Fool Me Twice

The Rubber Chicken

Fool Me Twice is a sharp, funny, and revealing podcast where deception takes centre stage. Former detective and human lie detector Stephen van Aperen joins forces with comedian Brad Oakes to unpack the strange, serious, and sometimes hilarious ways lies shape our lives. Together, they explore real-life stories where truth and fiction blur, from notorious crimes to everyday fibs, blending sharp analysis with a sense of humour that cuts right through the B.S. Because let’s face it, lying touches everything. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. Episode 25: Lying in medicine with Dr Nicole Yap

    fa 1 dia

    Episode 25: Lying in medicine with Dr Nicole Yap

    In episode 25, Steve Van Aperen and Bradford Oakes explore lies, deception and the relationship between doctors and patients, joined by Dr Nicole Yap, an oncoplastic surgeon specialising in breast cancer surgery and reconstruction. The episode begins with the hosts swapping travel and airport stories, from Brad’s Tasmania gig near Devonport to Steve’s shock at Sydney Airport coffee prices. Their banter moves into observations about comedy audiences in Melbourne and Sydney, with Brad suggesting Sydney crowds can be more inclined to heckle while Melbourne audiences are more theatre-oriented. Dr Yap explains her specialised field. After training in plastic surgery and general surgery, she developed expertise in cancer treatment and reconstruction, particularly breast cancer surgery. She describes the possibility of helping patients through a cancer diagnosis while preserving, or even improving, how they feel about their appearance after surgery. Nicole shares an early career story of being unexpectedly left to perform a series of appendectomies after her consultant was delayed by a television appearance. Initially nervous and relying heavily on her notes and an experienced theatre nurse, she successfully completed several procedures, gaining confidence and becoming increasingly focused on the quality of the scars she left behind. The central conversation examines why patients conceal information, even when honesty is essential to their care. Dr Yap discusses patients who deny smoking despite clear evidence, and explains how nicotine can seriously compromise blood supply and surgical outcomes, particularly in reconstructive breast procedures. She also highlights the importance of asking patients specifically about weight-loss medications such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Mounjaro, which can create risks during anaesthesia if undisclosed. Brad shares his experience of being delayed for a procedure after revealing he had recently had COVID-19, despite mentioning it in assessments. The discussion turns to medical staff recognising deception, including “doctor shoppers” seeking drugs and prisoners pretending to have symptoms to leave custody. The episode also considers when doctors may soften the truth. Both Steve and Nicole describe delivering difficult news to grieving families with care and compassion, framing death or serious illness gently to reduce distress. They distinguish these “pro-social lies” from deception used for personal gain. Throughout, the conversation balances humour with insight into human behaviour, confidence and trust. Dr Yap’s stories reveal how doctors navigate skill and treating people at vulnerable moments. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Dr Nicole Yap: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    40 min
  2. Episode 24: Children Overboard Scandal and political lies

    28 de juny

    Episode 24: Children Overboard Scandal and political lies

    Episode 24 sees Brad Oakes and Steve Van Aperen examine political lying, deception and public trust, asking how governments can mislead without always stating an obvious falsehood. They distinguish between direct lies, evasive answers, omissions and “obfuscation”—making an issue deliberately unclear or confusing. The pair also consider whether some lies can be protective or justified, such as withholding sensitive police information or sparing grieving families unnecessary distress, while arguing that political deception is far more consequential when it shapes public attitudes and policy. The episode centres on the Children Overboard Scandal during the 2001 federal election. Senior government figures claimed that asylum seekers aboard a vessel had deliberately thrown children into the ocean in an attempt to force a Navy rescue. Steve explains that he later interviewed and polygraph-tested senior public servant Mike Scrafton, who had been asked to view naval videotapes for evidence of the alleged act. Scrafton said he saw no such evidence, and Steve says he passed the polygraph examination. Brad and Steve argue that images of children on a boat and children in the water were used to manufacture a powerful inference, despite there being no footage showing anyone throwing a child overboard. They describe the episode as an example of a politically useful story overtaking the underlying facts, reinforcing a tough-on-immigration message during an election campaign. They broaden the discussion by comparing the scandal with international and domestic examples: the intelligence claims used to justify the Iraq War and Australia’s Robodebt scheme. In each case, they focus less on party politics than on the way official certainty can survive unanswered questions, flawed assumptions and contrary evidence. Their concern is not merely that an initial claim may be wrong, but that institutions and ministers can keep repeating it after serious doubts emerge. The hosts discuss the human cost of this process, particularly where misleading claims influence attitudes toward asylum seekers, lead to war, or leave welfare recipients facing incorrect debt notices, financial pressure and psychological harm. Van Aperen concludes that lie detection has limits when key information remains secret or officials simply refuse to answer directly. Still, both hosts encourage listeners to pay attention to contradictions, unexplained changes of position and answers that avoid the question asked, rather than accepting confidence as proof of truth. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    44 min
  3. Episode 23: One lucky kidnapping with Rob Blezard

    21 de juny

    Episode 23: One lucky kidnapping with Rob Blezard

    Episode 23 of Fool Me Twice features hosts Bradford Oakes and Steve van Aperen in conversation with Rob Blezard, a Victoria Police detective with a 35-year career. Blezard outlines his path from joining the force in 1988 to working ten years in uniform at city, Kew, Heidelberg and Brunswick stations. Brunswick, he explains, was an especially formative posting: busy shifts, experienced sergeants and constant exposure to street crime, drugs and repeat offenders taught young officers how to investigate, observe and act decisively. He later moved into Crime Command, working in gaming and vice, organised crime, armed crime, homicide and specialist taskforces. His career included investigations into the Vicki Jacobs and John Furlan murders, along with an eight-year San Diego Task Force operation that resolved forty non-fatal shootings linked to Middle Eastern organised-crime networks. The discussion highlights the persistence of criminal groups and the importance of intelligence, detailed records and patient follow-up. The episode’s central story is an urgent kidnapping investigation. Police initially knew only that an intercepted caller had said, “We’ve got him. Where do you want us to take him?” They had no confirmed victim, location or complete list of offenders. A detective travelling to the incident room stopped for fuel after collecting a forgotten phone, noticed a suspicious car, and wrote down its registration. Unbeknown to him, the kidnapped victim was inside and trying to attract his attention. Investigators identified the suspected kidnapper through a repeatedly used false name, traced his phone to Frankston, and called dozens of local hotels. Surveillance found his motorbike outside one motel, while another hotel—beside Frankston Police Station—confirmed that five people had checked in under his name. The Special Operations Group entered the room and rescued the victim, who had been detained for six or seven hours, severely tortured, assaulted with a machete, and forced to play Russian roulette. The abduction stemmed from a failed gun deal. The victim had arranged a $10,000 firearm purchase, but the seller took back the weapon while retaining the cash. The buyers assumed the victim had stolen their money, found him and abducted him to force repayment. Five offenders were later imprisoned. Oakes, van Aperen and Blezard use the case to show how coincidence, instinct and diligent police work can save a life. Recording a registration number, connecting aliases, reviewing intelligence and making methodical local inquiries turned scattered fragments into a successful rescue. The episode closes with lighter stories from policing, but reinforces how quickly minor criminal disputes can turn violent. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    41 min
  4. Episode 22: Anatomy of a murder crime scene – Part 4

    14 de juny

    Episode 22: Anatomy of a murder crime scene – Part 4

    This final episode wraps up the podcast’s “anatomy of a murder” storyline (hear episode 1, episode 2 and episode 3) by moving from the crime scene into offender profiling, suspect analysis and a likely investigative conclusion. Steve Van Aperen, drawing on his policing experience and his work on The Hunters, joins Bradford Oakes for a conversation that balances dark subject matter with their usual dry humour. The episode opens lightly, with Steve describing his frustrations in a golf bunker, before shifting into serious questions about robbery, sentencing, bail laws and the way violent offending can escalate. A key early discussion examines the difference between burglary and aggravated burglary. Steve explains that aggravated circumstances make the offence more serious, particularly where violence, injury or confrontation is involved. This leads into a broader conversation about robberies “gone wrong”, criminal consequences and the frustrations many police feel when repeat offenders are released on bail. The main focus is the murder case the pair have been unpacking across multiple episodes. Steve and Bradford review the known evidence: the victim appeared to attend the location willingly, had possible disputes involving money or damaged property, and may have been meeting someone he knew. Steve stresses the danger of tunnel vision in investigations, explaining that detectives must test every hypothesis rather than forcing evidence to fit their first theory. The episode explores several offender profiles. A planned underworld-style execution is considered possible, given the firearm, isolated meeting place and quick exit. However, Steve also notes that the scene was not especially clean or professional. Another possibility is a personal or criminal dispute that escalated unexpectedly. Other theories, including jealousy or random robbery, are treated as less likely, especially because cash and valuables were apparently left behind. Steve identifies “Mick” or “Mickey”, a person connected to an active dispute mentioned by the victim’s brother, as an important line of inquiry. He explains how investigators would examine phone records, vehicles, associates, firearms access, search warrants and possible surveillance to build a clearer picture. Throughout, Bradford Oakes asks practical, audience-focused questions, helping Steve explain police methodology, offender behaviour and investigative objectivity. The episode closes by reinforcing that homicide investigation is a puzzle built from motive, evidence, alibis and disciplined reasoning. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    39 min
  5. Episode 21: Anatomy of a murder crime scene – Part 3

    7 de juny

    Episode 21: Anatomy of a murder crime scene – Part 3

    In Episode 21 of Fool Me Twice, Bradford Oakes and Steve Van Aperen return to their ongoing “anatomy of a murder” scenario, using a fictional targeted shooting in a Melbourne laneway to explain how homicide investigations really unfold. They begin by recapping listener questions from the previous episode, including the old detective advice to keep your hands in your pockets at a crime scene. Steve explains Locard’s exchange principle: every contact leaves a trace, whether fingerprints, fibres, DNA, or material carried away on shoes. From there, they discuss why preserving a scene “in situ” matters, using examples of contamination and misplaced evidence. The conversation also revisits “thrill kills,” which Steve defines as killings motivated by the pleasure of killing rather than revenge, greed, anger, or another conventional motive. He contrasts these with targeted murders, noting that random, pleasure-driven crimes can be much harder to solve because there may be no link between victim and offender. They then return to the fictional case: a 27-year-old man with possible organised-crime connections is found shot dead beside a roller door in an inner-city laneway. Steve explains how detectives would assess his clothing, possessions, damaged phone, missing wallet, blood patterns, cartridge cases, tyre marks, cigarette butts, drink containers, footwear impressions, and an unlatched security gate. Bradford regularly tests assumptions, while Steve cautions that each clue may be important, irrelevant, or misleading until supported by evidence. A major theme is that homicide scenes are rarely neat. Steve describes how investigators would secure CCTV, photograph and video the scene, preserve evidence, remove the body only after forensic approval, attend the autopsy for continuity, and later analyse clothing, biological traces, ballistics, toxicology, and gunshot residue. He also explains how cartridge cases can indicate a semi-automatic weapon, while projectiles may help link a firearm to a shooting. The episode balances grim investigative detail with Bradford’s humour, including jokes about crime-show clichés, police language, courtroom rituals, and his own youthful court appearance. It ends with the pair acknowledging that they have only covered the initial crime-scene actions. The next episode will move into associates, motives, and the investigative matrix. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    36 min
  6. Episode 20: Anatomy of a murder crime scene - Part 2

    31 de maig

    Episode 20: Anatomy of a murder crime scene - Part 2

    In this episode of Fool Me Twice, Brad Oakes and Steve Van Aperen return to their “anatomy of a murder” exercise, using a fictional Collingwood laneway shooting to unpack how real homicide investigators think. Steve begins by answering listener questions from the previous episode, including why an old detective once told him to keep his hands in his pockets at a crime scene. His explanation centres on Locard’s theory of transfer: every contact leaves a trace, whether it is fingerprints, fibres, hair, DNA, coffee cup residue or carpet particles carried away on a shoe. Brad keeps the discussion lively, testing Steve’s expertise with the sorts of questions an ordinary listener might ask. Could a criminal really wipe away fingerprints? Why does “in situ” matter? What exactly is a thrill kill? Steve explains that crime scenes must be preserved in their original state, because even an object that looks out of place may have an innocent explanation. He also describes thrill killings as murders committed for pleasure rather than a more obvious motive such as revenge, greed or anger. The pair then return to the imagined murder case. A 27 year old man, possibly linked to organised crime circles, is found shot dead near a roller door in a Melbourne laneway. There is no weapon, no obvious robbery, a damaged phone, cash, keys, cartridge cases, tyre marks, cigarette butts, drink containers and possible footwear impressions. Steve walks through each detail carefully, stressing that evidence can be significant, irrelevant or misleading until it is tested against the broader investigation. The episode also covers ballistics, gunshot residue, defensive wounds, blood patterns, CCTV, police running sheets and the importance of autopsies. Steve makes it clear that homicide work is not neat or quick. Investigators must preserve continuity, photograph and video evidence, attend the post-mortem, collect clothing for forensic testing and build a case piece by piece. Brad balances the grim subject matter with humour, including riffs on police jargon, court language and an unfortunate borrowed suit worn to court. By the end, Steve has only finished explaining the initial crime scene response. The next stage, he says, will involve known associates, possible motives and an investigative matrix. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    39 min
  7. Bonus Episode - Meet Fool Me Twice producer, Morry Morgan

    24 de maig ·  Contingut extra

    Bonus Episode - Meet Fool Me Twice producer, Morry Morgan

    In this bonus episode of Fool Me Twice, host Steve Van Aperen swaps the usual format for a behind-the-glass conversation with Morry Morgan, the show’s producer. With co-host Bradford Oakes away, Steve and Morry use the opportunity to revisit how the podcast began, how they first met, and the strange chain of events that eventually led to Fool Me Twice. Steve traces his journey from detective work at Flemington to training with the FBI’s Behavioural Sciences Unit, where his interest in profiling evolved into a fascination with cognitive and behavioural engineering. That path led to public speaking, international training, book opportunities, media work, and even a connection with Jennifer Lopez’s production company. Morry then takes the story back to 2007, when he and Steve first crossed paths through mutual friend Chris Mooney, who skippered a sailboat trip on Melbourne's Port Phillip Bay. At the time, Morry was working in China and looking at bringing Steve, along with lateral-thinking expert Dr Michael Hewitt-Gleeson, over for speaking engagements. Michael eventually toured China, but Steve’s plans were interrupted by the global financial crisis. The conversation then turns to Morry’s other major project: Hard Knock Knocks Comedy School. Morry explains how the school inspired a six-part comedy-drama called Is This Thing On?, developed with Stig Wemyss of Mezzanine Films. Stig encouraged Morry to add more emotional depth to the series, suggesting a psychological “B story” that would explore why ordinary people were willing to put themselves through the fear of stand-up comedy. Morry immediately thought of Steve, whose expertise helped the participants manage self-doubt, stage fright and performance anxiety. Steve reflects on how fear is often created internally, and how many of the aspiring comedians had to overcome their own assumptions before stepping on stage. The pair discuss the difference between being funny among friends and becoming a stand-up comedian, where truth is often only the starting point for a joke. Finally, Morry explains the origin of Fool Me Twice: a podcast about lying from two perspectives. Steve uncovers lies through his professional expertise, while Bradford Oakes, as a comedian, creates playful lies to make people laugh. That contrast became the heart of the show. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn stand-up comedy with Hard Knock Knocks Comedy School: Click here Watch "Is This Thing On?" comedy-drama: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    38 min
  8. Episode 19: Anatomy of a murder crime scene - Part 1

    17 de maig

    Episode 19: Anatomy of a murder crime scene - Part 1

    Episode 19 of Fool Me Twice features Bradford Oakes and Steve Van Aperen exploring what they call “the anatomy of a murder”, a detailed walkthrough of how detectives and forensic investigators approach a homicide scene. The episode combines serious crime analysis with humour and storytelling, giving listeners an insight into investigative thinking and police procedure. Bradford Oakes opens the discussion by introducing a fictional murder scenario set in Melbourne’s inner-city laneways around Collingwood and Fitzroy. The victim is described as a well-dressed young man with possible links to organised crime, found dead beside a roller door with multiple gunshot wounds and scattered cartridge casings nearby. Steve Van Aperen, drawing on his years of investigative experience, explains how detectives avoid making assumptions too early and instead focus on collecting evidence methodically. Throughout the episode, Steve stresses the importance of observation and curiosity in police work. He explains that good investigators do not simply accept what they see at face value. Instead, they ask questions, examine inconsistencies and avoid fitting evidence to preconceived theories. The pair discuss how forensic teams analyse blood spatter, bullet trajectories, gunshot residue, mobile phones and witness accounts to reconstruct what happened at a crime scene. Bradford Oakes often plays the role of the eager but inexperienced observer, jumping to conclusions that Steve quickly challenges. This creates an engaging dynamic where listeners learn how easily assumptions can derail an investigation. Steve explains that even details like the position of a body, a half-removed shoe or a damaged mobile phone may reveal crucial information about a struggle, the shooter’s movements or the victim’s final moments. The episode also touches on the psychological side of violent crime. Steve Van Aperen discusses how rage, jealousy and adrenaline can affect memory and behaviour, including situations where offenders genuinely cannot remember how many shots they fired or wounds they inflicted. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    41 min
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Informació

Fool Me Twice is a sharp, funny, and revealing podcast where deception takes centre stage. Former detective and human lie detector Stephen van Aperen joins forces with comedian Brad Oakes to unpack the strange, serious, and sometimes hilarious ways lies shape our lives. Together, they explore real-life stories where truth and fiction blur, from notorious crimes to everyday fibs, blending sharp analysis with a sense of humour that cuts right through the B.S. Because let’s face it, lying touches everything. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Fitxa tècnica

  • Creació
    The Rubber Chicken
  • Anys en actiu
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodis
    26
  • Qualificació
    Explícit
  • Copyright
    © The Rubber Chicken
  • Lloc web del programa
    Fool Me Twice

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