study, and unwavering trust in God. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 Intro02:55 - Connecting Fundamentalism to the Difficult Passage05:56 - Fundamentalism as a Response to Uncertainty07:00 - Svea's Personal Experience as a Woman08:45 - The Umbrella Imagery10:35 - What Does "Head Of" Mean?11:47 - John Chrysostom's Fourth Century Perspective13:30 - Long Unbound Hair & Cultural Context14:22 - Rick's Full Interpretation of "Headship"17:02 - Jesus' Functional Subordination19:27 - The Mystery of Angels in the Passage19:54 - Spiritual Maturity in Uncertainty21:29 - God Beyond Full Comprehension22:35 - Approaching Difficult Scripture as Worship23:18 - Lucy Peppiatt's Theory23:56 - Evaluating Competing Interpretations26:00 - Paul's Main Point: Interdependence26:25 - Dealing with Personal Bias28:46 - What to Remember a Year from Now30:54 - Preston Sprinkle's 20-Year Wrestling31:21 - Learning How to Approach Scripture33:02 - Impact Story: Red Letters Only Christian33:35 - Closing & Moving Forward

    34 min

  7. 25 FÉVR.

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Fight Club

    Rick and Svea continue their challenging journey through First Corinthians, tackling Chapter 6 which addresses conflict within the church. They explore Paul's confronting question: "Why not rather be wronged?" and discuss how the Corinthian believers were taking each other to court instead of resolving disputes within the community. They examine three key perspectives: theological (understanding our eschatological identity in Christ), ecclesiological (recognizing we're one body and conflict hurts us all), and leadership (accepting that being misunderstood comes with the territory). They share personal vulnerabilities about their own "insecurity cards"—Rick's struggle with being misunderstood and Svea's feelings of inadequacy—and discuss how the cruciform lifestyle (self-sacrificing love modeled by Jesus on the cross) should shape how Christians handle conflict. The conversation emphasizes that while conflict is inevitable, we're called to seek security and satisfaction in Christ alone rather than demanding affirmation from others. They explore practical applications for church life, leadership, and personal relationships, highlighting how choosing to "rather be wronged" isn't about tolerating abuse but about prioritizing others' needs and protecting confidentiality—even when it means taking the hit yourself. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 Introduction01:45 Nine Sacred Pathways & Spiritual Connection04:45 Conflict in the Corinthian Church06:35 Insecurity Cards Discussion09:10 Self-Awareness & Growth12:10 Jesus & Paul Were Misunderstood13:10 Taking an Eschatological Perspective15:25 Cruciform Way of Life18:15 Three Lenses: Theological Perspective21:25 "Why Not Rather Be Wronged?"22:43 Three lenses: Ecclesiological Perspective - Body of Christ 25:20 Not Demanding Affirmation from Others27:50 Woman at the Well - John 429:10 Representing Jesus Well30:25 Three lenses: Leadership Perspective - Being Misunderstood 31:52 Leadership & Confidentiality34:35 Practical Leadership Example37:00 Decision Tree - When to Take the Hit38:15 Closing Remarks

    39 min

  8. 18 FÉVR.

    Church Is Messy: Church in the Wild - Sex, Judgment, and Church

    In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea tackle one of the most uncomfortable passages in the New Testament: 1 Corinthians 5. They discuss a shocking situation in the Corinthian church where a man was sleeping with his stepmother, and the congregation was doing nothing about it. Rick and Svea explore the tension between creating a church where people feel safe in struggling with sin while still maintaining biblical standards. They unpack what it means to address sin within the church versus judging those outside it, and why Paul's instruction to "hand this man over to Satan" was actually an act of love aimed at restoration. The conversation covers challenging questions like: How do we balance grace and accountability? What's the difference between being judgmental and exercising discernment? And how should Christians engage with cultural issues without becoming the "morality police"? Whether you're wrestling with how to approach sin in your own life or wondering how the church should respond to difficult situations, this episode offers a thoughtful, grace-filled perspective on navigating one of Scripture's messiest passages. Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 - Introduction & Overview of 1 Corinthians 5 01:14 - The Situation in Corinth 03:23 - Relevance to Modern Church Life 04:28 - Pastoral Heart & Balancing Grace with Truth 07:26 - "Lowered the Bar, Raised the Standard" 08:50 - Struggling vs. Stubbornly Entrenched in Sin 10:34 - "Who Rules" vs. "What Are the Rules" 12:55 - Addressing Sin Within vs. Outside the Church 14:25 - Wanting Good for Non-Believers Without Being Judgmental 17:03 - Judgment vs. Discernment 19:01 - Christians, Politics & Voting 20:00 - Roe v. Wade & Pro-Life Position 26:36 - Early Church Example: Infant Exposure in Rome 28:12 - Addressing Sin Among Believers 28:53 - "Hand This Man Over to Satan" 30:26 - Letting People Experience Consequences 31:04 - Wisdom Cannot Be Reduced to Rules 33:58 - "Don't Even Eat With Such People" 37:12 - The Agape Feast & Lord's Supper 40:02 - Creating a Safe Church for Struggling Believers 42:55 - How Church Discipline Works in Practice 46:53 - Preview of Next Episode

    48 min
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Church is messy podcast recorded at Autumn Ridge Church in Rochester, MN

Informations

  • Création
    Rick Henderson and Svea Merry
  • Années d’activité
    2022 - 2026
  • Épisodes
    140
  • Classification
    Tous publics
  • Copyright
    © 2024 Rick Henderson
  • Site web de l’émission
    Church is Messy

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