Outcome Economy Podcast

Workpath

This is the Outcome Economy Podcast. The best strategies, business models and jobs today are all about outcomes, not about input or output, not about products or billable hours. The Outcome Economy Podcast hosts leaders that enable their organizations to focus on the ultimate value for the customer and on the outcomes for all stakeholders. We talk about their goals and how they work with their teams to achieve them.

  1. 16.12.2025

    SPECIAL EDITION: AI, Humanocracy and the Future of Work - With Michele Zanini

    What does it take to transform a tens-of-thousands-employee enterprise like Bayer? In this Outcome Economy episode, Michele Zanini explains why the status quo is indefensible, why agile and OKRs fail without systemic change, and how outcome-based organizations align strategy, resource allocation, and local autonomy. Recorded at the Peter Drucker Forum, the conversation dives into front-runner teams, capabilities, perseverance in downturns, and why boards underestimate the risk of doing nothing.

    30 Min.

  2. 30.10.2024

    Driving transformation in corporate IT and product organizations - with Bruno Bonando from REWE Digital

    Bruno Bonando is Director of Customer Relations and Sales at REWE Digital, the digital organization of REWE Group - one of Europe’s largest retail and tourism enterprises, with brands like REWE, Penny, Toom, Lekkerland, and ITS Travel. Bruno, former Vice President of Technology at MediaMarkt Saturn and Head of Engineering at Cazoo, originally comes from Brazil, but has been working in Europe for many years. In this episode of the Outcome Economy Podcast Bruno and Johannes speak about Digital Transformation in the retail industry (2:30) The Role of OKRs in Product Org Transformations and new ways of working (12:35) Challenges in adopting OKRs (15:00) Embedding direction and metrics into daily routines (17:20) Proving business impact as IT or Digital Organization (19:50) Communication between business and tech and across silos (24:18) Recommendations and learning resources (31:00) Bruno’s reading and podcast recommendations Measure What Matters https://amzn.eu/d/a87oxXJ  Leaders Eat Last https://amzn.eu/d/0SfxaqH The Tim Ferriss Show https://open.spotify.com/show/5qSUyCrk9KR69lEiXbjwXM Masters of Scale https://open.spotify.com/show/1bJRgaFZHuzifad4IAApFR The Deal Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/6Fer4LFL94q6eMulaqQORH How to connect with Bruno Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brunobonando/

    35 Min.

  3. 26.08.2024

    Resilience strategies in turbulent times - how the Circular Economy can drive efficiency and new business growth

    "Business model transformation requires new operating models, metrics and ways of working.” After spending several years at McKinsey, this episode’s guest Dr. Manuel Braun joined Systemiq, a think tank and consultancy for the circular economy and for sustainable business transformation. Manuel is a lecturer at the Technical University of Munich (TUM) and an author who just published his book „The Circular Business Revolution“ in July 2024. In this episode of the Outcome Economy Podcast Manuel and Johannes speak about: The principles of circular business models and a more circular economy (2:35) Data from the “Global Resources Outlook” on the development of world wide resource consumption and its influence on climate change (04:20) “Nature risk is business risk”: Why circularity is relevant for business and how this relevance has grown over the last 7 years (6:30) Business model transformation and the 5 different business model archetypes building on circularity, combining business cases with an environmental case (9:18) How circularity is applicable to most industries, explained on the examples of Hilti and several other companies (16:55) How circular business models and strategies require a shift in ways of working and operating models (22:00) Three layers of implementation to make a circular business model transformation work and circularity strategies succeed (23:00) Strategic top level KPIs that need to shift in order to master the transformation, with an example of Philips (26:00) The relevance of partnerships and ecosystem oriented strategies for this transformation (30:55) What else you can learn from Manuel’s book and the mission he pursues with it (33:50) Mentioned sources and recommendations The Global Resources Outlook: https://www.resourcepanel.org/reports/global-resources-outlook-2024 Manuel’s book „The Circular Business Revolution“: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Julia-Binder/dp/1292458968 The “XaaS: Everything as a Service” Paper: https://www.systemiq.earth/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/XaaS-MainReport.pdf Hilti’s Fleet Management Strategy - HBS Case Study: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=52550 How to connect with Manuel Linkedin: https://de.linkedin.com/in/manuelbraun2016 Mail: manuel.braun@systemiq.earth

    39 Min.

  4. 23.07.2024

    Systemtheorie im Unternehmen: Was ist eigentlich Strategie - und warum scheitert sie so oft in der Umsetzung?

    Stefan Kühl ist Soziologe, Historiker und Professor für Organisationssoziologie an der Universität Bielefeld. Er betreibt Forschung, unter anderem zu dezentralisierten Organisationsformen, sowie Steuerung und Strategie und er ist Autor zahlreicher Bestseller wie ,,Sisyphus im Management" und wissenschaftlicher Papiere wie „Strategy is Structure“. Immer wieder tritt Stefan auch auch in den Medien auf, so wurde er zum Beispiel im Handelsblatt zitiert: „In ein, zwei Jahren wird kaum noch jemand über Purpose sprechen“. Neben alledem arbeitet Stefan Kühl aber auch aktiv als Berater mit Organisationen zusammen, wo er nach wie vor mehr als ein Drittel seiner Zeit investiert. Stefan steht für einen systemischen, wissenschaftlichen Blick auf Organisation und Management, setzt diese Perspektive und die damit verbundenen Werkzeuge aber eben auch intensiv in der Praxis ein. Im Outcome Economy Podcast sprachen Stefan und Johannes über: Was den systemischen Blick auf Organisation ausmacht (10:10) Führung vs. Management (24:45) Strategie und Ziele: Was ist eigentlich Strategie? Wie verteilen Ziele die Beweislast in Unternehmen? (28:30) Führung und Steuerung mit Zielen, sowie die damit einhergehenden Herausforderungen (34:38) Ziele vs. Hypothesen und warum OKRs vielleicht besser OHKRI genannt werden sollten (55:40) Weshalb die besten Führungskräfte auch „Instinkt-Soziologen“ sind (01:02:50) Erwähnte Personen und Quellen in der Folge Herbert A. Simon (verantwortlich für das Konzept der organisatorischen Entscheidungsfindung, wie wir es heute kennen) James G. March (entwickelte Grundlagen der Organisationstheorie und eine „Verhaltenstheorie des Unternehmens“) George T. Dorain („Erfinder“ der SMART Ziele) Stefans Lese- und Hör-Empfehlungen: "Strategy Safari" von Henry Mintzberg "Revision is History" von Malcom Gladwell "Der ganz formale Wahnsinn" von Stefan Kühl "Organisationen: eine sehr kurze Einführung" von Stefan Kühl ⁠Stefan's LinkedIn Profil⁠Stefan's Profil von der Universität Bielefeld⁠ Johannes' LinkedIn Profil

    1 Std. 23 Min.

  5. 17.07.2024

    The impact of GenAI on corporate strategies in 2024 - insights from the insurance industry and beyond

    Join Johannes in a captivating conversation with Christopher Freese, a senior partner at BCG, on AI's impact on corporate strategy and the insurance industry in 2024. They discuss corporate AI goals, day-to-day AI use, differences in AI adoption between the US and Europe, and investment pitfalls. The episode also explores AI's role in insurance operations like underwriting and claims, future industry shifts, and the importance of outcome-focused customer experiences. Guest: Christopher Freese, Senior Partner and Managing Director at BCG. Background reading and resources: Christopher's LinkedIn Profile: ⁠Christopher Freese on LinkedIn⁠ Expert Profile at BCG: ⁠Christopher Freese at BCG⁠ Book Recommendations: ⁠“Organizations and Management in Cross-Cultural Context”⁠ ⁠“Die Zeit der Verluste” by Daniel Schreiber⁠ Webinar: ⁠“The Role of AI in Strategy and Execution” with Workpath Co-founders Pascal and Johannes

    59 Min.
  6. Inside Outcomes: How to predict the success of your strategy - and how to optimize strategy execution with the right metrics

    23.02.2024

    Inside Outcomes: How to predict the success of your strategy - and how to optimize strategy execution with the right metrics

    Inside Outcomes is the hands-on format for the strategy execution community. Learn from practitioners that bring the Outcome Economy to live in their organizations.

    58 Min.
  7. S5E10: OKRs, Outcome Management and Neurosocial Leadership - with Sebastian Morgner from MLI

    06.07.2023

    S5E10: OKRs, Outcome Management and Neurosocial Leadership - with Sebastian Morgner from MLI

    "So is it a culture where conflicts are avoided or where hierarchy solves conflicts? Because, hierarchy is always right and other people have to accept that? Or is it a culture where conflicts are seen as a creative source, as a source of creativity, of discussion, different viewpoints and people like to have dialogues about the best possible perspective? All that together, often unseen, is what social dynamics are about. Modern leadership has to understand and know about the social dynamics and all this unconscious bias in groups if you really want to become successful." - Sebastian Morgner, MLI. With today’s guest Sebastian Morgner we talk about neurosocial leadership, giving insights into what neurosocial leadership actually is and why it is important - especially right now in this VUCA (volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous) environment. He also shares how leaders should approach this topic by taking into consideration the different personalities, communication styles and experience of each team member. We also dicuss how social dynamics connect to outcome-based thinking and OKRs. According to Sebastian, having a tangible and inspiring vision in a company with clear goals and responsibilities is one part of successful strategy implementation. The other part, however, is taking the time and space to actually reflect and discuss whether the team is on the right way, what the obstacles are and what they have learned in the past weeks or months. This is only possible if there’s psychological safety in the team, where responsibilities are clearly distributed and where the management team is open for feedback. Lastly, we touch on how enterprise leaders can use social dynamics to influence the shift of a company culture toward a more outcome-based thinking. The retrospective in the OKR process is mentioned to be a very valuable tool for leaders to achieve this but leaders also need to make sure that the politics and reporting lines in the organization don’t block cross-functional goals. Sebastian Morgner is Managing Director of the MLI Leadership Institute in Munich. He advises leadership teams of global companies on digital transformation, coaches executives and accompanies them in strategy implementation in Leadership Sprints based on OKR logic. Sebastian is the author of the book "Expedition Future - how you can use chance to master uncertainty and complexity". He was a pioneer in digitalization and has built seven different business units during his career. He is a certified mental coach and keynote speaker (GSA). Where to find Sebastian: LinkedIn MLI Where to find Johannes: LinkedIn Resources mentioned on the show: Books: Expedition Zukunft -  Wie wir den zufall nutzen können, um Ungewissheit und Komplexität zu meistern Antifragile Things that gain from disorder Thinking, fast and slow Podcast: New Leadership Podcast Outcome Economy Summit Workshop: How neuro-social leadership helps to implement OKRs effectively This Podcast is a product by Workpath.

    48 Min.
  8. S5E9: OKRs and Outcomes: Tools for de-risking uncertainty - with Jeff Gothelf

    22.06.2023

    S5E9: OKRs and Outcomes: Tools for de-risking uncertainty - with Jeff Gothelf

    OKRs are a simple concept but incredibly powerful because what it does is, it starts to move an organization towards better agility, collaboration, more customer centricity, more humility…creating the kind of culture and ways of working that tend to be more successful today. - Jeff Gothelf In today’s episode “OKRs and Outcomes: Tools for de-risking uncertainty” we talk with Jeff Gothelf about why are OKRs such a fundamental tool for all organizations facing uncertainty, how do you start “doing OKRs’ in huge enterprise to ensure the required culture change and finally, why OKRs are such a simple but challenging tool to implement successfully.  Finally, we’re talking about Jeff’s upcoming book - which is an OKR employee handbook, a practical guide for everyone in an organization no matter the department they are in. Jeff Gothelf helps organizations build better products and executives build the cultures that build better products. He is the co-author of the award-winning book Lean UX and the Harvard Business Review Press book Sense & Respond as well as the self-published Lean vs Agile vs Design Thinking and Forever Employable. Where to find Jeff: Website Join Jeff’s new book’s waiting list: https://okr-book.com/ Where to find Johannes: LinkedIn Resources mentioned on the show: Books: Teresa Torres - Continuous Discovery Habits Barry O’reilly -  Unlearn Joshua Seiden -  Outcome vs Output: Why Customer Behavior is the Key Metric for Business Success This Podcast is a product by Workpath.

    38 Min.
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This is the Outcome Economy Podcast. The best strategies, business models and jobs today are all about outcomes, not about input or output, not about products or billable hours. The Outcome Economy Podcast hosts leaders that enable their organizations to focus on the ultimate value for the customer and on the outcomes for all stakeholders. We talk about their goals and how they work with their teams to achieve them.

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    Outcome Economy Podcast