Alternative Exit

Andy
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Alternative Exit is a dedicated to educating small business owners about the possibilities, benefits, and challenges of transitioning to an employee ownership model. There are over 200m SMEs with an owner who will be retiring in the next 10 years, many of which will never find a buyer for their business, forcing them to close their doors.  There is an alternative. This show will explore various the different forms of employee ownership and best practices for successful transitions. Each episode features interviews with experts in employee ownership, business owners who have made the transition, and consultants who facilitate these changes.

  1. Alternative Exit #64 | 400+ Transitions Later: What Actually Makes EO Work

    30 APR

    Alternative Exit #64 | 400+ Transitions Later: What Actually Makes EO Work

    After 400+ employee ownership transitions and over two decades in the space, Ewan Hall has seen what works and what doesn't. In this episode, he walks Andy through the practical realities of EOT transitions in the UK — from the tax recalibration last October to the four pillars every successful transition needs (deal, ownership, governance, culture). Ewan unpacks the concept of "enough" that unlocks seller psychology, the underused role of debt finance, and a deceptively simple framework — informed, consult, consent — that resolves who decides what after the founder steps back. Honest, experienced, and refreshingly free of the EO hype. Chapters (00:00) Welcome and introduction(02:26) The story behind 20+ years in EO(05:53) Why employee owned firms still face succession challenges(07:42) Separating ownership succession from leadership succession(11:17) Why owners choose EO over a trade sale(13:21) The concept of "enough" and the magic number(18:00) The 25% rule: how long it really takes to fund a 100% disposal(22:21) The 2014 tax relief and mainstreaming EO(23:41) October 2024: from 100% to 50% CGT discount(28:34) The missed opportunity around debt finance(32:26) Refinancing the back-end of founder debt(33:26) The four pillars: deal, ownership, governance, culture(37:04) Informed, consult, consent in practice(40:31) Day, year, extremis: stress-testing your structure(42:27) Fast round: leaders, resources, advice(45:00) Where to find EwanKey takeaways 💡 Ownership succession and leadership succession run on different timelines — don't conflate them.✅ The conversation about "enough" unlocks every other decision a founder needs to make.🎯 Profit multiple + 25% = roughly the years it'll take to fund a 100% disposal at flat profits.🌟 The four pillars of a healthy transition: the deal, ownership, governance, and culture.💷 EOT tax relief at 50% still saves around 12% — no other UK exit comes close.⚖️ Stress-test your structure across three scenarios: a day, a year, and an emergency.Notable quotes "You don't just stick shares in a trust and call it a day.""Once people get past the concept of enough, they unclench a bit.""I want to be able to drive past this workplace and feel all right about it."Links 🔗 Ewan Hall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ewan-hall-3a7b902a/🔗 Baxendale Employee Ownership: https://baxendaleownership.co.uk🔗 Employee Ownership Association: https://employeeownership.co.uk🔗 Host Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/🔗 a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    43 min
  2. Alternative Exit #63 | No Silver Bullet, But There Is Magic in EO | Joseph Cureton, Sarvis Health

    23 APR

    Alternative Exit #63 | No Silver Bullet, But There Is Magic in EO | Joseph Cureton, Sarvis Health

    Joseph Cureton spent nearly a decade building Obran Cooperative, the first worker-owned cooperative holding company in the US. In 2025, he exited and started something new. Sarvis Health is an ESOP-based roll-up of home care agencies, wrapped in a proprietary AI-enabled operating platform called Sarvis OS. In this conversation, Joseph breaks down why he shifted from co-op to ESOP, what he learned about the "magic" (and the myths) of shared ownership, and why home care is uniquely suited to employee ownership. He also shares how Sarvis is using AI to fix broken workflows, why design partners matter, and the one question every fence-sitting owner should ask themselves. Chapters: (00:00) Welcome and introducing Joseph(01:39) From Obran to Sarvis: co-op to ESOP(07:10) No silver bullet — operations come first(09:26) The real magic of employee ownership(11:05) Home care and the Silver Tsunami(13:29) Going head-to-head with private equity(16:32) Rituals, open-book management, alignment(23:50) Sarvis OS: the three-part rollout(30:53) Investing in tech and people together(34:00) The design partner model(39:30) A five-year vision(43:50) Fast round(46:10) A question for owners on the fenceKey Takeaways: 💡 Employee ownership isn't a magic bullet. You still have to be a great operator every day.✅ The magic is a team of "disagreeable givers" aligned around shared outcomes.🌟 Home care fits employee ownership because workers already care deeply about their communities.🎧 A single AI-enabled platform turns ownership engagement into action.✅ Start with the detractors. The loudest critics make the best design partners.Notable Quotes: "There's no silver bullet. And there is some magic.""Clarity is kindness.""In five or ten years, what option would you regret not taking?"Links & Resources: Joseph Cureton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephbuilds/Sarvis Health: https://sarvishealth.comObran Cooperative: https://www.obran.coopThe Companies We Keep by John AbramsCollective Courage by Jessica Gordon NembhardHost Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    44 min
  3. Alternative Exit #62 | From Fortune 500 to EO: why Kevin Clegg bet on his people & doubled profits

    2 APR

    Alternative Exit #62 | From Fortune 500 to EO: why Kevin Clegg bet on his people & doubled profits

    What happens when a CEO with over a decade in Fortune 500 companies returns to a family auto business and insists from day one that any exit must benefit the employees? You get America's first employee ownership trust – and one of the most compelling performance stories in the employee ownership movement. Kevin Clegg shares how Clegg Auto, a group of four repair shops in Utah County, doubled profits and grew employee profit-sharing tenfold in their very first year as an EOT – without raising a single price. He also digs into the real challenge: building an ownership culture from the inside out, and his evolving vision for a business cooperative movement that could reshape small business succession across the US. Key Takeaways: ✅ Employee ownership isn't just an exit strategy – it's an operating model that drives measurable performance from day one ✅ Structuring profit-sharing so employees benefit immediately (not after former owners are paid off) is what makes it real and tangible ✅ Financial transparency is a powerful tool – but open-book management only works when employees can see their own personal impact on the numbers ✅ Building an ownership culture takes years, not a transaction – and even seasoned owners don't always act like owners ✅ A business cooperative (not a worker cooperative) could be the scalable model to bring the Silver Tsunami of retiring owners into employee ownership en masse ✅ The best employee voice frameworks match decision-making authority to expertise – not a one-person, one-vote free-for-all Notable Quotes: 💬 "There should be some sort of exit that's beneficial for everyone – not just for the people who started the thing." 💬 "The hardest part of the transition to employee ownership wasn't coming up with the structure and transacting it. The hardest part still is – and is – the culture afterwards." 💬 "There's nothing better than preserving what you've created, and there's no better way to do it, in my opinion, than employee ownership." Links: 🔗 Kevin Clegg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-clegg-59655a/ 🔗 Clegg Auto website: https://cleggauto.com 🔗 Host Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ 🔗 a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    41 min
  4. Sleeping Giant: How One MD Tripled Revenue Through Employee Ownership | Colin Wade, Chemco

    12 MAR

    Sleeping Giant: How One MD Tripled Revenue Through Employee Ownership | Colin Wade, Chemco

    What happens when you stop looking for a younger version of yourself and start fixing what's actually broken? Colin Wade tripled revenue at a Scottish coatings manufacturer by doing succession differently. About the episode: Most founders approach succession by searching for someone just like them — younger, with decades of niche expertise, ready to replicate what made the business successful. Colin Wade's founder at Chemco International tried that approach multiple times. It never worked. The business didn't need another technical genius. It needed someone to cherish the strengths whilst fixing the weaknesses. Colin joined Chemco in 2018 specifically to lead its transition to 100% employee ownership — an unusual move for a seasoned MD, but one inspired by David Erdal's book about Loch Fyne Oysters. He started with a simple SWOT analysis, recruited to fill the gaps, and spent two patient years building a culture where factory floor workers became self-empowered shareholders. Chemco now runs a hybrid model with a 51% EOT and up to 49% direct shares distributed equally to all employees. This conversation explores deliberate succession planning, why manufacturing employees can absolutely embrace ownership, and how quarterly "shareholder meetings" change the relationship between management and workforce. Guest Information: 🔗 Colin Wade — Managing Director, Chemco International LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinwade1967/ 🔗 Chemco International: https://www.chemcoint.com Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction 01:52 - Actively seeking employee ownership 03:05 - Why founders seek younger versions of themselves 04:26 - Inspired by David Erdal's book 06:22 - The succession unicorn problem 08:05 - Starting with SWOT analysis 09:10 - Cherishing strengths, recruiting for weaknesses 10:05 - Succession planning & EO transitions 11:30 - Collaborative problem-solving 12:43 - Can manufacturing embrace ownership? 13:18 - The settling-in period 14:33 - Resistance to change 15:30 - Two years to build the right team 16:24 - When self-empowerment feels overwhelming 18:17 - Quarterly shareholder meetings 20:04 - Hybrid model: 51% trust, 49% direct shares 22:31 - Skin in the game 24:17 - Patience in culture change 25:42 - Leadership in employee-owned businesses 27:46 - Best of capitalism and cooperation 28:38 - Advice for owners on succession 31:27 - Fast round 34:03 - Connect with Colin and Chemco About The Alternative Exit: A podcast exploring employee ownership as a succession planning strategy, hosted by Andy Farquharson of a better monday. 🔗 Host: Andy Farquharson — https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ 🔗 Learn more: https://abettermonday.me Links & Resources: Chemco International: https://www.chemcoint.com"Local Heroes" by David Erdal (Loch Fyne Oysters story)Employee Ownership Association UK: https://employeeownership.co.ukScottish Enterprise Employee Ownership support #EmployeeOwnership #EOT #Manufacturing #SuccessionPlanning #Scotland #EmployeeOwned #BusinessSuccession #AlternativeExit #Leadership #Coatings

    30 min
  5. Alternative Exit #60 | Three Dimensions of Ownership: Purpose, Profit & Power | Mark Hand

    26 FEB

    Alternative Exit #60 | Three Dimensions of Ownership: Purpose, Profit & Power | Mark Hand

    What if every business owner played a different game? Mark Hand has spent his career asking that question, first in community development in Latin America, then as an impact investor, and now as a scholar mapping the ownership economy. His weekly newsletter, The Stakehold, tracks everything from ESOPs to worker co-ops to purpose trusts, revealing an ecosystem most people don't realise exists. In this conversation, Mark breaks down the three dimensions of alternative ownership (purpose, profit distribution, and power), explains why 'fat wallets and broken hearts' is the real cost of traditional exits, and challenges us to help business owners surface what actually matters to them beyond maximising financial returns. Key Takeaways: 💡 Three dimensions of ownership transformation — companies are experimenting with purpose (why we exist), profit distribution (who benefits), and power (who decides), and these dimensions can be approached independently or together ✅ Structure makes purpose real — benefit corporations, purpose trusts, and employee ownership lock in commitments that signal to stakeholders this isn't lip service, it's irrevocable 🌟 As many employee owners as union members — in the US, employee ownership already touches as many workers as labour unions, but most employee owners don't see themselves as part of a movement 🎧 Owners are playing multiple games — business owners aren't just profit-maximisers, they're parents, community members, congregation members with different identities that get triggered by how you approach the conversation 📈 Fat wallets and broken hearts — many owners who sell to private equity leave wealthy but regretful, watching their companies dismantled and their employees laid off 💼 Democracy works in complex systems — if countries can operate democratically without dictators, companies (which are simpler than nations) can too Notable Quotes: "I saw friends of his sell to private equity companies and they left with fat wallets and broken hearts. Humans have wallets and we also have hearts." "Our commitment to shareholder value maximisation has actually blinded us to the ways that humans interact with each other and what is possible." "If you can figure out how to run a country democratically, why wouldn't we be able to do that in a company, which is actually a much simpler structure?" Links & Resources: 🔗 Guest: Mark Hand — https://www.linkedin.com/in/markchand 🔗 The Stakehold (weekly newsletter): https://www.thestakehold.com 🔗 PTON (Purpose Trust Ownership Network): https://trustownership.org/ 🔗 Mark's website: https://markclaytonhand.com/ 📖 Recommended: Rutgers CLEO website (compilation of academic learning on employee ownership) 🔗 Host: Andy Farquharson — https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ 🔗 a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    39 min
  6. Alternative Exit #59 | The Danish Blueprint: How to Pass Employee Ownership Laws w Andreas Jørgensen

    19 FEB

    Alternative Exit #59 | The Danish Blueprint: How to Pass Employee Ownership Laws w Andreas Jørgensen

    On 1st January 2026, Denmark made history. For the first time, the country passed dedicated legislation creating a vehicle for employee ownership — the EOC, or Employee Ownership Company. This is the story of how it happened. Andreas Pinstrup Jørgensen spent seven years cold-calling politicians, uniting seven parties across the political divide, building coalitions with unions and universities, and publishing a book that sparked a national conversation. What started as a bottom-up grassroots initiative became landmark legislation. In this episode, Andreas walks through the blueprint for making employee ownership law — and what Denmark does next to make the revolution real. Key Takeaways: 🌟 Denmark's EOC law creates a level playing field for the first time — previously it was always easier to sell to family or an external buyer than to employees ✅ Cross-party unity was the secret weapon — seven parties from across the political divide agreed because employee ownership solved four shared problems: succession, productivity, worker welfare, and community resilience 💡 Three implementation lessons from the UK — create early champions, build the advisor ecosystem, and rigorously document everything so the law can be refined 🎧 Lower barriers accelerate uptake — Denmark only requires a 33% minimum sale to employees (vs 50% in the UK's EOT), making it easier for cautious owners to take the first step 📈 Capital infrastructure is next — five financial institutions are already in discussions on loan guarantees and strategic employee ownership lending 🔗 The employees are genuinely in control — unlike some models, Denmark's EOC gives employees 100% ownership of the holding vehicle and seats on the board Notable Quotes: "I have never been in a room where we could agree so much across the radical left and radical right. I've not seen anything like it since the climate movement in Denmark." "You have an opportunity to make history. This is a way to preserve your legacy — by turning your company over to the employees. That will make your company more stable in the future." "We are in great debt to the UK, the EOA, Graham Nuttall, Campbell. We've got all these people that have helped us — and that's the only reason I have quite a bit of optimism that this might create, within a few years, an ownership revolution." Links & Resources: 🔗 Guest: Andreas Pinstrup Jørgensen — https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreas-pinstrup-j%C3%B8rgensen-021ba3a8/ 🔗 Think Tank for Democratic Businesses: https://demokratiskerhverv.dk/ 📖 Book: Medejer (Co-Ownership — the art of overtaking competitors through democratic ownership), 2020 📖 Recommended reading: Making One Dragon (White & White) | The Citizen's Share (Blasi, Freeman & Kruse, 2013) 🔗 Host: Andy Farquharson — https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ 🔗 a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    31 min
  7. Alternative Exit #58 | A 40M Owner Vision Through Employee Ownership& EtA | Michael Morosi

    5 FEB

    Alternative Exit #58 | A 40M Owner Vision Through Employee Ownership& EtA | Michael Morosi

    What if the most powerful way to create employee owners wasn't one company at a time - but through strategic acquisitions? Michael Morosi is proving that existing employee-owned companies can become acquisition engines that transform entire industries. As Co-Founder of 40 Million Owners and Managing Partner at Southeast Acquisition Capital, he's pioneered a model where ESOPs use M&A to grow, create value, and expand employee ownership at scale. About the episode: This conversation dives deep into the mechanics and mindset of ESOP acquisitions. Michael shares his journey from managing $100M in equity funds in Madrid to building Southeast Acquisition Capital from zero to $25M in revenue through strategic ESOP acquisitions. We explore why ESOPs have structural advantages as acquirers, how to build culture across a portfolio of employee-owned companies, and why the upcoming wave of Baby Boomer exits could create 40 million new employee owners. Whether you're running an ESOP considering growth through acquisition or a business owner exploring succession options, this episode reveals a playbook for building sustainable, employee-owned enterprises. Guest Information: 🔗 Michael Morosi - Co-Founder, 40 Million Owners & Managing Partner, Southeast Acquisition Capital LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-morosi/ 🔗 40 Million Owners: https://40millionowners.com 🔗 Southeast Acquisition Capital: https://www.southeastacquisition.com Chapters/Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Michael Morosi 04:32 - From Global Equity Management to Employee Ownership 12:15 - The Birth of 40 Million Owners 18:45 - Why ESOPs Make Excellent Acquirers 27:30 - Southeast Acquisition Capital's Model 35:20 - From Zero to $25M in Revenue Through Acquisitions 42:15 - The Mechanics of ESOP M&A 51:00 - Building Culture Across Multiple Companies 58:30 - The 3LS Acquisition Story 01:04:20 - Vision for 40 Million Employee Owners About The Alternative Exit: A podcast exploring employee ownership as a succession planning strategy, hosted by Andy Farquharson of a better monday. 🔗 Host: Andy Farquharson - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ 🔗 Learn more: https://abettermonday.me Links & Resources: 40 Million Owners website: https://40millionowners.comSoutheast Acquisition Capital: https://www.southeastacquisition.comMichael's article "The Force Multiplier": https://40millionowners.com/2025/03/12/the-force-multiplier/ #EmployeeOwnership #ESOP #MergersAndAcquisitions #SuccessionPlanning #ImpactInvesting #PrivateEquity #BusinessGrowth #EmployeeOwned #CorporateDevelopment #AlternativeExit

    51 min
  8. Alternative Exit #57 | Closing the $10 Trillion Wealth Gap with Employee Ownership with Noelle Lentz

    29 JAN

    Alternative Exit #57 | Closing the $10 Trillion Wealth Gap with Employee Ownership with Noelle Lentz

    Episode Summary: What if the solution to America's wealth inequality crisis was hiding in plain sight? Noelle Lentz is mobilising millions in capital specifically designed for employee ownership transitions. As CEO of Allivate Impact Capital, she's launched one of only two ESOP-focused funds in the US, providing the subordinated debt that makes employee ownership financially viable for selling owners. With over 50% of business owners aged 55+, Noelle explains why employee ownership isn't just good for workers it's the smartest succession strategy for preserving legacy, stabilising supply chains, and creating economic equity at scale. Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction 01:42 - From International Development to Community Finance 04:54 - Founding Allivate Impact Capital 08:56 - The Silver Tsunami and Employee Ownership 12:45 - How the Elevate Employee Ownership Fund Works 18:30 - Target Companies and Investment Criteria 22:15 - The Capital Gap in ESOP Transitions 27:09 - Scaling from $10M to $150M Through SBIC Licensing 30:08 - Finding Deal Flow and Partnerships 31:04 - Quick Fire Round Key Takeaways: ✅ Over 50% of US business owners are 55+ and facing succession decisions in the next decade 💡 Employee-owned companies show higher productivity, retention, and morale than traditional structures 🎯 Most ESOP transitions require 70-80% seller financing because banks won't subordinate debt 💰 Allivate provides $1-2M in subordinated debt (15% of deal value) to make transitions financially viable 📈 The fund is targeting $150M through SBIC licensing to create thousands of employee owners 🌟 Employee ownership receives rare bipartisan political support due to economic stabilisation benefits Notable Quotes: "This is not just a payday, this is your legacy. And if there's a way to preserve that legacy, empower your employees, and still get the financial return you've worked so hard for, it's really worth considering." "When you're not just coming to work to check your time card and clock out, you're really thinking like an owner and contributing to not just the company's bottom line, but your own bottom line." Links & Resources: 🔗 Noelle Lentz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noellestclair 🔗 Allivate Impact Capital: https://allivate.com

    33 min
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About

Alternative Exit is a dedicated to educating small business owners about the possibilities, benefits, and challenges of transitioning to an employee ownership model. There are over 200m SMEs with an owner who will be retiring in the next 10 years, many of which will never find a buyer for their business, forcing them to close their doors.  There is an alternative. This show will explore various the different forms of employee ownership and best practices for successful transitions. Each episode features interviews with experts in employee ownership, business owners who have made the transition, and consultants who facilitate these changes.

Information

  • Creator
    Andy
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    65
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Andy
  • Show Website
    Alternative Exit

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