More or Less

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
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Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod

  1. VOR 5 STD.

    Vercel CEO: 70% of Our Traffic Is Now AI Agents "Nobody Was Prepared" | Anthropic, OpenClaw, OpenAI

    Vercel CEO Guillermo Rauch breaks down the explosive rise of AI agents and what it means for the future of software infrastructure. He joins the Morins to unpack why Anthropic cut off OpenClaw users, why the SaaS subscription model is breaking down, how agents are reshaping cloud infrastructure, and why a new wave of “supergeniuses” (from neurosurgeons to 17-year-olds) are building things no one thought possible. Plus: dreams.md, the future of personal agents, and why agents are becoming the new computer.Chapters:00:42 Intro: Guillermo Rauch, CEO and Founder of Vercel01:48 Vercel Explodes 5X Growth and AI Traffic Surge03:51 Why Anthropic Shut Down OpenClaw Users04:47 Coding Agents Are the Path to AGI07:57 70 Percent of Vercel Traffic Is Now AI09:50 SaaS Is Dead Pay Per Token Takes Over13:16 Anthropic vs OpenClaw Closed vs Open Agents14:47 The Hidden Risk of AI Data and Training16:38 Why Everyone Wants Their Own AI18:08 The Shift to Agent Native Infrastructure19:45 Vibe Coded Apps Are Going Viral21:42 The AI Wars Anthropic OpenAI Elon23:15 Dreams md Self Improving AI Agents25:44 Memory Theory of Mind and Agent Intelligence28:05 Your AI Should Travel With You30:00 Enterprise AI and Domain Expert Agents31:15 How Vercel Became an AI Native Company33:06 Hiring in the Age of AI Agents36:03 The Rise of Supergeniuses38:10 Inside Slows Creator AI Hackathon40:06 AI Agents Are the New Customers41:18 Moving Up the Stack Again42:05 What Happens in the Next 12 Months43:48 AI Will Break Cloud and SecurityWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/f43JCxhKLEgConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    47 Min.

  2. 3. APR.

    AI Agents Destroying Internet Security (Anthropic's Leak, ClawCon Tokyo, OpenAI's $852B Valuation)

    Sam Lessin accidentally emailed 40 of Silicon Valley's most important people using an AI bot — and that one mishap reveals everything broken about the AI security model right now. In this episode, Sam and Dave Morin (calling in from ClawCon Tokyo) argue that AI agents are quietly dismantling every security assumption the internet was built on: from open-source package trust chains to content moderation walls to the entire premise of software moats. Meanwhile, Jessica Lessin shares her own Claude Code disaster that proves even careful people are one 'approve' click away from chaos. The team also tears apart OpenAI's $852 billion valuation, debate whether 10 million software developers are about to become irrelevant, and explain why a professional skier in Alaska just built the app she'd been pitching for two years — in a single afternoon. Chapters: We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/Gv-VUTGVNT8Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    48 Min.

  3. 27. MÄRZ

    The New Startup Stack: One Founder + Agents | Henrik Werdelin (Audos) and Ben Broca (Polsia)

    Jess and Brit take the reins on this week's More or Less — and they're not exactly missing their husbands. They're joined by Henrik Werdelin (Audos), who's building a platform that takes solo founders from zero to funded company using AI agents, and Ben Broca (Polsia), a literal one-human, zero-employee founder who argues AGI is already here. What follows is a sharp, funny debate about whether solo "donkeycorns" are the future of entrepreneurship, where AI actually hits its limits, and why defensibility in an AI world might come down to the most analog thing of all — knowing yourself and the humans you serve. Chapters: 1:05 — Britt & Jess take over More or Less 3:15 — Meet Henrik Werdelin (Audos) & Ben Broca (Polsia) 5:00 — The Donkeycorn Era: Solo founders making millions with AI 8:15 — "AGI Is Here" — Ben's case for one founder, zero employees 10:30 — Jess vs. Ben: "My Claude can't remember" / "Skill issue" 17:00 — When AI suggested fecal transplant businesses (Henrik's wild early experiments) 19:00 — Relationship Capital: The real moat in an AI world 23:00 — Building an economy, not a tool — Ben's vision for Polsia 25:30 — Will AI democratize opportunity or just commoditize it? 32:00 — Bot Etiquette: When your AI emails psychics on your behalf 40:00 — The Sora Shutdown: "It's all just electricity" 42:30 — Is speed the only moat? Anthropic vs. OpenAI 46:30 — The Brain Gym: Why knowing yourself matters more than ever 52:00 — Wrap: SpaceX IPO, Aura IPO, and "Me, My Customer, and AI" We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/x5ybaEqOEsU Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    54 Min.

  4. 20. MÄRZ

    Nvidia's GTC, Apple Blocking Vibe-Coding Apps, Meta's Rogue AI Agent

    It’s going to be a dense episode on OpenClaw—and another classic example of how skeptical Sam is about its future, battling against Dave. The episode starts with Dave’s announcement: The OpenClaw Foundation is now a chartered Delaware nonprofit. Then: GTC. Jessica hits the floor, takes seven selfies, and watches Jensen go for three hours with no notes. Dave explains why Nvidia gave OpenClaw 30 minutes of keynote time: NemoClaw, OpenShell, enterprise guardrails, local models, on-prem everything. Jessica breaks down The Information’s story about a rogue AI agent tripping internal security at Meta—which becomes the perfect setup for a broader point: trust isn’t a feature; it’s the entire game. Then Apple. BitRig—built by the people who literally created SwiftUI—has been stuck in App Store review since November because Guideline 2.5.2 says apps can’t download and execute code that changes functionality. The security logic tracks. Apple’s selective enforcement history? Less so. The crew closes with the part nobody’s ready for: Morin’s 11-year-old just formed his first LLC for a vibe-coded iOS game, and a group of 12-year-olds at an AI school in Austin out-shipped every adult developer at ClawCon.Chapters:02:14 - NVIDIA GTC Preview & Episode Roadmap02:54 - The Rise of the "Master of Bots" Role04:39 - Bot Anxiety & the Luxury AI vs. Cheap AI Divide08:55 - NVIDIA GTC: Jensen as AI's Storyteller-in-Chief17:21 - Nemo Claw, OpenShell & NVIDIA's Big OpenClaw Moment23:02 - What Even Is OpenClaw? Sam Challenges Dave29:51 - Breaking News: Rogue AI Agent Triggers Meta Security Alert38:54 - OpenAI's Enterprise Pivot & the Anthropic Revenue Race43:00 - Apple vs. Vibe Coding Apps: The App Store Bottleneck51:34 - Kids, Claws & Cool Family Tech (Board.fun, Next Playground)We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/PYJawV55QcUConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    59 Min.

  5. 13. MÄRZ

    Anthropic’s Bet on Coding Is Working (OpenAI Shopping Pivot, A16Z’s Top 50 List, $1B Tennis Channel)

    It’s an AI-heavy episode with real stakes: Jessica digs into OpenAI’s evolving approach to shopping and why “closing the loop” on commerce could be the proving ground for consumer monetization. The group sparrs over charts: OpenAI vs. Anthropic annualized revenue, what “slope” investors actually care about, and whether Anthropic’s developer-first strategy (code, tokens, and high ARPU) is the smarter path than consumer mindshare.Sam argues that “intelligence” is heading toward a global, frictionless commodity market (bad for margins, great for usage) and introduces the idea of “dark pools” (proprietary access/data/relationships) as the only durable moat. Dave counters with the more optimistic take: AI is collapsing the line between “consumer” and “developer,” turning everyone into a builder, and launching a new creative medium (with examples spanning from software to film). Brit adds fuel with “nano-targeted” commerce and a tour through A16Z’s Top 50 GenAI web products list, highlighting both mainstream shifts and the internet’s… more ‘unexpected’ categories.Finally: a truly out-of-left-field deal pitch from Jess: should someone buy the Tennis Channel for ~$1B? Plus a rapid-fire pop culture close (Kelce’s return, Oscars bets, and what everyone’s watching) before Sam heads back to the sauna.Chapters:0:00 — Intro & Sam's Sauna Hat1:33 — First-Ever MOL Podcast Ad3:54 — ChatGPT's Shopping Pivot7:19 — The Chart: OpenAI vs Anthropic Revenue11:52 — The Slope: Linear or Super Linear?16:10 — Commerce Is Bad. Attention Is Good.19:04 — AI Is Turning Everyone Into a Builder20:15 — "$1B Raised, $900M spent on Inference"23:17 — AI Is Worse Than the Cable Business35:58 — Dark Pools: Death of the Open Marketplace40:45 — The P50 Problem: What Happens to Average People?42:38 — "Software Is Totally Commoditized"45:43 — Brit's Bot Corner: Anime Husband Chatbots 50:44 — Should You Buy the Tennis Channel for $1B?54:22 — Pop Culture CornerWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodOn demand reactions powered by AI: https://molchat.ai/ Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    59 Min.

  6. 6. MÄRZ

    Fire Sam Altman, The End of Software Engineers, and Why AI Is All Narrative

    This week the squad breaks down the Anthropic vs OpenAI drama (Fire Sam Altman is trending again), debates whether Apple is quietly winning the AI race by spending $0 while everyone else burns $100 billion, and confronts the question no one in Silicon Valley wants to answer: why aren't 200,000 software engineers talking about losing their jobs? Sam's answer: "Because it would be to admit you're in the 200,000 getting fired, not the 200,000 getting paid more." Plus: is China winning the open source AI phenomenon, is a recession coming (Lux Capital thinks so), and how Sam believes “code is just content” despite having built six apps in a week while on conference calls, including an AI clone of the podcast using everyone's real voices. It’s your weekly dive of More or Less. Chapters: 1:30 — Fire Sam Altman Trending Again: Dario's Leaked Slack Memo 10:15 — Sam's Vibe Coding Week: 6 Apps Including AI Versions of the Hosts 17:00 — Why AI Content Tends to Zero 20:00 — Apple M5 Chip: The Local AI Inference Play 23:30 — Block Cuts 40% of Workforce 25:30 — Will 200,000 Bay Area Software Engineers Lose Their Jobs? 30:00 — "Code Wins Arguments — But Now Everyone Can Code" 34:30 — Josh Wolfe's (Lux Capital) Recession Warning Email 36:30 — The Triangle Trade: DC, Silicon Valley & Wall Street's Narrative Collusion 39:00 — Yemen/Houthi Strike & Defense Tech 41:00 — Is Open Source AI a Chinese Phenomenon? 46:00 — The Second Wave: Agents Are the Website of This Era 49:00 — David's Protein Ice Cream We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/UIdKqkNCymQ Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    52 Min.

  7. 27. FEB.

    Apple, OpenAI & Why Nobody Makes Money in AI | The SaaS Apocalypse

    Starting with a mini celebration: Dave defends his ski racing crown, before Sam declares software dead and capitalism broken. Even among GPs at Upfront Summit, the mood is uncertain: nobody knows whether to invest in software anymore, and many are quietly struggling to raise.The debate heats up over whether AI will democratize software creation or just accelerate capitalism's race to zero margins. Sam argues that when intelligence becomes abundant, it becomes worthless, making the entire AI industry, and by extension Silicon Valley, "pretty bad business." Dave counters that we're about to see a Cambrian explosion of software creators, finally giving billions of people agency over their digital lives.Plus: whether Stripe should buy PayPal during this opportunistic Trump-administration window, Gen Z panic-buying original iPods, Sam's shitposting-to-funding pipeline, and whether OnlyFans has the best KYC in fintechChapters:7:24 - Upfront Summit: Where Are All the LPs? 10:49 - Are VCs Still Investing in Software? 12:04 - Slow Ventures Going Contrarian: Investing While Others Freeze 13:27 - When Intelligence Goes to Zero: Why AI is Bad Business 15:53 - Polsia: $100K to $700K ARR in One Week (AI Agents Only) 19:39 - Capitalism's Black Hole: AI Makes Markets Too Efficient 25:00 - Creator Fund Thesis: Investing in Cults, Not Content 28:20 - Who Makes Money When Margins Hit Zero? 34:41 - Silicon Valley's Advantage is DEAD (The Magic Wizard Hat) 37:35 - Who Should Buy PayPal? (Stripe's One-Shot Window) 42:11 - Agentic Commerce: Do Payment Networks Even Matter? 45:18 - OpenAI Smart Speaker: Eddie Cue's Son Working on It 46:51 - Gen Z Buying Original iPods: The Analog Rebellion We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    48 Min.

  8. 20. FEB.

    OpenClaw vs Meta vs OpenAI: The Personal Agent Wars Heat Up

    In this episode of More or Less, we go from Sam's urgent care drama to the hottest debates in AI. Dave dives into his news about joining the OpenClaw Foundation board as the fastest-growing open source project in internet history faces a new chapter. While the OpenClaw founder is heading to OpenAI, Meta is launching competing agents, and the battle for personal AI is officially ON. How the "Internet of Putting iPads on Things" era returning, Anthropic vs Pentagon drama, whether AI intelligence will become worthless like cheap electricity, and why your 'normie' friends will be sending you their vibe-coded apps within 12 months. Chapters: 3:02 Sam's Ski Injury Saga 5:00 OpenClaw Founder Going To OpenAI & Dave's Foundation Role 8:07 OpenClaw vs. Manus (On-Device vs. Cloud) 11:02 Vibe Coding: Building an App a Day 12:03 Meta vs. OpenAI Rivalry 22:00 The Fundraising Market: Mega Rounds & Narrative Capitalism 27:04 The Big Debate: Bay Area Engineers in 3 Years 41:01 Anthropic vs. The Pentagon 45:01 Intelligence as a Commodity 53:50 Tennis with Madison Keys plug We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/3CewrGGMjRI Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    57 Min.
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Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod

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  • Erstellt von
    Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
  • Jahre aktiv
    2023 - 2026
  • Folgen
    145
  • Bewertung
    Anstößig
  • Copyright
    © Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
  • Sendungswebsite
    More or Less

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