The Founder-Led Marketing Show

Finn Thormeier
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In this podcast, Finn Thormeier, Founder of Project 33, shares the best Founder-Led Marketing strategies & playbooks from CEOs & Founders. Prior guests include Jason Fried, Henry Schuck, Megan Bowen, Guillaume Moubeche, Josh Braun, Todd Busler, Peter Caputa, Chris Walker, Greg Head, Adam Robinson, Gal Aga, Alina Vandenbergh, Alec Paul, Melissa Kwan and many more. Key Topics: Demand Gen, SaaS Growth, B2B Marketing, B2B Content, Linkedin, Personal Branding, Founder Branding.

  1. 6 DAYS AGO

    Sales, Life, and Career Lessons from Owner.com CRO Kyle Norton

    Owner.com powers 10,000+ restaurants with tools to grow sales, from online ordering and loyalty programs, to marketing automation. Behind that growth is Kyle Norton, CRO and former Shopify revenue leader, who’s helped rebuild the business from zero to multi-millions ARR, twice. In this episode, Kyle opens up about the habits, frameworks, and trade-offs that drive long-term success as a leader, parent, and athlete. From rebuilding after failure to finding balance with two kids and a hyper-intense founder, this one’s packed with real talk on what high performance actually looks like. What You’ll Learn - How Owner.com rebuilt from $0 to $1M ARR in a year, twice - Why Adam Guild’s intensity sets the bar for what “founder-led” really means - How martial arts shaped Kyle’s approach to sales, discipline, and resilience - The real trade-offs between startup growth, family, and health - What separates great CROs from good ones and why “bar raising” matters - How Kyle uses AI in his revenue org (and what actually delivers ROI) - Why he doesn’t chase AI hype and how Owner’s mission keeps him grounded - Lessons from Jason Lemkin on board trust, transparency, and tough feedback Founders, sales leaders, and executives who want to: -Scale teams without burning out - Lead with discipline, not chaos - Build brand trust that compounds - Stay grounded while chasing growth Connect with Kyle: - Kyle’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylecnorton/ - Revenue Leadership Podcast: https://www.therevenueleadershippodcast.com/ - Owner.com: https://www.owner.com/ Connect with me: Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Chapters 00:00 Owner.com’s story and rebuilding from $0 to $1M ARR 03:00 Lessons from martial arts and disciplined practice 07:00 Physical fitness as a superpower for startup leaders 09:30 What makes founder-led intensity different 13:00 Investing early in brand and why it paid off long-term 17:30 Balancing family, health, and high performance 24:00 The truth about kids, work, and “having it all” 26:00 What separates elite CROs from good ones 31:00 Company culture, ownership, and “the numbers too high” 34:00 Why building a personal brand matters as a leader 39:00 Kyle’s favorite podcasts and why he started his own 42:00 AI in sales and what actually works 51:00 Lessons from Jason Lemkin on trust and board management 53:30 Closing thoughts and reflections #linkedin #founderledmarketing #linkedinads #linkedinagency #founderbranding #saas #b2bmarketing #demandgeneration #demandgen #content #b2b #revenue #contentmarketing #performancemarketing #videomarketing #personalbranding

    54 min

  2. 7 OCT

    lemlist CEO’s LinkedIn Playbook ($33M ARR, 10:1 LTV/CAC)

    Charles Tenot is the CEO of Lemlist, the $33M bootstrapped B2B SaaS company behind LinkedIn favorites like Lemwarm, Taplio, and TweetHunter. In this episode, he walks us through the transition from COO to CEO, what it’s like to follow a founder like Guillaume Moubeche, and how Lemlist builds brand without performance marketing. He also unpacks his personal LinkedIn writing system (including how he gets post ideas on his motorbike), why repurposing content is underrated, and why shipping features again was key to breaking their $15M ARR plateau. This one’s packed with stories and tactics from internal growth challenges to building a content-first culture that attracts top hires and drives 10:1 LTV to CAC. What we cover: - Charles’ transition from COO to CEO - The honest truth about why Lemlist stopped growing and how they broke through - How they restarted product velocity after 12 months of “tech debt” - The Lemlist brand playbook: what it actually means to build trust - Why Charles doesn’t believe in performance marketing (and what works instead) - How he writes LinkedIn posts in 10 minutes - His system for idea capture (Slack voice notes + ChatGPT for hook ideation) - Why clickbait kills audience quality - Internal content pods, incentives, and how Lemlist encourages employee posting - Why he killed their SEO blog and what they replaced it with Perfect for: - B2B founders stuck at a revenue plateau - CEOs looking to activate their teams on LinkedIn - Marketing and brand leaders scaling a bootstrapped company - Anyone trying to build trust in a noisy category Connect with Charles: - Charles’ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlestenot/ - lemlist: https://lemlist.com/ Connect with me: Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Chapters: 00:00 – LinkedIn is a game. Play it. 01:16 – Lemlist, Lempire, and $33M ARR 03:05 – What it’s like to take over as CEO 04:45 – The power of a “clear contract” when transitioning leadership 06:40 – Biggest lesson: trust your gut (even if the founder’s still around) 08:37 – Why Charles started posting on LinkedIn (and what pissed him off) 10:44 – Why personal branding helps attract top hires 12:38 – Can you track LinkedIn ROI? Not really. Here’s what to measure instead. 13:55 – Charles’ full posting system: ideation, hooks, writing, time spent 16:15 – The difference between engagement and quality (and how to balance) 18:37 – How he gets ideas on a motorbike (and his Slack system for saving them) 20:54 – “Done is better than perfect” The mindset for scaling content 23:00 – Why Charles doesn’t repurpose content (but why you probably should) 24:23 – Guillaume’s advice, and why you need your own voice 26:40 – “Why should anyone care what you write?” (Especially if you're early) 28:40 – Why every company should think like a niche content brand 30:55 – Internal pods, incentives, and how Lemlist encourages posting 34:33 – How Guillaume helps team members write—and why some say no 36:57 – Why they stopped paying employees for impressions 38:13 – 10:1 LTV to CAC – How Lemlist drives growth with brand 40:32 – Why they killed their SEO content 42:45 – What actually builds a trustworthy brand (from sales to product) 44:48 – Breaking through the ARR plateau: what finally worked 46:47 – Why complex orgs have lagging feedback loops 48:32 – “Ship something every month that excites the customer” 50:34 – How to build a personal brand when you’re just getting started 52:38 – Use your lack of experience as your brand 54:45 – “Do cool shit and talk about it”—Content advice for students and juniors #linkedin #founderledmarketing #linkedinads #linkedinagency #founderbranding #saas #b2bmarketing #demandgeneration #demandgen #content #b2b #revenue #contentmarketing #performancemarketing #videomarketing #personalbranding

    55 min

  3. 2 OCT

    DHH: How to Make F*ck You Money, Writing, US vs EU, Building Basecamp, 37signals & Ruby on Rails

    David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH) is the co-founder & CTO of 37signals (Basecamp, HEY) and the creator of Ruby on Rails. In this episode, DHH breaks down how he built real wealth without playing the Silicon Valley game, why “f******u money” is misunderstood, and what it really takes to stay independent for 20+ years. We talk about effort, writing, grit, parenting, and how the most meaningful success doesn’t always look like a unicorn. Topics we cover in this episode: - How Basecamp started as a side project and became a 20-year business - What most people get wrong about building “fuck you money” - Why DHH bet on Ruby when no one else cared - The 2% rule: how David outworked luck - The real cost of deferred living and why it’s not worth it - Why content creation is a byproduct, not a goal - What Europe gets wrong (and right) about work and family - Why blogging and replying to people still matters Perfect for: - Founders who don’t want to raise $100M to be successful - Indie hackers and devs building side projects - Creators who actually ship things - Anyone tired of the same recycled startup advice Connect with DHH: - DHH’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-heinemeier-hansson-374b18221/ - DHH’s X: https://x.com/dhh - DHH’s blog: https://world.hey.com/dhh - DHH’s personal website: https://dhh.dk/ - 37signals: https://37signals.com/ - Basecamp: https://basecamp.com/ - HEY: https://www.hey.com/ - Once: https://once.com/ - Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/ Connect with Finn: Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Chapters 00:00 – Intro: Why wisdom becomes platitude 01:58 – The watch blog that changed lives 03:20 – What “fuck you” money really means 06:31 – Betting on Ruby when it made no sense 09:50 – Why Building for yourself means long-term leverage 11:45 – Don’t wait to live your dream 14:20 – DHH’s 2% mindset (via David Goggins) 16:45 – How one helpful email led to 37signals 18:20 – Redrawing patterns: giving gifts with no ask 20:40 – Standing out: The 0.1% effort rule 23:55 – “Content creator” is an insult. Here’s why 25:40 – Share your ideas *after* taking action 27:15 – Marketing without ads or attribution 29:40 – Gary Vee and the power of retail scale 32:00 – Jim Rohn, Stoicism, and seasons of life 35:10 – How to survive the storm 37:05 – Platitudes only work when they land 38:30 – Authenticity means being maskless 41:20 – On “fuck Apple” and reputation caveats 42:40 – Why compliments should be clean 44:30 – Balaji, network states, and philosophy 47:00 – Europe and ambition shame 50:40 – Cultural change is possible (but slow) 53:00 – Bringing success back home 55:30 – Final thoughts: Be the 2%. Always. #linkedin #founderledmarketing #linkedinads #linkedinagency #founderbranding #saas #b2bmarketing #demandgeneration #demandgen #content #b2b #revenue #contentmarketing #performancemarketing #videomarketing #personalbranding

    59 min

  4. 30 SEPT

    The Modern Executive’s Communications Playbook

    Ted Merz spent 32 years at Bloomberg. He started as reporter #15 and ended as Global Head of News Product. In this episode, Ted breaks down how storytelling became his next career. He shares the turning point after getting fired, the content habits he developed, and how that turned into Principals Media, a company helping executives build real audiences through honest stories. We talk about founder content, comms vs. brand, what most ghostwriters get wrong, and the difference between vulnerability and clarity. Topics we cover in this episode: - The truth about getting laid off at 57 (and what came next) - How LinkedIn became a proving ground for executive content - Why most founder content sounds like it was written by ChatGPT - What Bloomberg taught Ted about voice, clarity, and leadership - The difference between being vulnerable and being honest - Why memorability is more important than engagement as metric - How ghostwriters can help execs find their POV (not just polish) - The real ROI of storytelling is reputation, not reach Perfect for: - Founders and execs trying to grow on LinkedIn - Comms teams turning leadership into creators - Ghostwriters building long-term client relationships - Anyone starting over and using content to get back in the game Connect with Ted: - Ted’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ted-merz-cfa-b711257/ - Principals Media: https://www.principalsmedia.com/ Connect with me: Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Chapters 00:00 From Bloomberg to LinkedIn: how storytelling became the next chapter 02:30 Getting laid off at 57 with no plan 05:00 Going viral with real stories (and no strategy) 07:45 Why so much founder content feels generic 09:30 What ghostwriters should be doing for execs 12:15 The Bloomberg comms lessons that stuck 14:45 The danger of over-polished “vulnerability” 17:10 What metrics Ted cares about (and what he ignores) 20:20 Starting Principals Media: from DMs to clients 23:00 Helping execs write without dumbing it down 25:30 Why founder content is just good leadership in public 27:40 How writing helped Ted clarify what came next 30:00 If you want to start posting this is what you should start with #linkedin #founderledmarketing #linkedinads #linkedinagency #founderbranding #saas #b2bmarketing #demandgeneration #demandgen #content #b2b #revenue #contentmarketing #performancemarketing #videomarketing #personalbranding

    44 min

  5. 26 SEPT

    The Founder Brand Playbook Behind Recall.ai’s $38M Series B

    Amanda Zhu is the co-founder of Recall.ai, the API that lets SaaS tools access data from Zoom, Meet, Teams, and more. In just 8 months, Amanda grew her LinkedIn following to 40,000+ and turned content into a serious GTM channel, helping Recall land customers like HubSpot, Calendly, Apollo, and Datadog, while scaling past $20M ARR. In this episode, Amanda walks through her full playbook, from getting lucky with her first viral post, to building a structured, repeatable system for consistent growth. We also break down Recall’s content ops, audience targeting, and why Amanda believes credibility is earned in public, not in your pitch deck. Topics that we will cover in this episode: - The 2-week LinkedIn experiment that changed Recall’s GTM strategy - How Amanda and her marketer co-write 6 posts every week - Building a Notion database of content ideas, voice notes & pillars - Why “hook + value” is still the core formula for going viral - How to keep content fresh by varying tone, depth, and topic - What they’ve learned about the LinkedIn algorithm (and how it’s changing) - The real ROI: 20M+ impressions and customers that “already know her” - Why Amanda briefly added PS product pitches and why she removed them again Connect with Amanda: - Amanda’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zhu-amanda/ - Recall.ai: https://www.recall.ai/ Connect with me: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH Chapters 00:00 Amanda’s Background & What Recall.ai Does 02:10 Why LinkedIn Became Their Top GTM Channel 04:00 The First Posts: No Framework, Just Instinct 06:15 Going Viral Early - Luck or Strategy? 08:00 Reverse-Engineering What Works (And Building a System) 10:00 Notion Board, Weekly Content Meetings, Hands-on Writing 13:00 Voice Notes, Pillars, and Getting Granular 16:00 Scheduling Posts vs. Posting Live 17:45 Daily LinkedIn Routine & Why They Avoid Automation 19:20 The Target Account List Strategy (Manual, Not Automated) 20:45 What They Track Instead of Attribution 22:00 The Unquantifiable ROI (Conferences, Familiarity, Warm Leads) 24:30 Why Hooks Matter More Than Anything Else 25:30 The Role of Founder Stories, Frameworks, and Granular Value 27:30 Tradeoffs: Building for Founders vs. Selling to Product Leaders 29:00 Why Content Only Works if You’ve Lived the Story 30:30 Should Her Co-founder Post Too? Why Timing Matters 32:00 Advice to YC Founders: Just Start Posting (Even If It Sucks) 34:20 How to Build Your Own System 36:15 The “PS Buy Our Product” Era (Why It Worked & Why They Paused It) Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ #founderledmarketing #b2bmarketing #linkedin #saas #founderbranding #executivebranding #pr

    39 min

  6. 24 SEPT

    The 95–5 Marketing Playbook to Build Future Demand w/ Kandji’s CMO

    Sylvia LePoidevin is the CMO at Kandji, where she helped grow the Apple device management company from employee #4 to 300+, scaling from the zero-to-one phase to a mid eight figure business valued at $850M. In this episode, Sylvia breaks down what it really takes to market to technical buyers, why her team now invests in the 95% of prospects who aren’t yet in-market, and how she’s scaling brand, community, and content without losing the human touch. We talk podcast flywheels, internal marketing, enabling sales reps on LinkedIn, and building a culture of experimentation even at scale. Topics we cover in this episode: - Sylvia’s journey from employee #4 to CMO at an $850M company - Why Kandji bets on the 95% of buyers who aren’t yet in market - How to earn trust with technical buyers (and why community matters) - Their content system: podcast → blog → video → flywheel - Launching The Sequence as a separate media brand (and why it works) - Empowering internal voices: from sales reps to podcast hosts - Social selling: how Kandji is doing it - Measuring brand without relying on attribution dashboards - Marketing’s new job: internal clarity and executive storytelling - How Sylvia helps her team become future CMOs Connect with Sylvia: - Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sylvialepoidevin/ - Kandji: https://www.kandji.io/ Connect with me: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH Chapters 00:00 From employee #4 to CMO at an $850M company 01:50 The biggest lesson: Don’t wait to build brand 04:00 Who Kandji sells to and how they market to them 06:10 Why community works with technical audiences 08:30 How they balance messaging across the buying committee 10:15 Measuring brand when attribution falls short 12:00 Using podcast content to power the flywheel 14:30 Launching The Sequence as a standalone media brand 17:10 Why “people posts” outperform company posts on LinkedIn 19:40 Building a studio and enabling internal creators 21:20 LinkedIn for recruiting, not just lead gen 23:10 Social selling for sales reps: early wins 25:45 The zero-to-one content that blew up for Sylvia 28:00 How content shaped her leadership 30:50 Leading a large team: what matters now 33:15 Internal marketing and storytelling for executives 35:00 Shark Tank pitch day + being bold in brand 37:00 Giving your team space to experiment in the AI era #founderledmarketing #b2bmarketing #linkedin #saas #founderbranding #executivebranding #pr

    39 min

  7. 17 SEPT

    Adam Frankl: How to Launch & Scale a DevTool Startup (3x VP Marketing at Unicorns)

    Adam Frankl was the first VP Marketing at JFrog, Neo4j, and Sourcegraph, all three dev-first unicorns. He’s helped dozens of early-stage DevTool startups go from “cool idea” to credible company. And now he’s written the book on it. In this episode, Adam breaks down the biggest mistakes technical founders make when they try to grow. He shares the exact process he’s used to validate real problems, build developer trust, and create go-to-market clarity, before spending a single dollar on ads or content. This is the DevTool marketing blueprint. Topics we cover in this episode: - Why the best DevTools start with a real problem, not a cool idea - How to recruit a “Technical Advisory Board” to guide your strategy - The 3 best questions to ask in early-stage user interviews - Why GitHub stars ≠ validation - What your first dev-focused marketer should actually do - How to earn developer trust without hype or paid media - The difference between a founder brand and a founder POV - How to become the go-to expert in your space, even if nobody knows you yet Perfect for: - DevTool founders figuring out go-to-market - Early-stage marketers building developer credibility - Technical leaders turning product into motion Connect with Adam: - Adam’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamfrankl/ - Adam’s book - The Developer Facing Startup: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Developer-Facing-Startup-market-developer-facing/dp/B0D4KGHQML Connect with me: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH Chapters 00:00 The real DevTool go-to-market playbook 02:10 Why the best companies solve old problems, not invent new ones 04:25 How to validate with 50+ real conversations (not downloads) 06:45 What most founders get wrong about early traction 08:20 GitHub stars ≠ signal 10:00 The “Technical Advisory Board” strategy explained 13:00 How to ask better questions in early interviews 15:10 Why cold outreach work if you lead with value 17:45 The biggest red flags in early-stage feedback 20:30 Turning developer insight into content that actually works 22:50 What your first marketing hire should focus on (it’s not leads) 26:00 Founder POV vs. Founder Brand 28:30 Why developers follow people—not companies 30:15 Adam’s content hierarchy: 1. research, 2. insight, 3. distribution 33:00 The social proof flywheel and when to start turning it 35:45 Picking the right distribution channel for your audience 37:20 Why forced content formats always fail 40:00 Do you need a new category or just a better story? 42:10 Final advice: what early DevTool teams should obsess over Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ #linkedin #founderledmarketing #linkedinads #linkedinagency #founderbranding #saas #b2bmarketing #demandgeneration #demandgen #content #b2b #revenue #contentmarketing #performancemarketing #videomarketing #personalbranding

    50 min

  8. 10 SEPT

    How this VP of Comms Built ZoomInfo’s $1.2B CEO Brand on LinkedIn

    Meghan Barr helped build one of the most powerful CEO brands on LinkedIn. As VP of Brand, Content & Comms at ZoomInfo, she’s spent the last 5 years helping turn Henry Schuck (CEO of ZoomInfo, $1.2B ARR) into a storytelling machine, without losing authenticity. In this episode, we go behind the scenes of that process: - How Meghan transitioned from journalism to tech - The content pillars behind ZoomInfo’s CEO brand - How their “in your corner” videos are made - What happened when they took out apology billboards - Why Henry’s posts outperform ZoomInfo’s 240K-follower brand page - How she’s scaling the strategy to other executives (and what she looks for) - The playbook for brand leaders, comms teams, and CEOs who actually want their voice to cut through. - Topics we cover in this episode: - Going from Boston Globe journalist to ZoomInfo’s VP of Brand - The origin story of ZoomInfo’s LinkedIn strategy - Why they prioritize LinkedIn over blogs and press releases - How to turn a CEO’s voice into a repeatable content system - Managing risk, pushback, and post-performance conversations The “personal + product” content blend that works best Perfect for: - Comms leaders building their CEO's Brand - Founders building their LinkedIn voice - Brand and content teams scaling thought leadership content Connect with Meghan: - Meghan’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meghan-barr-3211865/ - ZoomInfo: https://www.zoominfo.com/ LinkedIn Connect with me: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finnthormeier/ Website: https://www.project33.io/ Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/03CXzsZp7wdqIRVDcqPTFH Chapters 00:00 Meghan’s journey from newsroom to ZoomInfo 02:00 Why Henry Schuck hired a journalist, not a marketer 04:00 Making the jump during COVID and overcoming imposter syndrome 06:30 How newsroom skills transfer to startup brand leadership 08:20 Building trust with a high-expectation founder CEO 10:15 When LinkedIn replaced blogs (and why) 12:00 Henry’s viral obituary post: how it came together 14:30 The sausage-making behind every post 16:10 Content goals: Product, People, and Personal 18:00 Metrics: From 100K+ impressions to today’s new benchmarks 20:45 Dealing with performance pressure and pushback 23:00 Risk-taking: The billboard apology stunt that paid off 26:15 Turning ZoomInfo’s sentiment from negative to positive 28:30 Why LinkedIn is also internal comms now 30:00 Activating the rest of the executive team 32:00 Why safe content doesn’t work anymore 34:00 Aligning CEO messaging with company brand strategy 36:00 How Henry’s scrappy product demos are made 38:30 Why founder-led video works at scale 40:15 The no “leaders of leaders” mindset inside ZoomInfo 42:00 KPIs for executive content (followers, media, reach) 44:15 The new role of PR in an AI-dominated world 46:00 Why thought leader ads are a missed opportunity 49:00 Inspiration from John Gray, Daniel Ek, and McDonald’s CEO 51:00 What’s next: Vertical earnings videos and employee advocacy 53:00 How much time Henry actually spends on content 55:00 Final thoughts: Building trust and a strong internal rhythm #linkedin #founderledmarketing #linkedinads #linkedinagency #founderbranding #saas #b2bmarketing #demandgeneration #demandgen #content #b2b #revenue #contentmarketing #performancemarketing #videomarketing #personalbranding

    57 min
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About

In this podcast, Finn Thormeier, Founder of Project 33, shares the best Founder-Led Marketing strategies & playbooks from CEOs & Founders. Prior guests include Jason Fried, Henry Schuck, Megan Bowen, Guillaume Moubeche, Josh Braun, Todd Busler, Peter Caputa, Chris Walker, Greg Head, Adam Robinson, Gal Aga, Alina Vandenbergh, Alec Paul, Melissa Kwan and many more. Key Topics: Demand Gen, SaaS Growth, B2B Marketing, B2B Content, Linkedin, Personal Branding, Founder Branding.

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