Malcolm and Simone Collins go deep into the newly released Epstein files and discover something uncomfortable: Epstein was obsessed with many of the same ideas they are — gene editing, artificial wombs, human genetic enhancement, AI, fertility maximization, alternate governance, and “playing to win” civilizationally. So why do they sound so similar on paper… yet feel morally opposite? In this episode the Collinses explain the real divide in elite power networks (it’s not left vs. right), why Epstein could never break into the Thiel/Musk/Schmidt circles, the two actual factions fighting for the future (space cowboys vs. hidden thrones), and why Epstein’s version of the game ended in baby-killing and microtransaction brainwashing while theirs is about open, transparent, high-fertility, high-agency humanity. Episode Transcript Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today is an episode. I have been so jonesing to do, so excited to do because as the Epstein files have continued to be comb through by people, a lot of people, what they are, noting is Epstein in terms of the world views he had in terms of some of the people who he rubbed shoulders with is very similar from an outside perspective, from a fuzzy, like a grease on the limbs perspective to us, Simone Collins: no Malcolm Collins: pedal. So just as a few examples here, so like if it, because Tim Poole had an episode where he did a very good job going over like the dark transhumanism of Epstein. And you know, they’re pointing out, obviously the one that a lot of people know about is the farm where he was gonna have impregnate 21 and they were just gonna have lots of his kids. Simone Collins: It wasn’t a farm, it was a large ranch compound in New Mexico. Malcolm Collins: Well it [00:01:00] sounds a lot like a human farm to me, Simone. Yeah, you can, you can call it what you want. You Simone Collins: didn’t know how to make things sound so charming, Malcolm Collins: That he was working on and funding. Human journaling, gene editing research editing human genetics. He was looking at how to upload human sentient to machines so that he could live longer. He was interested in alternate forms of governance structure. Simone Collins: Oh no, Malcolm Collins: he was interested in people who, who’ve known it. It broke from the guardian that we had we’re working on a plan to create a charter city essentially a independent region. Simone Collins: He did not really, Malcolm Collins: no. That we were going to not Oh, that we Simone Collins: were, yeah. We, Malcolm Collins: we were going to, we were, yes. But he was also working on similar ideas. Simone Collins: Oh. Malcolm Collins: That and with some people who even we’ve talked to that he was looking at. AI safety related stuff. My God. And how a, oh, he was [00:02:00] even working on ai sex bots. Which, you know, we’ve created with R Fab ai. So we look at these various projects. And PE people see this, right? And they go, you guys, you guys seem to work on a lot of the same stuff, like, what’s going on here? And before I go into the specifics, because I really wanna go into the, the specifics of what he actually said, not what people are saying about what he said, because I think a lot of the Epstein stuff goes through a bit of a game of telephone and you just get a vague idea of what was scandalous. Instead of you’re like, oh, this is what he was saying to Nick Bostrom, he knew Nick Bostrom. You know, you know, you’re like, okay, okay, okay. This is more I can, I can see where this conversation went this way. Oh boy. But before we get into that stuff, I wanna get into the broader claims here because I think that what we’re actually looking at is a lot of people. Who are blinded, by the way, [00:03:00] our society sort of functions in terms of the plebs as teams with it being the the right-leaning team and the left-leaning team, right? Mm-hmm. Like this is the two big teams that the pledge see, and what the plebs are unaware of, broadly speaking, is that that is not. The way things are actually divided in elite society. Those are not the actual two teams that are out there. Each team basically has their players and their players are distributed throughout each of the various ecosystems. Hmm. You know, this is why at a lot of people, I’ve always said, you know, Steve Bannon, he’s not on our side guys. He’s not on our side of the guys. And people at the beginning they were like, oh, you’re really undercounting Steve Bannon. It turns out he’s besties was Jeffey. Right. Like, and he worked really hard and spent a lot of money and time. I think there’s 22 hours of footage of him trying to create a [00:04:00] documentary to rehabilitate Epstein’s image after he was confirmed the underage, next trafficking Simone Collins: don’t do that. No. Malcolm Collins: Now with the point being is you look at these networks and you can see if you’re aware of the elite networks that like we are in Es, Epstein was almost sort of weirdly never able to successfully break into that side of the network. Mm-hmm. He was never really able to do anything with Peter Thiel. Never really able to do anything. Provable with Elon. He was never able to. By the way, fun, Epstein fact that’s come out recently is it looks like Donald Trump was actually one of the very first Epstein whistleblowers which has come out in some of the newer Epstein files, which people are being like, this is absolutely wild. And, and, and not only that, but remember how we keep saying it looks like Epstein, like genuinely hates Donald Trump and has been trying to ruin Donald Like that they were at point. Yeah, he said an for a Simone Collins: very Malcolm Collins: long time. Time. But for the vast majority of this [00:05:00] period, it has been Epstein. The reason why we know now it was because Epstein believed when the early arrest started happening and everything like that. That the, the process, the process that ended up with Epstein in jail and Unli began was Donald Trump going to authorities about him. Simone Collins: Really? So he was the, did, did Trump bringing things up actually ignite anything? Malcolm Collins: It appears to have been part of what got the ball rolling. ‘cause he was the first like super famous person to push on it. Simone Collins: Oh wow. Okay. Which I didn’t realize Malcolm Collins: he was, which is a wild timeline to be living in. No, I’m not saying that Trump didn’t do horrible sex stuff as well and the creepy comments he made about like the Miss Universe pageant and stuff like that. But the, but the point I’m making here. Broadly speaking is that there actually are elite networks, but the elite networks don’t operate the way that the average conspiracy theorist seems to [00:06:00] think that they operate. Hmm. In fact, the types of secret societies that you and I have, you know, provably been involved with Epstein was never invited to any of those. He never got into any of those. He was never able to infiltrate those. And the question is, is like, why? What’s going on here? Right? Like, that seems weird. He, did he Simone Collins: also never go to the bo? Well, I guess you wouldn’t be able to, Malcolm Collins: I don’t think, I do not think he ever got into the Bohemian grove. Actually, I’ll just double check this. Simone Collins: Curious. Malcolm Collins: No evidence at all. Yeah. He never got into the Bamian Grove. Now, you know, Epstein wanted to get into the Bohemian Grove Simone Collins: 100%. Malcolm Collins: You want that, know that he wanted to get into dialogue, you know, he want, which was this thing that Simone was managing director after a period you know, that he wanted to get into something like Renaissance Weekend again, an organization that he was never in you know, and Simone Collins: Clinton affiliated organization too, Malcolm Collins: you know, that he wanted to get into well, Schmid Futures programs where we managed like a secret society thing for them. But, you know, that he wanted to be [00:07:00] involved with what Schmidt Futures is doing. Eric schmidt’s org, right? Nothing. Right. So the question here is. And, and, and, and I’m, I’m explaining this to you guys, like the general public ‘cause you’re like, he seemed to have his fingers in everything. Yeah. But if you’re actually in the elite networks, what’s weirder is how much he didn’t have his fingers in. Yeah. It’s really that his fingers were in one side of the elite battle network, right? Mm-hmm. And, and this is gets really cool ‘cause we can take you guys into like a bit of the behind the scenes of what’s going on with actual elite power politics because we have a lot of background in that field. And and, and for people who are coming to this and are like, what background do you have? Quick thing. Simone used to be the managing director of Dialogue, which is the Secret Society set up by Peter Teel. We also go to Heretic Con, which is another secret society that has been set up by him. The New York Times leaked that we know. I can’t say anything more than that. Elon there has been, we were working on a secret society for [00:08:00] Schmidt Futures that ended up being shut down. But this was, you know, Eric Schmidt’s circle. We also the Vahe Grove. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been I have a lot of connections to management of that, but I try to I, I don’t know like what I’m allowed to say in DI wise around that. And in terms of what, what’s the other big one? Oh, yes, the Illuminati. Now this isn’t real, but supposedly I am the oldest male of the Collins Bloodline of the Illuminati, which is what the Joe Rogan crash out came from. But like, even in terms of like lore I’m supposed to be in with secret societies, but like, that’s actually been a part of our job. Like our career is partially secret societies. That was our fam