Collaborative Craft

8th Light

Collaborative Craft navigates the ins and outs of software design and development. Host Jerome Goodrich is joined by fellow software, design, and technology professionals to discuss their ambitious project work and gain an understanding of the ever-shifting craft of software. As a consultant at 8th Light, Jerome has visibility into how different organizations — big, small, young, and old — navigate their technological challenges and transformations. Throughout this series, he dives into detailed and personal stories to uncover hidden complexities and discover how systems really work, and how companies really get things done. Learn more about 8th Light at www.8thlight.com

  1. Centering Outcomes Over Outputs with Mike Danaher and Hani Kruger

    15/06/2023

    Centering Outcomes Over Outputs with Mike Danaher and Hani Kruger

    High-quality software is built by small, interdisciplinary teams aligned to a shared outcome. Teams that have a shared context, tight feedback loops, and free-flowing communication—attributes that are even more critical for a project with seemingly impossible requirements.  In this episode, Jerome met with 8th Light team members Mike Danaher and Hani Kruger about a recent project to create a prototype intended to attract potential investors. The constraint of an extremely tight timeline acted like a crucible for quality software practices, leaving little room for error. In this discussion, they dive into the project details and explain how a small team working closely together delivered an ios app as a high-fidelity prototype in 3 short weeks.  (02:09) - The idea(06:26) - Project kickoff(07:27) - Bringing in Design(12:04) - Communication across timezones(17:20) - Centering outcomes over outputs(19:28) - What was built(26:52) - The client as Product Manager(28:16) - Good, not great(29:40) - Lessons learned(35:04) - The result Mike Danaher is a project director and long-time leader at 8th Light. He joined the company in 2014, and he’s gone from a crafter to a project director with experience leading dozens of projects, legacy and greenfield alike. Hani Kruger recently joined 8th Light as a UX designer. She has a background in research and usability and has worked in startup environments as well as big tech. Jerome Goodrich leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems as a principal software crafter at 8th Light. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website. You can listen to Collaborative Craft via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive notifications of the latest episodes. And if you enjoy what you’re hearing, please consider leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It really helps others find the show.  This podcast was produced in partnership with Dante32.

    38 min
  2. Serverless Architecture: Hype vs. Reality with Bill Wanjohi

    27/04/2023

    Serverless Architecture: Hype vs. Reality with Bill Wanjohi

    These days it seems like everyone’s walking around with their head in a cloud. On-prem hardware has an almost antiquated feel, while serverless options promise reduced cost, greater scalability, and increased team productivity.  But is that really the case? To find out, Jerome talked with Bill Wanjohi, a principal crafter at 8th Light, who brings deep experience in web services, relational databases, batch data processing pipelines, and the support systems needed to deploy, maintain, and secure them. In other words, he has a ton of experience helping organizations manage the tradeoffs of different approaches to server management. In this conversation, they dive into the world of serverless architectures by looking back at its technical foundations—defining the first steps into the cloud, exploring unintended consequences created, and questioning whether stopping at Docker containers would’ve been preferable. (01:44) - Bill’s bona fides(04:07) - The technical foundation for serverless (05:12) - Hardware virtualization: the first sea change(08:40) - Proliferation of virtual private servers(11:51) - Docker containers: solving the portability problem(14:21) - Reintroducing old problems(17:17) - Defining serverless(20:25) - Containers as a Service(23:17) - An orchestration nightmare?(28:00) - The upside of AWS Lambda(36:07) - Is a serverless future inevitable? Jerome Goodrich leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems as a principal software crafter at 8th Light. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website. Bill Wanjohi is a principal crafter at 8th Light who brings deep experience in web services, relational databases, batch data processing pipelines, and the support systems needed to deploy, maintain, and secure them. He’s currently leading a team of engineers building an auction platform with common building blocks, and he delivered an 8LU presentation on de-risking data migrations. Prior to joining 8th Light Bill consulted as a generalist software engineer, began and led a DevOps practice at a fast-growing cloud-based product company, administered many flavors of relational and analytical databases in several contexts, and generally gravitated to messy systems problems. Bill doesn’t consider himself a worrier by nature, but he doesn’t like getting caught flat-footed and has seen enough things go wrong that others might find him a tad paranoid. You can listen to Collaborative Craft via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive notifications of the latest episodes. And if you enjoy what you’re hearing, please consider leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It really helps others...

    43 min
  3. Programming for the Unhappy Path with Jeff Ramnani

    23/03/2023

    Programming for the Unhappy Path with Jeff Ramnani

    Will AI take our jobs? If only software was that simple. New technologies have a way of sparking our imagination in ways that don’t match the frustrating realities of integrating complex systems. Even a tool as thrilling as ChatGPT will only ever be able to work with what you give it, and integrations are full of underlying tradeoffs and contradictions at deeper levels of a system. Low-code and no-code solutions can be convenient ways for teams to expand their capabilities within the happy-path use cases, but what happens when it’s time to pivot, and you need to add new software to your workflow? How can you innovate without causing a drag on your organization’s broader tech ecosystem? In this episode, Jerome talks with Jeff Ramnani, principal crafter at 8th Light, about his recent internal talk, provocatively titled: Declarative Systems are a Lie. In this, he made a case for rethinking assumptions about some popular DevOps tools and considering downstream implications when making architectural decisions.  (02:50) - What the heck is a declarative system? (06:07) - When the system gets in the way of the solution(08:58) - Relative complexity of Chef vs Ansible(12:12) - Falling off the happy path(14:33) - Integrating no-code/low-code solutions(18:43) - How kludges are born(19:17) - Mind the escape hatch(23:07) - Living with legacy decisions Jeff Ramnani is an experienced software professional who has helped uncover and resolve issues across various layers of the tech stack, with a focus on building infrastructure operations tools that enable teams to be more productive and deliver high-quality software. Throughout his career, Jeff Ramnani has helped clients of all different sizes design and develop software systems that are robust and flexible to their needs. Since joining 8th Light, he has built on his generalist, technology-agnostic skill set to become a Technical Expert in DevOps. Jerome Goodrich leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems as a principal software crafter at 8th Light. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website. You can listen to Collaborative Craft via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive notifications of the latest episodes. And if you enjoy what you’re hearing, please consider leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It really helps others find the show.  This podcast was produced in partnership with Dante32.

    28 min
  4. Demystifying Machine Learning with Myles Megyesi and Pierce Edmiston

    23/02/2023

    Demystifying Machine Learning with Myles Megyesi and Pierce Edmiston

    In a continued series on all things data, Jerome meets with 8th Light Principal Crafters Myles Megyesi and Pierce Edmiston to talk about machine learning. Along with AI, it's an area of tech that gets a lot of attention and is often spoken about as some mysterious black box that can solve all the problems. In this discussion, they break apart the black box and the various misconceptions surrounding ML by looking at how it’s implemented in real-world, production-level applications. They also cover the value of having data scientists and engineers working together on machine learning projects, and how all the usual rules and best practices for writing good code still apply.  (03:13) - Why all the hype?(07:39) - Avoiding Rube Goldberg traps(12:19) - Using Ml without a data science background(17:03) - Document AI - a case study on implementing an ML model(24:52) - Knowing the category of your machine learning problem (29:15) - Approaching ML like any other framework(31:28) - Is data engineering truly a unique skill set? Myles Megyesi loves design patterns, functional programming, and popcorn. He is an experienced software crafter who enjoys writing software and nurturing its constant growth into something tangible. Throughout his career at 8th Light, he has fulfilled several long-term engagements, focusing on database performance and coordinating distributed services. Pierce Edmiston combines a background in scientific research and statistics with experience bringing data products from R&D to product systems. He's worked with data teams at many levels of an organization, and he's passionate about bringing quality software tools and practices that enable data science teams to find more insights with more predictable data. Jerome Goodrich leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems as a principal software crafter at 8th Light. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website. You can listen to Collaborative Craft via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive notifications of the latest episodes. And if you enjoy what you’re hearing, please consider leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It really helps others find the show.  This podcast was produced in partnership with Dante32.

    37 min
  5. Relentless Optimism: The Future of Data Engineering with Brad Ediger

    19/01/2023

    Relentless Optimism: The Future of Data Engineering with Brad Ediger

    Kicking off a new series on all things data, Jerome talks with Brad Ediger, 8th Light's Head of Technology, about the state of data engineering, and takes the opportunity to scratch beneath the surface of Brad’s notorious optimism. They also dive into common challenges businesses face when dealing with data before doing a bit of time-traveling—looking at what’s possible today that was unthinkable 10 years ago, and speculating on where the industry might be a decade from now.  (01:59) - Brad’s background(03:41) - Optimistic perspective(06:41) - Challenge: Legacy System Maintenance(08:55) - Challenge: Lack of Standardization(11:30) - Challenge: Change Management(13:04) - Conway’s Law(14:26) - Challenge: Data Provenance(15:53) - Advances: Cloud Offerings(19:05) - Advances: DevOps Practices(20:32) - Future Predictions:  Immutable Data & Abstractions(23:57) - Future Predictions: Database Models(29:23) - Later Discussions: Compliance & Risk Management(30:38) - Later Discussions: Machine Learning Brad Ediger has been a staple in the Chicago tech scene since 2005. As 8th Light’s Head of Technology, his focus is on growing 8th Light's profile as a software consultancy. He joined 8th Light in 2019 when he merged his independent consultancy with the company. Brad specializes in connecting subject-matter experts with the tools they need to work more effectively — as exemplified by his success in supporting an e-commerce startup as they grew from five to 150 employees and through multiple rounds of investment. This includes providing wraparound software support, developing decision-support software, and using analytic data to optimize inventory dynamics. In 2007, early in the life of the Ruby on Rails web framework, Brad authored Advanced Rails, a book that goes in-depth on ways for developers to use Rails to build applications that scale. Jerome Goodrich leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems as a principal software crafter at 8th Light. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website. You can listen to Collaborative Craft via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive notifications of the latest episodes. And if you enjoy what you’re hearing, please consider leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It really helps others find the show.  This podcast was produced in partnership with Dante32.

    34 min
  6. Continuous Learning: Cultivating Engaged Teams with Paul Pagel

    24/03/2022

    Continuous Learning: Cultivating Engaged Teams with Paul Pagel

    Getting started in software development is more accessible than ever. Advancements in toolchains and frameworks have moved the starting point to a higher level where you can get results much more quickly. Beyond that baseline, developers and designers will still have to grow their skillsets to keep pace with the industry. For this, in-context, continuous learning is key. To kick off season two, 8th Light Co-CEO and Co-Founder Paul Pagel joins Jerome to discuss cultivating a company culture that facilitates in-context learning and encourages collaboration across levels of experience. Paul shares actionable advice for building problem-solving confidence through repetition and investing in team education. They also explore generalist and specialist approaches to the craft, and what it looks like to create engaged, interdisciplinary teams.   Be sure to stick around to the end for a look into the future of software development, where Paul considers the opportunities for developers and designers in Web3 and the potential for the blockchain to change the economic incentives of contribution.  (1:55) – Advancements in the industry(4:00) – A career in software development today(5:30) – Generalists and specialists(9:58) – Team composition(12:17) – Learning + engagement = productivity(13:52) – Cultivating engagement(16:50) – GitHub and Builder DAO(19:22) – Economic incentives for contribution(21:00) – Team-based Web2 and individual-based Web3(22:25) – Autonomy and in-context learning(24:15) – Team charters(26:09) – A mentor, a peer group, and a community After starting his career as a software developer, Paul Pagel has spent the last fifteen years helping 8th Light partner with teams in more than a dozen industries. He is overseeing the evolution of the apprenticeship program, helping to map the curriculum to market trends, and, more recently, Paul has been leading 8th Light into exciting engagements in Web3, data engineering, product design, and more. Thomas Countz is a Senior Software Crafter at 8th Light where he works with a variety of ambitious teams on a variety of ambitious projects. A true curious nerd at heart, Thomas digs into everything from robotics and cider making to bouldering and Shakespeare’s comedies. To hear even more about Thomas, you can follow him on Twitter at @thomascountz and visit his blog at https://thomascountz.com. Jerome Goodrich is an adoring husband, new dog dad, and all-around curious explorer. Through his work as a Principal Software Crafter at 8th Light, Jerome leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website: https://jeromegoodrich.com 8th Light partners with businesses and community groups to craft software that unlocks human potential and makes the world a better place. We’re passionate about designing for people, inspiring through education, and empowering the future. With teams spread across the globe—including Chicago, London, Los Angeles, New York, Austin, and Madison—we’re always eager to hear about ambitious new projects. Learn more about our team and reach out at https://8thlight.com If you'd like to receive new...

    29 min
  7. Just in Time: Hands-On Learning with Aaron Patterson

    01/02/2022

    Just in Time: Hands-On Learning with Aaron Patterson

    “In my small way, hopefully I can help push society forward somewhat, in an as accessible way as possible. So you don't have to reinvent this particular wheel; you’ve got some kind of base you can build on. That's why I like to do stuff in public.“ Aaron Patterson is a stalwart of the Ruby community and current Senior Staff Engineer at Shopify. His latest project is TenderJIT and in this episode, he talks with Jerome and Thomas about how his hands-on learning approach created the path that led to writing a JIT compiler in Ruby. In a playful conversation, the three cover a variety of other topics including the connection between cheese-making and hardware development and how finding the “print” for your project is a shortcut to feedback loops. (01:52) - All about TenderJIT(04:37) - Is Ruby compiled?(06:50) - It’s like ERB for machine code(10:28) - Hands-on learning(13:55) - Pandemic hobbies(18:22) - Hardware development for cheesemaking(22:48) - From Java to Ruby(26:58) - The importance of asking why(32:55) - Figuring out project feedback loops(34:32) - Understanding multiple coding languages(36:13) - To type-check or not(44:05) - Investing time in commodity technologies Aaron Patterson, or Tenderlove as he is known on the internet, is a Senior Staff Engineer at Shopify. His primary focus is on Ruby and has been writing and maintaining gems, speaking at conferences and spreading Ruby's gospel for over a decade. Keep up with Aaron by following him on Twitter at @tenderlove and visit his blog at https://tenderlovemaking.com/. Thomas Countz is a Senior Software Crafter at 8th Light where he works with a variety of ambitious teams on a variety of ambitious projects. A true curious nerd at heart, Thomas digs into everything from robotics and cider making to bouldering and Shakespeare’s comedies. To hear even more about Thomas, you can follow him on Twitter at @thomascountz and visit his blog at https://thomascountz.com. Jerome Goodrich is an adoring husband, new dog dad, and all-around curious explorer. Through his work as a Principal Software Crafter at 8th Light, Jerome leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website: https://jeromegoodrich.com. 8th Light partners with businesses and community groups to craft software that unlocks human potential and makes the world a better place. We’re passionate about designing for people, inspiring through education, and empowering the future. With teams spread across the globe—including Chicago, London, Los Angeles, New York, Austin, and Madison—we’re always eager to hear about ambitious new projects. Learn more about our team and reach out at https://8thlight.com. If you'd like to receive new episodes as they're published, please subscribe to Collaborative Craft in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, a...

    49 min
  8. Into the Unknown Unknowns: Observability with Charity Majors

    14/10/2021

    Into the Unknown Unknowns: Observability with Charity Majors

    The speed of development and change in software engineering enables exponential growth and innovation. It can also give rise to ever-increasing complexity and the creation of critical, yet fragile, systems. Recently the idea of achieving observability has gained attention as an alternative approach to legacy tooling within complex distributed systems, where it’s simply not possible to monitor for every possible failure. Charity Majors is the cofounder and CTO of honeycomb.io. On this week’s episode, Charity discusses observability not only as a practical tool for creating performant and reliable production services but also as part of a fundamental shift in the practice of software development as a whole. (05:53) - Being an operations engineer(08:43) - Specialization, not separation(10:58) - Startups starting operations(14:24) - The most important thing an engineer can do(16:06) - Open telemetry(17:55) - The beginning of observability tooling(23:15) - Friction of midstream changes(25:43) - The value of metrics(29:17) - Coexisting with current solutions(33:21) - Draining workplace hierarchies Check out Charity’s The Engineer Manager Pendulum Charity is the cofounder and CTO of honeycomb.io, and author of O'Reilly books on observability and database reliability engineering. You can find Charity at charity.wtf, honeycomb.io/blog, and on twitter @mipsytipsy Thomas Countz is a Senior Software Crafter at 8th Light where he works with a variety of ambitious teams on a variety of ambitious projects. A true curious nerd at heart, Thomas digs into everything from robotics and cider making to bouldering and Shakespeare’s comedies. To hear even more about Thomas, you can follow him on Twitter at @thomascountz and visit his blog at https://thomascountz.com. Jerome Goodrich is an adoring husband, new dog dad, and all-around curious explorer. Through his work as a Principal Software Crafter at 8th Light, Jerome leads amazing software teams to design and develop thoughtful solutions to complex problems. He loves pairing strenuous hikes with deep conversations and is always trying to see things clearly and with an open heart. Jerome lives much of his life off of the internet, but he occasionally writes on his website: https://jeromegoodrich.com 8th Light partners with businesses and community groups to craft software that unlocks human potential and makes the world a better place. We’re passionate about designing for people, inspiring through education, and empowering the future. With teams spread across the globe—including Chicago, London, Los Angeles, New York, Austin, and Madison—we’re always eager to hear about ambitious new projects. Learn more about our team and reach out at https://8thlight.com If you'd like to receive new episodes as they're published, please subscribe to Collaborative Craft in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, a...

    40 min
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About

Collaborative Craft navigates the ins and outs of software design and development. Host Jerome Goodrich is joined by fellow software, design, and technology professionals to discuss their ambitious project work and gain an understanding of the ever-shifting craft of software. As a consultant at 8th Light, Jerome has visibility into how different organizations — big, small, young, and old — navigate their technological challenges and transformations. Throughout this series, he dives into detailed and personal stories to uncover hidden complexities and discover how systems really work, and how companies really get things done. Learn more about 8th Light at www.8thlight.com

Information

  • Creator
    8th Light
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2023
  • Episodes
    14
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2025 8th Light
  • Show Website
    Collaborative Craft