Code 3 - The Firefighters Podcast Scott Orr

If you were among those fortunate enough to be in the audience at the opening of FDIC 2024, you heard something special.
I’d say it was a call to arms… a call to take revolutionary action.
Chief David Rhodes spoke for about a half-hour, laying out a case for change in the fire service.
His main argument: that the fire service has become too risk-averse. That the leaders of departments are so afraid of injuries—and of course, lawsuits—that they don’t want firefighters to take any risks on the fireground.
Or even in training.
He said that puts citizens in danger.
And he said that change needs to happen, from the bottom up. It sure won’t come from the top down.
Here to discuss that with me is David Rhodes.
Chief Rhodes had nearly four decades in the fire service when he retired from the Atlanta, Georgia Fire Department. He currently serves as the Editor in Chief of Fire Engineering magazine. He’s also the Educational Director for FDIC.

Fire departments around the U.S. are approaching a tipping point.
At the same time career departments are seeing a drop in applicants, they’re also losing existing firefighters.
This is a problem.
Once upon a time, not so long ago, it was tough to get a job in the fire department.
But now, fewer people line up for those spots.
Maybe it’s generational, maybe it’s just a natural cycle and it’ll change.
Or maybe it’s something more.
Here to discuss that with me is Dr. Reggie Freeman.
He’s the chief risk officer for the HAI Group, based in Cheshire, Connecticut. He’s served as the fire chief of three departments: Oakland, California, Hartfort, Connecticut and Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. He’s also a member of the board of directors of the NFPA.

There’s a constant battle between firefighters who believe that safety on the fireground precludes aggressive tactics.
The opposite is also true.
What’s the compromise between the two?
It seems as if firefighters don’t believe that it’s possible to be both aggressive and safe.
It is, of course, and my guest today is here to offer some suggestions about how you can implement both.
He’s no wimp—he puts Mrs. Smith first, his crew second, and his own personal safety third.
Ryan Scellick is a Captain at the City of Pasco Fire Department, in Washington State. He is the co-owner of Young Officers on Fire which puts on annual conferences, trainings, and manages a national non-profit mentorship group.

What’s potentially harder to locate victims in than a hoarder house?
A stuffed-full self-storage locker.
But that’s exactly what can happen. And even if the victim’s not inside at the time of the fire, their activities may have caused it.
Those storage spaces are frequently climate-controlled, and they’re cheap…maybe $100 a month for a small one.
That makes them seem like a great place to live for someone who can’t afford to rent an apartment.
They aren’t, of course, and occupants who choose to try living in one can become the victim of a fire they can’t escape.
This week, my guest tells us about his experiences with homeless people who tried to make a storage unit home…and regretted it.
Tim Thompson is chief of the Georgetown, Kentucky Fire Department. He’s worked his way up over 19 years of service from firefighter to the boss. He’s also a member of the Kentucky Association of Fire Chiefs.

Are you ready for this?
There’s a whole class of hazardous chemicals that can damage your hearing, and they’re by-products of your average structure fire.
Yes, that’s right: When you burn home furnishings, you don’t just get carcinogens. You get “ototoxic” chemicals.
Now, the PPE you wear routinely for firefighting protects against this.
But—just like the stuff in smoke that causes cancer—ototoxic chemicals are a threat when you least expect them: during overhaul and even standing outside a burning structure.
And when you combine exposure to ototoxins with screaming sirens and fireground noise, well, it’s no surprise that firefighters are often retiring with substantial hearing loss.
Here to tell you what you need to know is Brian Daboul. He’s chief of the Mine Hill Fire Department in New Jersey. That’s a volunteer department, and Brian’s paid job is in occupational safety strategy and program development. He is also the owner of BGD Safety and Compliance, LLC, which serves industry and fire departments.

A recent study done at North Carolina State University took a look at PFAS chemicals used in turnout gear and came to some interesting conclusions.
PFS layers are what give current turnout coats and pants their oil and water repellency.
They're also a known carcinogen, so donning PPE made with PFAS is dangerous even before you step onto your engine or truck.
Unfortunately, when the study looked at alternatives, it found that all oil repellents can also repel water, but all water repellents don’t necessarily repel oil.
My guest on this show is Bryan Ormond, an assistant professor of textile engineering, chemistry and science at NC State. He also wrote up the results of the study.