The CMO Pivot

WRKdefined
WRKdefined
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  • Marketing
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Where the CMO role actually goes next. Not company updates. Not product roadmaps. Not 2026 planning cycles. The CMO Pivot is a straight-shot conversation with the marketing leaders who’ve lived the job before COVID, survived the chaos after it, and now see where the role is unmistakably headed. From brand to demand gen, product marketing to category creation—and now, everything AI is burning down and rebuilding in real time—the CMO seat is shifting faster than any other role in the C-Suite. This show is here to document that pivot, one brutally honest perspective at a time. No corporate PR. No talking points. No “let me tell you what our company is doing next quarter.” Just perspective. Opinion. Pattern recognition. Hard-earned experience. The stuff every marketing leader secretly wishes they had more access to. The CMO Pivot is built for Work Tech, but the insights from these conversations apply across the board. If you want to hear how real CMOs think—unfiltered, unsponsored, and unburdened by company narratives—this is our new weekly ritual. New episodes drop in January.

Épisodes

  1. -2 j

    The CMO’s Real Job Isn’t Generating Leads with Mini Peiris

    The best CMOs do more than run marketing. They shape the company narrative, connect product and revenue, understand how people make decisions, and know when an unmeasurable idea is still worth pursuing. In this episode, Ryan Leary speaks with five-time CMO Mini Peiris about the career choices that took her from writing technical support articles to helping build the early SaaS playbook at NetSuite and leading marketing at Cornerstone OnDemand. Mini explains why career progression does not need to be linear, how customer advocacy creates demand that attribution software cannot always capture, and why today’s CMO must think beyond leads, individual buyers, and traditional search. Key Takeaways Lateral moves, cross-functional projects, and unfamiliar industries can build the range required for executive leadership. The goal is not simply collecting bigger titles. It is intentionally adding skills, experiences, and perspectives that make you more capable. People remember how a story makes them feel, not a list of product features. Strong B2B storytelling begins with the buyer’s ambitions, challenges, and motivations, then positions the customer as the central character instead of the vendor. Mini shares how a women’s leadership initiative created speaking opportunities, mentorship, recognition, and stronger personal brands for customers. The initiative built community and opened commercial doors because it served people before asking anything from them. MQL volume is no longer enough. Marketing must reach the broader buying committee, support company strategy, and create quality pipeline using a mix of programs that cannot always be perfectly attributed to one campaign or interaction. The modern CMO helps connect the CEO, product organization, and revenue team around a shared vision. The exact responsibilities may change between companies, but strategic CMOs earn influence by shaping where the business is going, not simply feeding leads to sales. AI can accelerate content development, identify more precise buyer profiles, personalize outreach, and improve how marketers reach entire buying committees. At the same time, search is shifting toward AI-generated answers, forcing marketers to think beyond SEO and prepare for AEO and GEO. Chapters 00:00 Mini Peiris and the Early SaaS Playbook03:54 Building a Career with Intention06:43 Why Lateral Moves Matter09:48 Learning Through New Industries12:05 Making the Customer the Protagonist15:30 Building Customer Advocacy Through Community17:46 The Pipeline You Cannot Perfectly Attribute20:22 Giving Without Immediate Expectations21:26 Moving Beyond MQLs23:50 Creating Alignment Across the C-Suite25:00 How the CMO Role Changes by Company26:09 Using AI Across Marketing30:06 Reaching the Entire Buying Committee32:09 AI, Talent, and the Future Workforce36:45 SEO, AEO, and the Reinvention of Search Today's Guest Mini Peiris is a five-time CMO with experience spanning NetSuite, Nintex, Doma, Ambra Health, and Cornerstone OnDemand. Her career has crossed product management, product marketing, demand generation, brand development, and go-to-market strategy across SMB, mid-market, and enterprise organizations. Connect with Mini Peiris on LinkedIn Today's Host Ryan Leary is the co-founder of WRKdefined Podcast Network and host of The CMO Pivot. He covers the people, companies, technology, and ideas changing how organizations work, hire, and grow. Connect with Ryan Leary on LinkedIn WRKdefined is a podcast network covering the people and technology changing the world of work. With nearly 100 shows, more than 9,000 episodes, and over 4 million monthly impressions, WRKdefined brings together operators, founders, practitioners, analysts, and executives shaping what comes next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  2. 20 juil.

    The CMO Playbook: Rebranding for the AI Era with Jody Kaminsky, CMO at ICIMS

    A brand refresh should do more than swap a logo and call it a day. It should reflect where the company is going, how its strategy has evolved, and what it wants the market to know. Jody Kaminsky, CMO of iCIMS, joins Ryan Leary to walk through the company's recent brand transformation, the retirement of its longtime mascot Ike, and how iCIMS is positioning itself around the thoughtful use of AI in hiring. She also breaks down what aspiring CMOs need to learn beyond traditional marketing, why business acumen matters at the executive level, and how AI is reshaping messaging, content production, and the way buyers research. Key Takeaways A brand refresh is a business strategy decision, not a design project. A new identity should reflect the company's current mission, product roadmap, and market position. Changing the visuals without addressing the strategy just creates a better-looking version of an outdated story. Strong CMOs understand the entire marketing operation. Reaching the C-suite requires experience beyond one specialty — marketing ops, tech, analytics, product marketing, brand, demand gen, and the systems connecting marketing to revenue. Understanding how the company makes money changes how you lead. Executives don't need a marketer who only understands marketing activity. They need leaders who understand customers, margins, growth, sales, product strategy, and how marketing decisions affect the business. AI makes content faster to create and harder to differentiate. Everyone can produce more in less time. The advantage won't come from volume. It'll come from sharper thinking, stronger points of view, and content that still feels human. Marketing must adapt to AI-driven buyer research. Buyers are using AI tools and LLMs before visiting company sites or clicking search results. Brands need clear, credible, well-structured information that AI systems can understand without sacrificing accuracy or authenticity. Guest Information Jody Kaminsky — Chief Marketing Officer, iCIMS — LinkedIn About the Host Ryan Leary is the founder of WRKdefined and host of CMO Pivot. Connect with him on LinkedIn. Chapters 00:00 — Why rebranding starts with business strategy01:00 — The evolution of the iCIMS brand02:00 — Retiring Ike after nearly 25 years03:00 — Moving from marketing specialist to CMO04:00 — Why business acumen matters in marketing leadership05:00 — What CEOs want from modern CMOs06:00 — Using AI to improve marketing productivity07:00 — The growing challenge of content differentiation08:00 — Preparing marketing content for AI-powered search09:00 — Why human judgment remains essential in an AI-driven market Connect with WRKdefined on your favorite social network: Site: http://www.wrkdefined.com TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wrkdefined LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/wrkdefined Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WRKdefined/ Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/WRKdefined Substack: https://wrkdefined.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  3. 29 juin

    Marketing Isn't About Creativity Anymore | Indeed CMO James Whitemore Explains

    Too many marketers still think their job is to create campaigns. James Whitemore argues that's outdated. Modern CMOs aren't judged by brand awareness or clever ads. They're judged by revenue, business impact, and proving every marketing dollar actually works. The best marketers don't just tell stories. They build growth engines. AI, marketing leadership, revenue marketing, demand generation, content strategy, future of marketing. This conversation explores why the CMO role has fundamentally changed. Marketing has also shifted from long-form content to audience-first education. Companies now break research into short videos, podcasts, and role-specific insights because different audiences consume content in completely different ways. In this episode… James explains why CEOs now hire CMOs for business outcomes instead of brand campaigns, how AI is reshaping marketing teams, and why adaptability matters more than specialization. Sharp discussion on revenue marketing, content strategy, data, AI, hiring, and the evolving role of modern marketers. Key Takeaways : • James says today's CEOs hire CMOs for one reason: to drive measurable business performance and revenue, not just marketing campaigns. • The modern CMO needs a performance mindset that connects marketing directly to sales, product adoption, profitability, and business growth. • Marketing content has shifted dramatically from ebooks and long-form assets to short-form video, explainers, and podcasts. • Different audiences consume content differently. Enterprise leaders still value research reports, while recruiters and SMB customers increasingly prefer short-form educational content. • Marketing teams increasingly need adaptable people who can create content, edit, analyze performance, and manage channels instead of working in narrow silos. • James believes good judgment and good taste are becoming competitive advantages as AI floods the internet with low-quality content. • His advice to aspiring marketers is to combine creative thinking with data science, AI, experimentation, and an engineering mindset. • He encourages marketers to test, iterate, fail fast, and continuously improve instead of chasing perfect campaigns. • James jokes that one of the biggest misconceptions about becoming a CMO is that it's fun. In reality, it's one of the toughest executive roles because every investment must be justified. • Great marketing leaders don't hide failures. They openly discuss what worked, what didn't, and what the team learned. • Indeed's Hiring Lab uses real-time labor market data to help job seekers, employers, and governments understand changing skills, hiring trends, and workforce shifts. • James believes AI and data should help people navigate workforce disruption, not create fear about the future of work. Guest : James Whitemore Chief Marketing Officer at Indeed, leading global marketing strategy for one of the world's largest hiring platforms while helping employers and job seekers navigate AI, workforce transformation, and the future of hiring LinkedIN : https://www.linkedin.com/in/jwhitemore/ Connect with Us :  William Tincup LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tincup/ Ryan Leary LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanleary/ WRKdefined :  Site: http://www.wrkdefined.com TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wrkdefined LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/wrkdefined Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WRKdefined/ Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/WRKdefined Substack: https://wrkdefined.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  4. 19 avr.

    Marketing Is Not a Cost Center: Why CMO Cara Christopher Believes in Owning the Entire Growth Engine

    If marketing is still only being measured on leads, impressions, or brand awareness, the job is being played too small. This conversation gets right to the real issue: owning the full pipeline, building a tighter relationship between marketing and product, and telling stories that still sound like actual people in a market flooded with AI gunk. Cara Christopher makes the case that modern marketing has to carry more of the growth load. That means thinking beyond campaigns and taking responsibility for how demand gets created, how product value gets translated to the market, and how revenue teams stay aligned. It is less about making marketing look important, and more about making it impossible to ignore because it is tied directly to business outcomes. In this episode, we discuss the shifting landscape of modern marketing and the identity crisis facing CMOs today. They explore why marketing must transition from being a simple cost center to a strategic engine that drives business growth. Cara shares her insights on the critical relationship between marketing and product, the need for human authenticity in an AI-dominated world, and why marketers should spend more time learning from proven models rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. Key Takeaways The Identity Shift: CMOs must move away from creative-only roles and embrace their position as business strategists who own the growth engine. Revenue First: Marketing should no longer be viewed as an expense. It must be able to prove its impact on the bottom line to maintain credibility. The Product Link: A strong partnership between the CMO and the CPO is essential for aligning the product’s features with the market’s needs. AI and Authenticity: As AI makes content cheap and abundant, the value of a unique, human brand voice becomes the ultimate competitive advantage. Proven Frameworks: Success often comes from observing what works for others and adapting those strategies rather than starting from a blank page. Total Pipeline Ownership: Marketing should influence both inbound and outbound strategies to ensure a cohesive approach to revenue generation. Guest Information Name: Cara ChristopherJob Title: CMOCompany: LightcastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carajchristopher/ Connect with Us William Tincup LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tincup/ Ryan Leary LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanleary/ Show Timestamps 03:10 - Why the CMO role is undergoing an identity crisis.11:45 - Moving from a marketing cost center to a revenue driver.19:20 - Bridging the gap between the CMO and the CPO.28:15 - How to maintain brand authenticity in the age of AI.36:40 - The benefits of learning from existing frameworks vs. starting from scratch.44:55 - Why marketing needs to take ownership of the total pipeline. Connect with WRKdefined on your favorite social network Site: www.wrkdefined.comTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wrkdefinedLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/wrkdefinedFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/WRKdefined/Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/WRKdefinedSubstack: https://wrkdefined.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  5. 19 avr.

    Why Indeed CMO James Whitemore is Redefining Marketing for the New Hiring Marketplace

    The marketing leadership role is currently undergoing a significant shift in identity. It is no longer enough to just manage a brand or buy ads. The job has evolved into a strategic function that connects the dots between product development, sales, and the actual hiring outcome. For a company like Indeed, this means moving beyond the traditional job board model to become a complete hiring marketplace. If you are a marketing leader today, you are either driving these outcomes or you are being left behind in the old "awareness only" era of advertising. In this episode we sit down with James Whitemore, the CMO of Indeed, to discuss how he is leading the company through this massive transition. We talk about the move from transactional job postings to a two sided marketplace driven by data and AI. James explains why he views AI as a catalyst for efficiency rather than a compass for strategy. He also shares the thinking behind Indeed's recent shift toward narrative storytelling and why integrating marketing with product experiences is the only way to win in a selective hiring market. Key Takeaways The strategic shift from a traditional job site to a full hiring marketplace and why it matters now. Why AI should be treated as a catalyst for growth rather than a replacement for strategic direction. The move toward outcome-focused marketing where success is measured by hires made rather than clicks or impressions. How to align brand, performance, and product teams to shorten the path from candidate discovery to a successful hire. The importance of using first party data from sources like the Hiring Lab to drive brand trust and market relevance. Guest Information James Whitemore is the Chief Marketing Officer at Indeed, where he leads global marketing, communications, and the Indeed Hiring Lab. He has over 25 years of experience in strategic marketing leadership at companies like NetApp, IBM, and Sun Microsystems. LinkedIn: James Whitemore https://www.linkedin.com/in/jwhitemore/ Company: Indeed About the Host Ryan Leary is the co-founder of WRKdefined, a podcast network dedicated to redefining how we engage with work-related content. With over 20 years in the HR and recruiting space, Ryan explores the trends and technologies shaping the future of work. Website: http://www.wrkdefined.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanleary/ Show Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction to the episode and guest James Whitemore01:15 - James’s journey to becoming the CMO of Indeed03:45 - Defining the shift from a job board to a hiring marketplace07:20 - The role of AI as a catalyst for better hiring outcomes11:10 - Moving from brand awareness to brand storytelling15:35 - Why the path from discovery to hire needs to be shorter19:50 - Integrating marketing with product and sales for maximum impact24:15 - Lessons from the LeBron James national campaign28:40 - How data from the Hiring Lab informs marketing strategy33:10 - What winning looks like for a marketplace CMO in 2026 Connect with WRKdefined on your favorite social network Site: http://www.wrkdefined.com TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wrkdefined LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/wrkdefined Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WRKdefined/ Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/WRKdefined Substack: https://wrkdefined.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  6. 19 avr.

    Future of the CMO Role in 2026 and Why Influence Wins with Michelle Meehan, CMO Vetty

    The CMO role is currently in the middle of a massive identity crisis. It is not just about running ads or managing a brand anymore. It is about being the person who connects the dots between product, sales, and the customer. If you are not in the room where the big decisions happen, you are just executing someone else's plan. In a world where budgets are tighter and the digital landscape changes every week, the traditional "control" model for marketing leadership is dying. In this episode we get into the weeds with Michelle Meehan, the CMO of Vetty, to figure out how the modern CMO survives and wins in 2026. We talk about the move toward fractional leadership and why being a strategic "Swiss Army Knife" is more valuable than being a specialist. Michelle breaks down why influence matters more than headcount and what happens to your brand when marketing is left out of the room during critical business discussions. Key Takeaways The shift from full-time control to fractional influence and why it is happening now. How to build cross-departmental influence without having direct authority over every team. The strategic cost of missing out on the "room where it happens" and how to get invited back. Managing fractional teams while keeping the brand story consistent and the strategy cohesive. What winning looks like for a CMO in 2026: Balancing brand recognition with long-term market relevance. Guest Information Michelle Meehan is the CMO of Vetty, a hiring acceleration platform, and the founder of The Silver Thread. She specializes in helping organizations navigate fast-changing digital environments through strategic marketing leadership and fractional expertise. LinkedIn: Michelle Meehan Company: Vetty About the Host Ryan Leary is the co-founder of WRKdefined, a podcast network dedicated to redefining how we engage with work-related content. With over 20 years in the HR and recruiting space, Ryan explores the trends and technologies shaping the future of work. Website: WRKdefined LinkedIn: Ryan Leary Twitter: @Ryan_Leary Show Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction to the episode and guest Michelle Meehan00:44 - Michelle’s background and her role at Vetty02:00 - The analogy of gaming consoles and marketing storytelling03:30 - The future of the CMO role and fractional leadership05:35 - The strategic importance of leadership presence in decision-making08:32 - The influence vs control debate for CMOs10:52 - The role of creative storytelling in brand success14:17 - The impact of influence and alignment on organizational success19:43 - The cultural influence of storytelling and branding23:31 - The impact of fractional leadership on organizational strength30:18 - What winning looks like for a CMO in 2026 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  7. 11/12/2025

    The CMO Pivot is awesome

    It’s been a while since we launched a new podcast. Lately, we’ve been wondering about how roles have changed at work, specifically the CMO role. We’re both recovering marketers, and with the network, we tend to talk with a lot of CMOs. So, we do what we do, we create a podcast and chat about how their role has changed and is changing. This trailer is our version of us getting excited about the episodes dropping in January. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • 7 épisodes

À propos

Where the CMO role actually goes next. Not company updates. Not product roadmaps. Not 2026 planning cycles. The CMO Pivot is a straight-shot conversation with the marketing leaders who’ve lived the job before COVID, survived the chaos after it, and now see where the role is unmistakably headed. From brand to demand gen, product marketing to category creation—and now, everything AI is burning down and rebuilding in real time—the CMO seat is shifting faster than any other role in the C-Suite. This show is here to document that pivot, one brutally honest perspective at a time. No corporate PR. No talking points. No “let me tell you what our company is doing next quarter.” Just perspective. Opinion. Pattern recognition. Hard-earned experience. The stuff every marketing leader secretly wishes they had more access to. The CMO Pivot is built for Work Tech, but the insights from these conversations apply across the board. If you want to hear how real CMOs think—unfiltered, unsponsored, and unburdened by company narratives—this is our new weekly ritual. New episodes drop in January.

Informations

  • Chaîne
    WRKdefined
  • Création
    WRKdefined Podcast Network
  • Années d’activité
    2025 - 2026
  • Épisodes
    7
  • Copyright
    © All rights reserved by WRKdefined
  • Site web de l’émission
    The CMO Pivot
  • Fournisseur

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