How do we create a future that is neither collapse nor techno-utopia? In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Ivo Mensch about what it really means to co-create the Third Attractor.Rather than treating the Third Attractor as a fixed destination, Ivo sees it as a way of navigating: a living orientation that helps us respond wisely to each moment while remaining open to an unknown future. Together they explore why holding paradoxes, rather than resolving them, may be one of the defining capacities of an emerging consciousness. The conversation moves through some of today’s most important questions: the limits of individual development, the need for coherent rather than merely cohesive communities, and why spirituality must once again become deeply engaged with culture rather than remaining an individual pursuit. They discuss the role of grand narratives, world-making, and the challenge of building shared visions without turning them into rigid ideologies. NoteGPT_Transcript_ThirdAttractorIvo.txtA central theme is Ivo’s work on unlearning. Drawing on neuroscience, systems thinking, and contemplative practice, he argues that our deepest assumptions about reality, identity, time, and progress unconsciously shape how we perceive the world. Genuine transformation begins not by adding new ideas, but by loosening our attachment to old mental models so that new possibilities can emerge. This is a conversation for anyone interested in systems change, metamodernism, integral thinking, collective intelligence, spirituality, and the practical work of creating a more coherent future together. Ivo Mensch works where contemplative practice meets cultural change. He is a founding member of the Emerge Institute in Stockholm, where he directs Research and Consilience, and he previously built the Praxis strand at Perspectiva, the London-based charity describing its work as a hundred-year project on the relationship between systems, souls and society.His research examines innovation in spiritual practice, particularly interbeing, working toward what he calls a spiritually informed sociology built around the body, time, imagination and logos as the fundamental dimensions of change.The underlying question is not what practice does for the individual but what it makes a culture capable of perceiving and doing.He is an ordained monk in the Soto Zen lineage and has practiced in the Diamond Approach for over a decade. As an author and coach, he designs practices and courses for navigating long arcs of cultural transition and shifts in consciousness. He is a certified Integral Development Coach, trained in Aletheia group unfolding, and writes at his Substack, Increasing Life, on culture, technology, consciousness and collective action.A large part of his focus is unlearning: what people working to change the world need to release before anything new can take hold, and what forms of education actually support that.Emerge Institute: https://emergelakefront.orgPerspectiva: https://systems-souls-society.comHis Substack, Increasing Life:About Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is now Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.comManifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com
