Future Learning Design Podcast

Tim Logan

We are stuck in an old paradigm, with institutional structures that were built for a world that no longer exists. Within education, passionate entrepreneurs & committed citizens are no longer waiting for these broken formal institutions to be reformed. All over the world, they're designing & building their own local responses with relationships at their core. These are the education ecosystems that our young people need and out of which new institutions will emerge.  This podcast is an inquiry into these fundamental changes and an invitation to join the movement to help drive positive change.

  1. Career and Life Pathways for Young People in Turbulent Times - A Conversation with Global Experts

    5 OCT

    Career and Life Pathways for Young People in Turbulent Times - A Conversation with Global Experts

    One of our main roles as educators is to support and help our young people figure out who they are and how they want to contribute to the world. Given our current context of rapid technological change with social, technological and ecological challenges, questions about decisions for university, training and future options for young people is becoming increasingly challenging. Similarly, for educators and career and college guidance counsellors too, to be able to continuously navigate this rapidly changing terrain. Back in May, 2023, I had a conversation on the podcast with some young people who were expressing exactly these concerns about decisions and choices they were making in their lives about what courses to choose, and what careers to pursue. Since then I've been really wanting to bring together a group of global experts around this question. So it's a huge pleasure this week to be able to bring them together: Rosa Moreno-Zutautas: Rosa is Global Director - Program Strategy & Partnerships at IC3 Institute. With a background in Clinical Psychology and a graduate degree in Mental Health Psychology, Rosa is dedicated to helping young individuals uncover their potential and purpose in life. Originally from Venezuela, raised in the United States, and currently residing in Canada, Rosa is passionate about IC3's vision of providing career guidance in every school. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosa-moreno-zutautas-278767147/) The 2025 Student Quest Report (that Rosa refers to in the conversation) will be released shortly and available here: https://ic3institute.org/research-and-publications/ Anisa Shaikh: Anisa is an experienced senior career & admissions consultant, customer success program & project manager with 12+ years of experience in ed-tech, SaaS, app marketing & media production. She is skilled in leading diverse teams, building partnerships & scaling operations to enhance customer experience & drive revenue growth in dynamic environments (https://www.linkedin.com/in/anisashaikh/). Kathleen deLaski: Kathleen is an education and workforce designer, as well as an author. She founded the Education Design Lab in 2013 to help colleges begin the journey to reimagine higher education toward the future of work. Kathleen now serves as board chair at EDL and on the board of Credential Engine. She spends time as a senior advisor to the Project on Workforce at Harvard University and teaches human-centered design and higher ed reform as an adjunct professor in the Honors College at George Mason University. Kathleen is the author of ‘Who Needs College Anymore: Imagining a Future Where Degrees Won't Matter’ (https://www.whoneedscollegeanymore.org/). https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleen-delaski-1089012b/; Anthony Mann: Anthony is a youth career development researcher and policymaker at Critical Transitions, and until recently was Senior Policy Analyst at OECD. Anthony is the author of The State of Global Teenage Career Preparation, OECD, published in May 2025 (https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/the-state-of-global-teenage-career-preparation_d5f8e3f2-en.html). https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-mann-81aaba17/ Shira Woolf Cohen: Shira is a founding partner at Innovageous, an education consulting group focused on ensuring continuity of learning and inclusive opportunities for all children. Prior to founding Innovageous, Shira served as the principal of New Foundations Charter School (2014-2020) and is the recipient of the G. Bernard Gill Award for Urban Service-Learning Leadership. Shira is also the author of ‘Leading Future-Focused Schools: Engaging and Preparing Students for Career Success’ (https://www.amazon.com/Leading-Future-Focused-Schools-Engaging-Preparing/dp/B0F9VWS8Z7)

    1h 33m
  2. Learning Peace to Resolve Conflict, not Remove It - A Conversation with Dr Luke Roberts

    20 SEPT

    Learning Peace to Resolve Conflict, not Remove It - A Conversation with Dr Luke Roberts

    In 1981, the UN established the International Day of Peace to commemorate and strengthen the ideals of peace. In a time when both the influence of multilateral institutions like the UN is being questioned, and the peace we need is in rapidly shortening supply as violence becomes the norm, my guest this week is doing amazing work with communities to find more peaceful paths through questions of conflict resolution by taking a systemic and complexity-informed approach. How we engage our young people in responding peacefully to the inevitable conflict they experience in their own lives feels like a critical part of what we do as educators, but so is being open to question the way in which violence and harm can also be normalised by the systems in which we live and work. Dr Luke Roberts is the founder and Chief Executive Officer at Resolve Consultants (https://resolveconsultants.com/ ) and the author of ‘Leading Schools and Sustaining Innovation: How to Think Big and Differently in Complex Systems’ (https://www.routledge.com/Leading-Schools-and-Sustaining-Innovation-How-to-Think-Big-and-Differently/Roberts/p/book/9781032015620?utm_source=link&utm_medium=society_association&utm_campaign=B052718_pb1_5ll_6rm_t012_1al_9781032015620). Throughout his career, he has focused on conflict resolution, systems change and sustaining innovation. He completed his PhD at Cambridge in 2020. The focus of his research was the sustainability of innovation in organisations when viewed as socially Complex Adaptive Systems. He is an applied social scientist who uses System Thinking and Complexity Theory to address messy and ambiguous challenges which organisations and society face. He works across the private, and public sector helping leaders to understand their ecosystem and apply creative solutions to ill-defined and systemic issues in policy and practice. His work often involves understanding the creativity within organisations and communities which allows them to thrive. Conversations often focus on points of conflict in the system and what are the ways in this hinders opportunity and benefits. Luke has worked in the policy space with APPGs, Parliamentarians and Ministers, he has also advised policy leaders on multi-departmental working to address system issues. He is presently developming a leadership model which aligns with complex systems.

    38 min
  3. Moving Beyond Binaries in Learning, Loving, and Living - A Conversation with Andrea Hiott

    6 SEPT

    Moving Beyond Binaries in Learning, Loving, and Living - A Conversation with Andrea Hiott

    I've been so looking forward to sharing this conversation as it is an area that I am particularly passionate about. I feel very strongly that the way we think and talk about learning, teaching and education is so rooted in Behaviorism and Cognitivism and the dominant language of training and metaphors of the brain as a computer. And there is a still a widespread lack of awareness of the emerging insights of cognitive science - often called 4E cognitive science, referring to embodied, embedded, extended and enactive cognition. This is the idea that our understanding, thinking and learning in the world happen in our relationships with each other, our environments, the tools we use, and our bodies, not just as abstract representations in our brains. And there is no-one better to be talking about this with than Andrea Hiott who among other fantastic work, is the host of the Love and Philosophy channel and substack. All of her life, Andrea says, she has been motivated towards the same goal: "Finding ways for us to move beyond either/or mindsets, and to explore our multiplicity." Andrea is a philosopher, cognitive scientist and writer and is currently a researcher at numerous universities, she is also the author of various books, including Thinking Small and her latest book ‘Holding Paradox: the navigational approach to mind and consciousness’ is out in 2026. Andrea's website: https://www.andreahiott.net/ Andrea's Love and Philosophy channel: https://lovephilosophy.substack.com/ Andrea's community philosophy Substack called Waymaking: https://communityphilosophy.substack.com/ Just released: Andrea's latest paper on 'Radical Embodied Relation at any Scale, from Remembering to Navigating' - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11245-025-10256-7 Useful paper on 'What is 4E Cognitive Science?' by Cameron Alexander: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11097-025-10055-w

    53 min
  4. Outgrowing Modernity - A Conversation with Vanessa Machado de Oliveira Andreotti, Giovanna de Oliveira Andreotti and Manda Scott

    12 AUG

    Outgrowing Modernity - A Conversation with Vanessa Machado de Oliveira Andreotti, Giovanna de Oliveira Andreotti and Manda Scott

    To mark the moment and celebrate the release of Vanessa Machado de Oliveira Andreotti's new book 'Outgrowing Modernity: Navigating Complexity, Complicity, and Collapse with Accountability and Compassion', we are so happy to be able to bring you this fantastic episode! It is the sequel to Vanessa's 'Hospicing Modernity', which was published in 2021 and in 4 short years has become one of the most important books of the century. This new book is arguably even better, and Krista Tippett, the award-winning journalist, author, and public intellectual has called it "a moral, intellectual, and spiritual masterpiece." But one of the best things about it is that it is a workbook, full of guidance for the strength, endurance and flexibility training that we need to be doing ourselves and in our communities and organisations to meet the moment we are deeply in. It is not a work that can simply be ingested for its truth-telling, as you will very much hear from Vanessa in the conversation. The book was released, yesterday Tuesday 12 August, so be sure to order your copy soon! In collaboration with Manda Scott and her wonderful Accidental Gods channel, we are so happy to be able to share this fantastic conversation between Vanessa, her daughter Giovanna de Oliveira Andreotti, myself and Manda. Vanessa de Oliveira Andreotti is the Dean of the Faculty of Education at the University of Victoria. She is a former Canada Research Chair in Race, Inequalities and Global Change and a former David Lam Chair in Critical Multicultural Education. Vanessa has worked extensively across sectors internationally in areas of education related to global justice, global citizenship, critical literacies, Indigenous knowledge systems and the climate and nature emergency. Vanessa is the author of Hospicing Modernity: Facing humanity’s wrongs and the implications for social activism, one of the founders of the Gesturing Towards Decolonial Futures Arts/Research Collective and one of the designers of the course Facing Human Wrongs: Climate Complexity and Relational Accountability, available at UVic through Continuing Studies. Giovanna de Oliveira Andreotti is a Dancer/dance teacher, GTDF member, certified Warm Data Lab host, R4Rs founder, and online course facilitator/co-ordinator. Giovanna has been involuntarily steeped in depth-education from birth (courtesy of her mother, Vanessa Andreotti). Giovanna holds a Bachelor's in Psychology from UBC, postgraduate certifications in Climate Psychology and Embodied Social Justice, and currently coordinates an inquiry that maps pedagogical practices addressing complexity, complicity, collapse, and accountability. If you have more questions about Aiden Cinnamon Tea and the meta-relational approach to AI that we discuss, check out these FAQs: https://burnoutfromhumans.net/anticipated-questions And the Speculative Inquiry into Meta-Relational AI can be found here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KFJIVY9slGTcpWBwoMYQwbeKLfV3rNHo/view?usp=sharing And further inquiries can be found here: https://metarelational.ai/projects-and-prototypes Links: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/783178/outgrowing-modernity-by-vanessa-machado-de-oliveira/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/675703/hospicing-modernity-by-vanessa-machado-de-oliveira/ https://decolonialfutures.net/ https://burnoutfromhumans.net/ https://r4rs.org/

    1h 31m
  5. Reimagining Development - A Conversation with Dr Uma Pradhan and Dr Peter Sutoris

    2 AUG

    Reimagining Development - A Conversation with Dr Uma Pradhan and Dr Peter Sutoris

    What it means to be an educated person or have an educated population as a country is a big part of what informs the decisions around industrial, economic and education policy. But built into these questions are some fundamental assumptions about what it means to make progress or be developed as a society. And beneath that particular values about what it means to know and be in the world. My guests this week have been exploring these precise questions in the context of international development but as you will hear there are so many resonances with the conversations that we are sharing about change in education.  Dr. Uma Pradhan and Dr. Peter Sutoris are the authors of the new book 'Reimagining Development: Bold Directions Towards a Thriving World'. Uma is an Associate Professor at IOE, UCL's Faculty of Education and Society, and Deputy Programme Leader for BA Education, Culture, and Society. She also serves as Inclusion Co-Lead for the Department of Education, Practice and Society (EPS). At UCL, she is part of the Centre for Education and International Development (CEID) and the Centre for the Study of South Asia and the Indian Ocean World. Before joining UCL, she was a Lecturer and Leverhulme Early Career Fellow at the University of Oxford.  She is author and co-author of many books including, Language Education, Politics and Technology in South Asia; Anthropological Perspectives on Education in Nepal: Educational Transformations and New Avenues of Learning; Rethinking Education in the Context of Post-Pandemic South Asia; Simultaneous Identities: Language, Education and the Nepali Nation. Peter is Associate Professor in Climate and Development in the School of Earth and Environment at Leeds University in the UK. His work bridges anthropology with education, development studies and environmental studies.Prior to this new book with Uma, Peter authored two books, Visions of Development (Oxford University Press, 2016), Educating for the Anthropocene (The MIT Press, 2022), all tackling the central questions about how humanity might be able to imagine its path to survival through the unfolding environmental multi-crisis. Links:The book: https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/development-reimagined/ https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/87070-uma-pradhan/about⁠ https://www.petersutoris.com/ https://environment.leeds.ac.uk/see

    39 min
  6. Sparking Curiosity and an Ethic of Care Across Continents - A Conversation with Ramji Raghavan

    26 JUL

    Sparking Curiosity and an Ethic of Care Across Continents - A Conversation with Ramji Raghavan

    As I explore different aspects of the education transition that we need globally, and is emerging, it is increasingly clear that schools (or what might replacement them) won't be the only thing required. There is a huge amount of possibility and power in a broader ecosystem of organisations and networks taking different roles in enabling a more creative, meaning-rich, relational educational experience for young people and for communities. This week it is a huge privilege to be able to share the story of one such organisation that has been quietly getting on with incredible and impactful work doing precisely this for the last few decades at an absolutely massive scale across India. Ramji Raghavan is Founder Chairman of Agastya International Foundation. Ramji leads the world's largest hands-on Mobile Education Program for economically disadvantaged children and teachers. In 1998, Ramji left his commercial career in banking and finance to create Agastya International Foundation, to provide science education to over 25 million underprivileged children and 250,000 government school teachers across India. During his tenure, Agastya has pioneered many educational innovations at scale, including mobile science labs, lab-on-a-bike and peer-to-peer learning via mega science fairs for underprivileged children. Agastya's 172-acre campus creativity lab houses over fifteen experiential science, art and innovation centers, including the Ramanujan Math Park. With support from the government of Andhra Pradesh, Ramji and his colleagues established a 172-acre campus creativity lab near Bangalore. In 2010 the Government of Karnataka signed a MoU with Agastya International Foundation to establish an ecosystem for hands-on science education in the state. Wisdom of Agastya, an illustrated book authored by Vasant Nayak and Shay Taylor of the MurthyNayak Foundation in Baltimore, USA, chronicles Ramji and his team's journey between 1999 and 2014 in building Agastya International Foundation. In 2021 Agastya announced the creation of Navam Innovation Foundation in partnership with the Pravaha Foundation of Hyderabad. Ramji was a member of the Prime Minister’s National Knowledge Commission (Working Group on attracting children to Science and Math), is a member of the board of Vigyan Prasar, New Delhi, the Karnataka State Innovation Council and Executive Council member of the Visvesvaraya Industrial and Technological Museum. In 2009, he was elected a Senior Fellow by Ashoka and in 2011 he was conferred the People’s Hero Award by the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) (Southern Zone). https://www.agastya.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramji_Raghavan @AgastyaOrg on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/AgastyaOrg The book: 'The Moving of Mountains: The Remarkable Story of the Agastya International Foundation' by Adhirath Sethi (LID Publications): https://adhirathsethi.com/the-moving-of-mountains David Penburg's article about his time at Agastya, The Owl That Flies Silently: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bEeVpAE8J8LS5JAQJYxtrYEEVX2G6Ju7/view?usp=sharing

    43 min
  7. Going Back to First Principles to Replace "School" - A Conversation with Dr Kapono Ciotti

    19 JUL

    Going Back to First Principles to Replace "School" - A Conversation with Dr Kapono Ciotti

    If we are going to radically rethink and perhaps replace schools as the dominant institutions of education, what are the first principles questions that we should be asking? And what is the cultural rootedness and traditions that might provide a sense of guidance for these questions? I can't think of a better person to be exploring this with than Dr Kapono Ciotti, whose work in leadership and collaboration across countries, cultures and systems, and across decades, has allowed him to see and participate in these fundamental and urgent questions from many different perspectives. Dr Kapono Ciotti is a globally recognized leader who believes that education is the most profound act of social justice. As CEO of the Pacific American Foundation (https://www.thepaf.org/) in Hawai'i, he builds pilina (deep connections) between people, systems, and ideas to empower and support the transformation of communities. Drawing from his Native Hawaiian heritage, Kapono integrates moʻokūʻauhau (genealogy and legacy) and makawalu (the ability to see from multiple perspectives) into his work, creating innovative solutions rooted in culture, ‘ike kupuna, and sustainability. Kapono’s international credibility spans decades of leadership and collaboration across countries, cultures, and systems. He worked as the Executive Director of What School Could Be. He is the co-author of The Landscape Model of Learning (with Jennifer D. Klein), a groundbreaking framework that reimagines how students engage with knowledge and skills (https://www.solutiontree.com/landscape-model-of-learning.html). A sought-after speaker and facilitator, Kapono has worked with educators, cultural practitioners, philanthropic leaders, and policymakers worldwide to advance deeper learning, authentic assessment, and place-based practices. With a Ph.D. in Indigenous and International Education, a master’s degree in Social Change and Development, and a bachelor’s degree in Language and Cultural Studies, Kapono’s academic journey reflects his commitment to global transformation. His work bridges continents—from the Pacific Islands to West Africa and beyond—bringing Indigenous wisdom to the forefront of modern educational challenges. Whether leading systemic change, sharing his expertise with AI leaders, or paddling Hawaiian outrigger canoes, Kapono embodies the spirit of pilina, connecting people to their purpose, their place, and each other. His passion for education and development continues to inspire leaders around the world. Links Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kaponociotti/?hl=en LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-kapono-ciotti-99426746/

    42 min
  8. Making Meaning, Not Making Sense - A Conversation with Sam Crosby

    12 JUL

    Making Meaning, Not Making Sense - A Conversation with Sam Crosby

    In the business of education someone telling you that something doesn't make sense is usually the moment to step in and explain, support and resolve the confusion. Helping young people make sense of the world Is our job isn't it? But what if making sense sometimes gets in the way of making meaning?! What is our job as educators in creating opportunities for young people to cultivate meaning in their lives, however that might happen for them? I absolutely loved this comversation with Sam Crosby this week, as we explored his work around the role of ancient myth, story and elders in responding collectively to the times we're in, that many see as a crisis of meaning. There are so many ways that Sam describes the work he does in the world, so here are a few: – Motivational speaker: Three words have followed him through his journey as a speaker: peace, wisdom and courage. Sam helps people to realise they have everything they need inside them. All it takes is clarity. – Workshop host: After accessing ancient myth (particularly for the first time), there is a rare moment of connection with colleagues, friends, community, and Sam takes heart in holding spaces which have been described as ‘safe enough to share what was really going on for me’. – One-on-one guide: The main body of Sam's work is in groups, but he has always maintained a one-on-one connection with a handful of people. These opportunities to go deeper are always matched by those willing to ‘go there’. – Traditional oral storyteller: founder of Recalling Fire: the organisation bringing the oral tradition back to the modern west. Sam has facilitated immersive weekend-long events, hosted storytelling evenings and been guest speaker on stages and at rallies. – A ‘cryer’: a once guarded and proud man, Sam is now open and willing to model the vulnerability he accessed in coming to terms with the birth of his son with a profound brain disorder. – Well-versed in organisational environments: Sam has worked for over 10 years as a marketing and communications expert, representing agencies around the world before opening my own consultancy. – Sure-foot: He is a wild camper and a trainee mountain leader. He habitually practices ‘nature solos’ as guided by The Bio-Leadership Project, spending 24 hours alone in a wild spot without food, book, phone or anything else to ‘do’ as he focuses his energy on purely ‘being’. – Group guide: Sam has developed and facilitated events to bring the people of organisations and groups closer together, including conservationists with The Wildlife Trusts, activists with Right to Roam and social prescribers with Newquay Orchard. – Mentor, A Band of Brothers: the charity mentoring young men at risk of the justice system. – Fellow: The Bio-Leadership Fellowship. – Alumni: Dartington College of Arts, Dr Martin Shaw’s The Westcountry School of Myth and Advaya’s Rewilding Mythology – TEDx Speaker Sam also has a fantastic podcast called Drop the Map (https://open.spotify.com/show/6U3NnuKxk1zG4BYdMcahZa), and you can find out more about him at https://www.samuelcrosby.com/ and https://www.recallingfire.com. Other links: https://recallingfire.substack.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/campfiresam/

    56 min
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We are stuck in an old paradigm, with institutional structures that were built for a world that no longer exists. Within education, passionate entrepreneurs & committed citizens are no longer waiting for these broken formal institutions to be reformed. All over the world, they're designing & building their own local responses with relationships at their core. These are the education ecosystems that our young people need and out of which new institutions will emerge.  This podcast is an inquiry into these fundamental changes and an invitation to join the movement to help drive positive change.

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