Complicating The Narrative

Salma Abdalla
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In this podcast, hosted by Dr. Salma Abdalla—Assistant Professor and Director of the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis—we provide rigorous, evidence-based analysis of complex population health challenges. In a time of social, economic, and political upheaval—marked by eroding public trust, polarized narratives, and growing uncertainty—this podcast aims to challenge oversimplified narratives about the forces that shape the health of populations. Salma engages guests from across disciplines in rigorous, evidence-based conversations that challenge conventional wisdom. The conversations sometimes pose uncomfortable questions, seek nuanced perspectives, and question not just what we think, but how we arrive at our conclusions in public health. We explore the inherent complexities, real-world tradeoffs, and unintended consequences of public health interventions. Our goal is to empower listeners with nuanced understanding, helping them navigate these multifaceted issues in an informed and balanced way. The podcast is supported by the Washington University School of Public Health — https://schoolofpublichealth.washu.edu — and the Frick Initiative. Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/ Contact us at: s.abdalla@wustl.edu

  1. 3 FEB

    How much evidence is enough? Australia's digital protections with Dr. Kathryn Backholer

    How does research actually shape policy and when is evidence "good enough" to act on?  In this episode, Salma Abdalla is joined by Dr Kathryn Backholer, Professor of Public Health Policy and co-director of the Global Centre for Preventive Health and Nutrition (GLOBE) at Deakin University in Australia. Kathryn’s work focuses on building evidence that decision-makers can use, starting with policy problems that need solving and working backward to generate the right kind of data.  The conversation explores what it takes for research to move from journals into real policy action. Drawing on Kathryn’s work monitoring how gambling, alcohol, and junk food companies target young people online, they examine the tension between rigor and timeliness, the role of well-timed pilot studies, and why waiting for “perfect” evidence can sometimes mean missing critical policy windows.  The episode is anchored in a live policy moment: Australia’s recent decision to delay social media access for people under 16. Kathryn discusses how evidence informed this world-first policy, what it can — and cannot — address, and how her team is now evaluating its effectiveness and unintended consequences.  This episode is a candid look at the research-to-policy pipeline, the trade-offs involved in population-level decision-making, and what public health researchers can learn about designing work that is both rigorous and consequential.     Useful resources:   Livingstone H. Australia has banned social media for kids under 16. How does it work? BBC News. January 22, 2026. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyp9d3ddqyo Backholer K, Pathirana NL. #DigitalYouth. Deakin University; 2024. https://iht.deakin.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/sites/153/2024/06/Digital-Youth-brief-Final-2.pdf    Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    46 min

  2. 20 ENE

    Introducing Purple Public Health Project with Dean Sandro Galea

    Does public health belong to people with a specific perspective, or is it—as the term implies—for the public at large?  Today’s episode is different. Dean Sandro Galea, Dean and Distinguished Professor at WashU School of Public Health, returns to the podcast to discuss the Purple Public Health Project (PPHP), a new initiative he is launching with Salma. The PPHP aims to start a conversation about how public health thinks, acts, and communicates so we can reach people of all stripes, ideologies, and perspectives. Using concrete examples, they discuss whether public health should be grounded in science or values, or both. They also explore what each one of them thinks success would look like.   Join Salma and Dean Galea as they commit to this process of thinking rigorously in public about public health and contribute to shifting the thinking of the field.  Useful resources:   Abdalla S, Galea S. Introducing the Purple Public Health Project. Complicating the Narrative. January 24, 2026. https://salmaabdalla.substack.com/p/introducing-the-purple-public-health Healthier Futures Lab. www.healthierfutureslab.org  Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    31 min

  3. 6 ENE

    The field formerly known as global health with Dr. Seye Abimbola

    In global health, evidence, authority, and distance are often deeply entangled.  Dr. Seye Abimbola is Professor of Health Systems at the School of Public Health, University of Sydney. He is a leading voice in debates on decolonizing global health, with scholarship focused on health systems governance and epistemic injustice. He is also the founding editor-in-chief of BMJ Global Health and the author of The Foreign Gaze (2024).  In this episode, Seye joins Salma to discuss his collection of essays interrogating the epistemological foundations of the field currently known as global health—and to reflect on what it might mean to reshape that field. Together, they examine who gets to define global health problems and solutions, noting how the field is often shaped by distant, powerful actors rather than those closest to the contexts in which interventions are meant to work.  They also explore how knowledge is generated and valued in global health, questioning the routine elevation of randomized controlled trials as the gold standard for complex social interventions, unpacking why author affiliations can obscure deeper issues of “gaze” versus “pose,” and discussing how local practices are frequently overlooked or rendered illegible as evidence. Throughout the episode, Seye and Salma invite listeners to reflect on positionality, take complexity seriously, and imagine what the “field formerly known as global health” could become.    Useful resources:   Abimbola S. The Foreign Gaze: Essays on Global Health. IRD éditions; 2024.  Abimbola, S. (2011). Seye Abimbola: David Cameron, homosexuality, and HIV/AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa. The BMJ Opinion. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2011/12/08/seye-abimbola-david-cameron-homosexuality-and-hivaids-in-sub-saharan-africa/  Abimbola, S. (2019). The foreign gaze: Authorship in academic global health. BMJ Global Health, 4(5), e002068. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjgh-2019-002068     Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editor: Catalina Melendez Contreras  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    1 h y 15 min

  4. 23/12/2025

    A One Health approach to antimicrobial resistance with Dr. Sabiha Essack

    Will superbugs take over the world, as increasing media articles suggest?   Dr. Sabiha Essack is Professor in Pharmaceutical Sciences at the University of KwaZulu-Natal (UKZN), where she established the Antimicrobial Research Unit, and the South African Research Chair in Antibiotic Resistance and One Health. Dr. Essack’s research focuses on evidence-informed strategies to mitigate antibiotic resistance through prevention and surveillance strategy using a One Health approach, which accounts for the health of humans, animals, plants and the environment. In this episode, Sabiha joins Salma to discuss antimicrobial resistance (AMR) and its unequal impact on health. While AMR is driven by indiscriminate use and misuse of antimicrobials globally, low- and middle-income countries—with weak health and regulatory systems, limited access to diagnostic tools and alternative solutions, and vulnerable populations—bear most of the burden. Dr. Essack highlights the importance of equitable access to antibiotics, diagnostics, and vaccines, as well as the critical role of governance, financing, stewardship, and environmental controls. They also analyze current AMR communication approaches and question whether fear-based messages are effective and appropriate. Considering the global and polycentric scope of this issue, with no single right answer, this episode underscores the need for innovative, equitable alternatives to address the growing AMR challenge.  Useful resources:   Altevogt BM, Taylor P, Akwar HT, et al. A One Health framework for global and local stewardship across the antimicrobial lifecycle. Commun Med. 2025;5(1):414. doi:10.1038/s43856-025-01090-4  Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    33 min

  5. 09/12/2025

    Prosecuting gender-based crimes through a public health lens with Kim Thuy Seelinger

    When tribunals like the International Criminal Court prosecutes gender-based violence in conflict, what evidence do they need? And who gathers it? Kim Thuy Seelinger is a Professor of Practice at Washington University School of Public Health and former senior coordinator for Gender-Based Crimes at the International Criminal Court in the Hague until the Spring of 2025. For over two decades, she's worked at the intersection of international criminal law and public health. In this episode, Kim and Salma explore how gender-based violence manifests in conflict—not just sexual violence, but forced starvation, attacks on healthcare, reproductive coercion, and denial of education. They examine how international law distinguishes between war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide, and why proving these crimes remains so difficult, especially when prosecuting high-level perpetrators. The conversation tackles a fundamental question: How can public health methods strengthen international justice? Kim explains how epidemiological data, trauma-informed approaches, and understanding of health systems can help document crimes at scale, establish patterns of violence, and ensure reparations address survivors' long-term needs. But she's also honest about the tensions—between prevention and punishment, between individual accountability and systemic change, and between what the law promises and what survivors actually experience. This is a conversation about breaking down silos between fields that urgently need each other and confronting the gap between justice on paper and justice in practice.   Useful resources: Seelinger KT. Sexual Violence and Armed Conflict- Theories, myths, and holistic response. Presented at: Public Health Speaker Series; February 25, 2022. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4B7s2pEPMQ Seelinger KT. Substance, Systems, Survivors: The essential synergy of public health and international justice. Presented at: Talking Public Health seminar series; April 25, 2025. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BU1iSV68xU Center for Human Rights, Gender & Migration, Mukwege Foundation. Understanding Conflict-Related Sexual Violence in Ethiopia; 2022. https://www.mukwegefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/ETH_CRSV-in-ETH-Report_221012_FINAL.pdf Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    1 h y 1 min

  6. 25/11/2025

    When 'shelter in place' means nothing: Rethinking global health with Sabina Faiz Rashid

    What is global health—and who gets to define it?  For decades, the field has claimed universality while being shaped largely by specific institutions, priorities, and assumptions. But what happens when we center the places where most global health “problems” are identified? What does it mean to tell someone living in a Dhaka slum to shelter in place during a pandemic?  In this episode, Salma is joined by Dr. Sabina Faiz Rashid, Professor and Mushtaque Chowdhury Chair in Health and Poverty at the BRAC James P. Grant School of Public Health in Bangladesh; Director of the Center of Excellence for Gender, Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights; and Honorary Professor at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine. As a medical anthropologist whose career has been rooted in the alleys, kitchens, and courtyards of Dhaka’s urban slums, Dr. Rashid has spent decades challenging how we think about health, poverty, gender—and whose knowledge counts.  Together, they examine what global health often misses: the over-reliance on disease-focused indicators, the tendency to blame individuals for choices that are shaped by circumstance, and the habit of designing interventions far from the communities they attempt to serve. Drawing on vivid examples from Dr. Rashid’s ethnographic work, they explore how a mother’s health depends not only on symptoms or clinical markers, but on whether water runs for 20 minutes today, whether her husband finds work, and whether she has more than one egg to feed her children.  The conversation moves from methodology to power. Salma and Sabina discuss why qualitative and quantitative approaches both matter—and why neither is meaningful without genuine community partnership. They also consider the limitations of current “decolonization” conversations, suggesting that simple binaries obscure the complex power dynamics that exist both between and within countries.  This episode is an invitation to rethink global health from the ground up—its assumptions, its methods, its politics, and its future. It’s a conversation for anyone who believes public health must reflect the lived realities of the people it aims to serve.    Useful resources:   - "Sabina F Rashid, PhD." BRAC University, www.bracu.ac.bd/about/people/sabina-f-rashid-phd. Accessed 24 Nov. 2025.  - Rashid SF. Poverty, Gender and Health in the Slums of Bangladesh: Children of Crows. Routledge; 2024.    Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    1 h y 4 min

  7. 11/11/2025

    Health as a human right with Benjamin Mason Meier

    What do we mean when we say health is a human right? Dr. Benjamin Mason Meier is a Professor of Global Health Policy at the University of North Carolina (UNC) at Chapel Hill who has focused his research on the development, evolution, and application of human rights-based approaches to health.   In this episode, Dr. Meier joins Salma to explore the foundations of health as a human right—from its post-World War II origins to its development in international law. They discuss the obligations this framing creates for governments and international organizations, how rights must translate into tangible policies that improve health outcomes, and the tensions between advocacy and accountability. They also address the politics related to global health governance and human rights and consider what a human rights approach to health might look like in a future shaped by AI, climate change, and increased polarization.  Join this episode to learn about the difference between health as a human right as a slogan and health as a human right as a legal obligation—and why that distinction matters for global health's future.  Useful resources:   Forman L, De Mesquita JB, Filho LB, Meier BM, Sirleaf M. How Did Human Rights Fare in Amendments to the International Health Regulations? J Law Med Ethics. 2024;52(4):907-921. doi:10.1017/jme.2024.172  Gostin LO, Meier BM. Foundations of Global Health & Human Rights. Oxford University Press; 2020.  Gostin LO, Meier BM, eds. Global Health Law and Policy: Ensuring Justice for a Healthier World. Oxford University Press; 2023.  Robinson M. Human Rights in Global Health. Vol 1. (Mason Meier B, Gostin LO, eds.). Oxford University Press; 2018. doi:10.1093/oso/9780190672676.001.0001  Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    55 min

  8. 28/10/2025

    What our digital lives reveal about health with Yulin Hswen

    What can Reddit, Instagram, and other digital platforms tell us about population health? Dr. Yulin Hswen, associate professor at the University of California San Francisco and associate editor of JAMA and JAMA+ AI, is a computational epidemiologist using big data to understand population health in our increasingly digital world.  In this episode, Salma sits down with Dr. Hswen to explore what our digital environments can tell us about public health. From Reddit threads revealing untold health experiences to phone data mapping mobility patterns during disease outbreaks, Dr. Hswen challenges us to see social media platforms and online data not just as communication tools but as health environments that shape—and sometimes distort—population well-being.  Dr. Hswen shares how a personal healthcare experience first sparked her interest in digital data and reflects on what these traces can reveal about collective behavior, equity, and trust. The conversation dives into the ethics of digital and AI research—issues of privacy, representation, and accountability—and unpacks her proposal of “virtuosity” as the sixth V of big data. Dr. Hswen also discusses her work on ethical guidelines for AI using in public health and clinical medicine and how she approaches her editorial work at JAMA and JAMA+ AI and what excites her about the future of computational epidemiology and the use of AI in clinical and public health research.  Whether you're a researcher considering how to incorporate digital methods and AI into your work or simply curious about what your online activity reveals about population-level health patterns, this episode offers essential perspectives.    Useful resources:   Hswen Y, Naslund JA, Hurley M, Ragon B, Handley MA, Fang F, et al. AI-Y: An AI Checklist for Population Ethics Across the Global Context. Curr Epidemiol Rep. 2025;12(1):13. doi:10.1007/s40471-025-00362-w  Kosmyna N, Hauptmann E, Yuan YT, Situ J, Liao XH, Beresnitzky AV, et al. Your Brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of Cognitive Debt when Using an AI Assistant for Essay Writing Task. arXiv. Preprint posted online June 10, 2025. doi:https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2506.08872  Roose K. Do Not Disturb: How I Ditched My Phone and Unbroke My Brain. The New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/business/cell-phone-addiction.html. February 23, 2019.  Science & technology. Will AI make you stupid? The Economist. Published online July 16, 2025. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2025/07/16/will-ai-make-you-stupid  Wesson P, Hswen Y, Valdes G, Stojanovski K, Handley MA. Risks and Opportunities to Ensure Equity in the Application of Big Data Research in Public Health. Annu Rev Public Health. 2022;43(1):59-78. doi:10.1146/annurev-publhealth-051920-110928  JAMA+ AI Conversations. https://jamanetwork.com/channels/ai/pages/podcast    Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

    1 h y 26 min
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In this podcast, hosted by Dr. Salma Abdalla—Assistant Professor and Director of the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis—we provide rigorous, evidence-based analysis of complex population health challenges. In a time of social, economic, and political upheaval—marked by eroding public trust, polarized narratives, and growing uncertainty—this podcast aims to challenge oversimplified narratives about the forces that shape the health of populations. Salma engages guests from across disciplines in rigorous, evidence-based conversations that challenge conventional wisdom. The conversations sometimes pose uncomfortable questions, seek nuanced perspectives, and question not just what we think, but how we arrive at our conclusions in public health. We explore the inherent complexities, real-world tradeoffs, and unintended consequences of public health interventions. Our goal is to empower listeners with nuanced understanding, helping them navigate these multifaceted issues in an informed and balanced way. The podcast is supported by the Washington University School of Public Health — https://schoolofpublichealth.washu.edu — and the Frick Initiative. Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/ Contact us at: s.abdalla@wustl.edu

Información

  • Creador
    Salma Abdalla
  • Años de actividad
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodios
    15
  • Clasificación
    Apto
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2025 All rights reserved.
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    Complicating The Narrative

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