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31.1.

The AI Factory Floor

This week we're talking about Gastown! Dylan and Steve join Kris to break down the viral project that spins up hundreds of Claude Code instances to build a software factory. Steve makes the case for why this is an inevitable evolution and the conversation digs into what it actually means to treat software development as a factory floor. The panel traces the cycle from mainframes to PCs to cloud to AI, debates whether data centers are really the environmental villain, and gets into the real economics of AI pricing. As always, we've got supporter content! This week that includes the crypto rug pull scheme targeting open source maintainers, why conEdison is actually good at their job, whether AI subscriptions are just Uber-style subsidization all over again, the gambling psychology of usage-based costs, and Steve's secret project Docket. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of Break continues the conversation. Kris and Steve dive deep into semantic versioning, the real cost of "breaking changes" in Go, and a whirlwind history of package managers from CPAN to NPM to Go modules. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/26. Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: Prologue (00:00:00)Chapter 1: Welcome Back, Dylan (00:00:46)Chapter 2: What is Gastown? (00:06:02)Chapter 3: Where Are the AI Factory Floor Managers? (00:07:53)Chapter 4: The Industry is Cyclical (00:19:43)Chapter 5: Rug Pull as a Service [Preview] (00:23:36)Chapter 7: Energy, Grids & Con Edison [Preview] (00:24:12)Chapter 9: Mainframes Are Still Holding It Together [Preview] (00:25:00)Chapter 11: API Pricing & the Race to the Bottom [Preview] (00:25:35)Chapter 12: Is AI Pricing Just Uber All Over Again? [Preview] (00:26:12)Chapter 13: The Gambling Psychology of API Costs [Preview] (00:26:47)Chapter 15: Beads & AI Dev Tools [Preview] (00:27:23)Chapter 16: Steve's Secret Project [Preview] (00:27:52)Chapter 6: Data Centers Aren't the Villain (00:28:45)Chapter 8: The Case for Local AI (00:35:01)Chapter 10: Claude Code Usage & Hitting the Limits (00:39:55)Chapter 14: The Upgrade Treadmill (00:47:15)Chapter 17: Claude Debugging War Stories (00:56:31)Epilogue (01:01:28) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Dylan Bourque - Host Steve Klabnik - Host Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (00:00) - Prologue (00:46) - Chapter 1: Welcome Back, Dylan (06:02) - Chapter 2: What is Gastown? (07:53) - Chapter 3: Where Are the AI Factory Floor Managers? (19:43) - Chapter 4: The Industry is Cyclical (23:36) - Chapter 5: Rug Pull as a Service [Preview] (24:12) - Chapter 7: Energy, Grids & Con Edison [Preview] (25:00) - Chapter 9: Mainframes Are Still Holding It Together [Preview] (25:35) - Chapter 11: API Pricing & the Race to the Bottom [Preview] (26:12) - Chapter 12: Is AI Pricing Just Uber All Over Again? [Preview] (26:47) - Chapter 13: The Gambling Psychology of API Costs [Preview] (27:23) - Chapter 15: Beads & AI Dev Tools [Preview] (27:52) - Chapter 16: Steve's Secret Project [Preview] (28:45) - Chapter 6: Data Centers Aren't the Villain (35:01) - Chapter 8: The Case for Local AI (39:55) - Chapter 10: Claude Code Usage & Hitting the Limits (47:15) - Chapter 14: The Upgrade Treadmill (56:31) - Chapter 17: Claude Debugging War Stories (01:01:28) - Epilogue

31.1.

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1 t 3 min
25.11.2025

Magic Numbers Take Down The Internet

This cannot keep happening. Another day, another outage. On this week's episode Kris and Matt talk about the recent Cloudflare outage. And boy do they have thoughts, we really hope you enjoy this exchange of monologues. If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube: https://youtu.be/LsOgDolc9Fw This week's episode of break continues the conversation, with a few more monologues and some thinking about the state of things. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/17. And we've got bonus content for our supporters, where you'll hear about the Cloudflare outage in a bit more depth and hear the duos take on being a generalist versus a specialist. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: Prologue (00:00:00)Chapter 1: The Cloudflare Outage (00:02:17)Chapter 2: Too Much Centralization? (00:20:24)Chapter 3: Communication Matters (00:26:22)Chapter 4: Magic Numbers Take Down The Internet [Extended] (00:29:50)Chapter 5: Programming Language Hate and AI versus Tools (00:30:19)Chapter 6: The Generalist and The Specialist [Extended] (00:49:29)Epilogue (00:50:03) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Matthew Sanabria - Host Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (00:00) - Prologue (02:17) - Chapter 1: The Cloudflare Outage (02:52) - Chapter 2: Too Much Centralization? (26:22) - Chapter 3: Communication Matters (26:43) - Chapter 4: Magic Numbers Take Down The Internet [Extended] (30:19) - Chapter 5: Programming Language Hate and AI versus Tools (35:05) - Chapter 6: The Generalist and The Specialist [Extended] (50:03) - Epilogue

25.11.2025

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53 min
12.11.2025

Artisanal Software Engineering

Software engineering has an identity problem. Some software engineers want to be craftspeople and artisans, while others want to be more like the traditional engineers, while others just want to write some code. In this episode, Kris and Matt talk about the state of software engineering today and the areas that they think could use improvement. For this week's episode of break, we're pulling one out of the archives! Sometimes we record an episode and don't ship it for quite a while, and this one was recorded all the way back on July 30th! Kris and Matt talk about their (at the time) yet to be recorded episode with Mitchell, Oxide's Series B announcement, and have another conversation about software artisans. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/15. And we've got bonus content for our supporters, where you'll hear the duo's feelings about project management, the industry's lack of planning, and Kris' recent change in view around artificial intelligence. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: Prologue (00:00:00)Chapter 1: The Current State of Software Engineering (00:02:28)Chapter 2: MVPs and the Challenge of Shipping Software (00:17:05)Chapter 3: Project Management and Workflows [Extended] (00:26:01)Chapter 4: The Invisible Things (00:26:24)Chapter 5: Path Dependency and Asking Why (00:31:26)Chapter 6: Engineering Is About Design (00:46:11)Chapter 7: We Need Better Planning [Extended] (00:58:42)Chapter 8: Matt wants to write less code (00:59:02)Chapter 9: Kris' view of AI has shifted [Extended] (01:02:38)Epilogue (01:03:06) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Matthew Sanabria - Host Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (00:00) - Prologue (02:28) - Chapter 1: The Current State of Software Engineering (17:05) - Chapter 2: MVPs and the Challenge of Shipping Software (26:01) - Chapter 3: Project Management and Workflows [Extended] (26:24) - Chapter 4: The Invisible Things (31:26) - Chapter 5: Path Depenency and Asking Why (46:11) - Chapter 6: Engineering Is About Design (58:42) - Chapter 7: We Need Better Planning [Extended] (59:02) - Chapter 8: Matt wants to write less code (01:02:38) - Chapter 9: Kris' view of AI has shifted [Extended] (01:03:06) - Epilogue

12.11.2025

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1 t 9 min
30.09.2025

PHP Was Never Dead

This week we've got a grab bag episode! Kris and Matt discuss a variety of topics, including a GopherCon debrief (featuring some RustConf comparisons!), why people can't be mad all the time, the need for better abstractions, and so much more! We continue this discussion in this week's episode of Break! We get into some of the topics briefly mentioned during the main episode. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show. For our supporters, we've got two great chapters about carefully selected criticism and a new Linux distro. Not a supporter yet? You can fix that by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Show Notes: The Future of Programming - Bret VictorTable of Contents: Prologue (00:00:00)Chapter 1: GopherCon Debrief (00:02:26)Chapter 2: Corporations Are Followers (00:34:10)Chapter 3: Carefully Crafted Narratives [Supporter Only] (00:44:09)Chapter 4: You Can't Be Mad All The Time (00:45:47)Chapter 5: We Need New Abstractions (00:55:40)Chapter 6: Omarchy [Supporter Only] (01:11:45)Epilogue (01:13:27) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Matthew Sanabria - Host Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (00:00) - Prologue (02:26) - Chapter 1: GopherCon Debrief (34:10) - Chapter 2: Corporations Are Followers (44:09) - Chapter 3: Carefully Crafted Narratives [Supporter Only] (45:47) - Chapter 4: You Can't Be Mad All The Time (55:40) - Chapter 5: We Need New Abstractions (01:11:45) - Chapter 6: Omarchy [Supporter Only] (01:13:27) - Epilogue

30.09.2025

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1 t 15 min
10.1.

New Year, New Nuance

New Year, New Nuance! In this episode, Kris and Matt discuss what they're looking forward to in 2026—Matt shares the exciting news that he's becoming a dad, and the duo explore the value of growth, changing your opinions, and adding more nuance to how you see the world. They talk about what they're excited to build this year, from physical projects like woodworking and doors to the podcast platform they keep talking about. Kris shares how a conversation with Claude finally made electricity click, leading to a broader discussion about LLMs as "digital librarians" and what education should really be about: teaching you how to teach yourself. As always, we've got supporter content! This week that includes deep dives into local AI infrastructure, home networking with 10G and WireGuard, and a spicy rant about why centralized package management is fundamentally broken. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of break continues the conversation. Where the two reflect on AI doomerism's mental health toll, why things aren't worse than before, the logistics behind society's real problems, and turning waste into opportunity with BASF's Verbund principle. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/23. Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: Prologue (00:00:00)Chapter 1: Matt's Becoming a Dad (00:03:06)Chapter 2: Growth & Changing Your Opinions (00:06:39)Chapter 3: Adding More Nuance in 2026 (00:15:44)Chapter 4: What We're Excited to Build (00:24:57)Chapter 5: Learning How Things Work: Electricity (00:30:21)Chapter 6: LLMs as Digital Librarians (00:39:05)Chapter 7: The Real Purpose of Education (00:51:44)Chapter 8: Local AI Infrastructure & Home Networking [Extended] (00:58:38)Chapter 9: The Centralization Problem in Package Management [Extended] (00:59:30)Epilogue (00:59:39) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Matthew Sanabria - Host Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (00:00) - Prologue (03:06) - Chapter 1: Matt's Becoming a Dad (06:39) - Chapter 2: Growth & Changing Your Opinions (15:44) - Chapter 3: Adding More Nuance in 2026 (24:57) - Chapter 4: What We're Excited to Build (30:21) - Chapter 5: Learning How Things Work: Electricity (39:05) - Chapter 6: LLMs as Digital Librarians (51:44) - Chapter 7: The Real Purpose of Education (58:38) - Chapter 8: Local AI Infrastructure & Home Networking [Extended] (59:30) - Chapter 9: The Centralization Problem in Package Management [Extended] (59:39) - Epilogue

10.1.

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1 t 1 min
07.10.2025

The Failure of Open Source Leadership

Open source project leaders have faced heavy challenges over the last decade and a half. It seems every language community has had conflicts with its leadership: Python with the struggles of the Python 2 to 3 migration; Node.JS and the community's conflict with Joyent; Rust and their handling of trademarks and IP; Wordpress and their conflict with WPEngine; and of course Go and their conflict around dependency management (and error handling). Now we've added another: the recent conflict between Ruby Central and the community. In this episode, Kris, Matt, and Steve discuss these conflicts and what they tell us about the way we've come to see leadership within open source projects, where the blame actually lies, and what changes we can make to avoid these issues in the future. We continue this discussion in this week's episode of Break! We get into some of the topics briefly mentioned during the main episode. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show. For our supporters, we have extra chapters about the sustainability of the current model and where we should place blame for the current problems. Not a supporter yet? You can fix that by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Show Notes: Bryan Cantrill Platform as a Reflection of ValuesLow Level Rust is causing a lot of problemsIf WordPress is to survive, Matt Mullenweg must be removed‘This Is Just How We Do Things Now’: The Quiet Collapse of StandardsTable of Contents: Prologue (00:00:00)Chapter 1: How Did We Get Here? (00:02:07)Chapter 2: Why Does Open Source Like Dictators? (00:41:04)Chapter 3: So what happened with Ruby? (00:45:21)Chapter 4: How Sustainable Is All Of This? [Extended Only] (01:01:49)Chapter 5: Blame Lies Everywhere [Extended Only] (01:02:19)Chapter 6: It's Not The Individual, It's The System (01:03:06)Chapter 7: We Actually Can All Get Along (01:13:41)Chapter 8: Nuance Was Had (01:24:24) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Matthew Sanabria - Host Steve Klabnik - Host Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (00:00) - Prologue (02:07) - Chapter 1: How Did We Get Here? (41:04) - Chapter 2: Why Does Open Source Like Dictators? (45:21) - Chapter 3: So what happened with Ruby? (01:01:49) - Chapter 4: How Sustainable Is All Of This? [Extended Only] (01:02:19) - Chapter 5: Blame Lies Everywhere [Extended Only] (01:03:06) - Chapter 6: It's Not The Individual, It's The System (01:13:41) - Chapter 7: We Actually Can All Get Along (01:24:24) - Chapter 8: Nuance Was Had

07.10.2025

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1 t 30 min
04.08.2025

Championing A Cause

How do you make change happen effectively? In this episode, Matt is joined by Alex Sims to discuss championing a cause and making change happen within your organization. They discuss various strategies, including how to get started, different technical approaches, and how to deal with those who resist change. We've also have a new episode of Break! We've decided that Break will be video first, so you can watch it on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app by going to: https://break.show/ep/4. For our supporters, we have extra content, including chapters on how observability factors into making change happen and how to deal with detractors and decrees from above. Not a supporter yet? You can fix that by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: Prologue (01:39)Chapter 1: Alex's Background (02:04)Chapter 2: Becoming a Champion (08:02)Chapter 3: Dealing with Detractors [Supporter Only] (21:25)Chapter 4: Getting Started (22:10)Chapter 5: Dealing with Decrees [Supporter Only] (27:57)Chapter 6: Dealing with Detractors (continued) [Supporter Only] (28:29)Chapter 7: The Power of Observability (29:42)Chapter 8: Programming Languages (30:34)Chapter 9: Technical Debt (45:47)Chapter 10: Parting Advice (59:22)Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:01:50)Epilogue (01:08:47) Hosts Matthew Sanabria - Host Kris Brandow - Producer Alex Sims - Guest Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (01:39) - Prologue (02:04) - Chapter 1: Alex's Background (08:02) - Chapter 2: Becoming a Champion (21:25) - Chapter 3: Dealing with Detractors [Supporter Only] (22:10) - Chapter 4: Getting Started (27:57) - Chapter 5: Dealing with Decrees [Supporter Only] (28:29) - Chapter 6: Dealing with Detractors (continued) [Supporter Only] (29:42) - Chapter 7: The Power of Observability (30:34) - Chapter 8: Programming Languages (45:47) - Chapter 9: Technical Debt (59:22) - Chapter 10: Parting Advice (01:01:50) - Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:08:47) - Epilogue

04.08.2025

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1 t 13 min
23.06.2025

The Three Ps: Understanding Product, Project, and Program Management

Building software is difficult and rarely can software engineers do it alone. In this episode, Kris is joined by Ian, Matthew, and Angelica to talk managing software projects and what three often used but rarely defined roles actually mean: project manager, product manager, and program manager. The panel also discusses how these roles interact with engineering managers, what they think these roles actually do, and whether product managers should actually exist. For our supporters, this episode contains an extended discussion including a discussion on whether you should trust a new company you join, how to build trust, and what metrics we should measure for project success. Get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe. Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: Prologue (03:28)Chapter 1: Product? Project? Program? (05:18)Chapter 2: PMs and Software Engineers (13:56)Chapter 3: Splitting Roles (44:49)Chapter 4: Building Trust [Supporter Only] (53:34)Chapter 5: Metrics [Supporter Only] (54:13)Chapter 6: Should Product Managers Exist? (55:25)Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:06:37)Epilogue (01:11:56) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Ian Wester-Lopshire - Host Matthew Sanabria - Host Angelica Hill - Producer Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (03:28) - Prologue (05:18) - Chapter 1: Product? Project? Program? (13:56) - Chapter 2: PMs and Software Engineers (44:49) - Chapter 3: Splitting Roles (53:34) - Chapter 4: Building Trust [Supporter Only] (54:13) - Chapter 5: Metrics [Supporter Only] (55:25) - Chapter 6: Should Product Managers Exist? (01:06:37) - Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:11:56) - Epilogue

23.06.2025

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1 t 15 min
28.04.2025

Maintainers, Monetization, and Making The Time

Maintaining software is challenging, but monetizing it while properly valuing your time complicate matters even more. Doing all of this for open source projects is a challenge that few have figured out. In this week's episode Matt and Angelica are joined by Carlos Becker to discuss maintaining and monetizing open source projects, what it's like to work out an open source company, and how to value your own time. Plus, we've got some unpopular opinions at the end of the episode. Supporters get access to an extended conversation including a chapter on valuing time, the tools Carlos uses, and the groups thoughts on AI tooling! Get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe. Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Notes: Carlos's WebsiteTable of Contents: Prologue (01:11)Chapter 1: How Carlos Got Started (03:12)Chapter 2: Open Source Product Management (12:29)Chapter 3: Go Releaser's Architecture (15:47)Chapter 4: Monetization (23:23)Chapter 5: The Value Of Time [Extended Episode Content] (27:05)Chapter 6: Life at Charm (27:37)Chapter 7: Monetizing Open Source Projects (32:38)Chapter 8: Valuing Your Own Time (39:45)Chapter 9: The Tools Carlos Loves [Extended Episode Content] (46:57)Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (46:57)Epilogue (56:06) Hosts Kris Brandow - Producer Carlos Becker - Guest Matthew Sanabria - Host Angelica Hill - Producer Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (01:11) - Prologue (03:12) - Chapter 1: How Carlos Got Started (12:29) - Chapter 2: Open Source Product Management (15:47) - Chapter 3: Go Releaser's Architecture (23:23) - Chapter 4: Monetization (27:05) - Chapter 5: The Value Of Time [Extended Episode Content] (27:37) - Chapter 6: Life at Charm (32:38) - Chapter 7: Monetizing Open Source Projects (39:45) - Chapter 8: Valuing Your Own Time (46:57) - Chapter 9: The Tools Carlos Loves [Extended Episode Content] (46:57) - Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (56:06) - Epilogue

28.04.2025

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59 min
15.09.2025

Building For The Future

We've all experienced the dreaded rewrite. A system that was promised to last for years has grown so full of technical debt and cruft that we feel we need to throw it out and start over again. How can we avoid this? In this episode, Angelica and Matt are joined by Jon Sabados, where they discuss how to build software that can last long into the future. This week's episode does not have a companion break episode, but check out our backlog if you haven't watched them already! Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show. This week's episode features a bonus chapter for supporters! Not a supporter yet? You can fix that by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: Prologue (00:00:00)Chapter 1: Why Should We Build For The Future? (00:03:13)Chapter 2: Business Value & Future Planning (00:10:18)Chapter 3: Where Do You Start? (00:13:21)Chapter 4: How To Make Decisions Effectively (00:27:35)Chapter 5: Crafting A Solution (00:39:55)Chapter 6: What Does It Actually Mean To Build For The Future? [Supporter Only] (00:47:50)Chapter 7: A Case Study (00:49:57)Chapter 8: Incorporating New Technologies (01:05:07)Chapter 9: Building For The Future Outage (01:08:19)Chapter 10: Final Advice (01:16:34)Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:20:03)Epilogue (01:35:12) Hosts Matthew Sanabria - Host Angelica Hill - Producer Kris Brandow - Producer Jon Sabados - Guest Socials:WebsiteBlueskyThreadsX/TwitterLinkedInInstagram (00:00) - Prologue (03:13) - Chapter 1: Why Should We Build For The Future? (10:18) - Chapter 2: Business Value & Future Planning (13:21) - Chapter 3: Where Do You Start? (27:35) - Chapter 4: How To Make Decisions Effectively (39:55) - Chapter 5: Crafting A Solution (47:50) - Chapter 6: What Does It Actually Mean To Build For The Future? [Supporter Only] (49:57) - Chapter 7: A Case Study (01:05:07) - Chapter 8: Incorporating New Technologies (01:08:19) - Chapter 9: Building For The Future Outage (01:16:34) - Chapter 10: Final Advice (01:20:03) - Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:35:12) - Epilogue

15.09.2025

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1 t 36 min

A deep and nuanced conversational podcast focused on technology, software, and computing.

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Break is a Fallthrough aftershow, where Kris and Matt discuss the shows we record and other random topics.

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Hi! We're Fallthrough Media, a podcast production company. We make podcasts like Fallthrough and it's aftershow, Break.

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Suosituimmat ohjelmat

The AI Factory Floor

Magic Numbers Take Down The Internet

Artisanal Software Engineering

PHP Was Never Dead

New Year, New Nuance

The Failure of Open Source Leadership

Championing A Cause

The Three Ps: Understanding Product, Project, and Program Management

Maintainers, Monetization, and Making The Time

Building For The Future

Get bonus content, early access, and more

[Break] You're Now Less Wrong About REST

The AI Marketing Problem

Magic Numbers Take Down The Internet

Worse Is Better

New Year, New Nuance

APIs: Design Imperfectly, Improve Relentlessly

Ghostting Is Better Than Shelling

Mitchell Hashimoto's opinions of GitHub and AI

The Intersection of Software & Law

Loading Rocket Fuel Into Highly Explosive Rockets (with Go)

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Suosituimmat jaksot: Fallthrough Friend

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