Being Liminal Martin Dowson & Brian Hoadley

Ben Reason, one of the early pioneers of Service Design and co-founder of the boundary pushing agency Livework joins Martin and Brian for a thoughtful discussion on navigating the liminal spaces and the systemic changes that are shaping our world as we know it.  Ben's thought-leadership on designing in the Anthropocene was the stimulus for recording this conversation but it builds on the work of many other thinkers in this space.We challenge the allure of scale, examining the benefits of diversity and decentralization over a singular homogeneous approach to moving society forward. Ben references the current state of disruption - such as Florida's housing crisis and California's recurring wildfires - and the role of technology in scaling alternative systems while we also explore the advantages of devolved and decentralised power highlighting the political and human factors that drive change and the current systems that may stifle it.The conversation also spotlights the evolution of design and its profound impact on companies today. From exploring the digital mindset and the emergence of in-house design to the geopolitical influences that shape design practices, our conversation covers an array of topics - all of which are linked when you zoom out from the detail. Finally, we investigate the challenges of designing in a more life-centered way and how design can serve as an instrument in addressing these challenges.  We hope you enjoy this reflective conversation with Ben and find some useful and interesting jumping off points for your own exploration of Liminal thinking.
Livework: https://liveworkstudio.com/
Ben on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/breasy/
Design for the Anthropocene:https://www.slideshare.net/Livework/design-for-the-anthropocene-252901562
Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.

Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com
Apple:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn
Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com

In this episode Brian and Martin are in conversation with Bethany Jarroussié. Bethany is on the design leadership team at BP and her career as a design leader has seen her   take on distinctly non-design type activities.  It's a conversation that covers, how, if we're honest about the nature of   transformation, it can be very unpredictable, and with that comes a need to create psychological safety for teams. There are great examples of leaders who created the environments in which it's okay to learn while doing with the inevitable discomfort and at times crashes that can come  with this. You'll hear about Bethany's own journey into the world of work, which she describes  as not traditional.  She reflects on how that has had an impact on her as a leader and her leadership style, and her support for and the importance of social mobility. For those of you are following along with other episodes, you'll find a connection here between some of what Ola Gwozdz discusses,  That the leaders that will be able to take us through the nature of the transformations that are ahead of us - will have  had experiences themselves of having to deal with their own personal liminality.You'll find that Bethany draws deeply on this in nuanced conversation with deeply personal perspective on leadership. Bethany on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethanyjarroussie
Being Liminal Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Liminal Leaders. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.
Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn
Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com

In this episode Brian and I are in conversation with Ola Gwozdz, a listener who reached out to share her perspective and we realised we just had to bring into our exploration.  Ola helps us delve into the intricacies of identity, power dynamics, and the transformative potential of liminal spaces. 
 
She describes herself as a Data Philosopher, a concept and articulation I find fascinating – using data not just as raw information but a medium or lens to understand and interpret deeper societal and human issues, behaviours and global societal shifts.  She philosophises about the implications, meanings and narratives that data can reveal. 
 
We discuss the challenges posed by some of those global shifts like AI and climate change, Ola reflects on the feelings of lost control experienced by many in today's rapidly changing landscape. Yet, amidst the complexities, she finds a glimmer of hope in the quiet voices championing new ways of thinking. she emphasizes the significance of timing in the emergence of new ideas and the role of identity in various communities 
 
Our conversation also touches on the irony for her and for Brian & I of exploring liminal spaces, noting how such exploration can turn our own personal journey into a reflection of those very spaces. 
 
This conversation really digs into the changing nature of leadership and the power of liminality – we’re really looking forward to hearing what you got out of this conversation… Links:Ola Gwozdz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olagwozdz/
Being Liminal
Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.
Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn
Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com

Do you ever wonder how your organization can embrace change and thrive in the face of uncertainty? Join us on a journey into the world of regenerative design and leadership with our guest, Andy Thornton, the Head of Regenerative Design at the RSA - The Royal Society of Arts, Commerce, and Manufacturing. We explore design and systems thinking, discuss the importance of courage in leadership, and peel back the layers of an ever-evolving organisational landscape. Andy's expertise paints a fresh and crucial perspective on these subject matters, which is pushing the boundaries of what Brian and I are exploring in our research for Liminal Leaders.Our conversation takes us through some of the intricacies of systems thinking and its pivotal role in driving paradigm shifts. Andy references Donella Meadows' leverage points and discusses how to effectively intervene in a system for maximum impact. Andy highlights how the RSA has molded its vision through research, influential connections, and experimentation, and how design thinking can guide us through the uncertain waters of change. We dive into the challenge of getting people to leap into the unknown and how design thinking can be instrumental in navigating this complexity. As we journey further, we dissect the role and evolution of design throughout history, its impact on business and society, and its potential in shaping ethical outcomes. The conversation opens up discussions on the challenges and opportunities in regenerative business, and how design can be used to alter narratives for a more prospering society. This episode concludes with some thought-provoking discussions on the importance of leadership in driving change and stepping into the unknown. So, gear up for an enlightening discourse on regenerative business models and systems thinking that promises to challenge and stretch your perspective on leadership and design.
Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.

Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn
Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com

"The One where Brian and Martin realise they haven't been very 'liminal' in their approach to researching liminality"In response to both Listener and Guest feedback as well as some of our own reflection on what we've learnt so far from our guests  - this episode is a moment for us to reflect on our need to pivot our approach to the research and exploration that we are doing.  We said we would do this in the open and part of that means recognising and leaning into when you might have been about to head off in the wrong direction.  Ahead of the forthcoming episodes with Andy Thornton from the RSA and Ola Gwozdz - Data Philosopher, we discuss how we've had to shift our perspective on where to take the podcast next in order to stay true to our exploration of leadership in Liminal Spaces.  Far from our initial framing of  liminality in business transformation alone, this episode discusses our need to recognise and explore first of all  that we all traverse through liminal phases at different junctures of our lives. As we open up about this newfound perspective, the conversation takes a interesting turn  where we discuss the constraints that structures can impose, hindering decision-making and suppressing innovation. Change is a constant, but navigating it can be a herculean task. This episode forces us to look at a fresh approach to change, as we delve into 'abundant edges' and how those who thrive amidst chaos are often the most adaptable to new insights. We also indulge ourselves with engging parallels between Isaac Asimov's Foundation series and our  conversations with Andy from the RSA. Wrapping up the  episode, we broach the subject of success metrics and their potential misalignment. Is exceeding expectations always a success? Or does true transformation originate from the margins? We explore these thought-provoking questions, and share our take on the need for a paradigm shift in our thinking. Hopefully this sets a transitional scene for the episodes yet to come.  As always we'd welcome your feedback.
Being Liminal Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.Podcast Website: http://www.beingliminal.com/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020Martin Dowson on LinkedInBrian Hoadley on LinkedIn


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com

How do you leverage a moment of potential transformation?  How do you support fundamental change in an organisation that sees the need but doesn't know how to realise it? In our discussion with Professor Clive Grinyer, Head of Service Design at the Royal College of Art, we challenge the notion that organisations don't want to change and discuss how design can be a crucial catalyst for business transformation. We delve into the mindset gap that executive leadership are asking for help to bridge, and how the RCA is training service designers of the future to become the catalyst for change in those organisations.Ever wondered about the integral role of service design in strategic change? Our conversation with Clive takes you on a journey tracing the evolution of service design from product design, marketing, and customer experience. Discover how design influences human decision-making and how crucial tools like visualization, experimentation, and prototyping shape strategic changes. We emphasize how important it is for designers to have a champion to help position design further upstream in the process.Moving towards the future of design and design education, we confront the British culture's fear of creativity and its implications for potential design leaders. We also address a growing concern - the overly production level focus of Design, and yet, the significant yet unmeasured impact they can potentially have on businesses. Join us for a session filled with thought-provoking insights - a must-listen for anyone interested in design, leadership, and business transformation.To find out more about the RCA and the Service Design course Clive leads:https://www.rcaservicedesign.com/To find out more about Clive, his experience and how to contact him:https://www.clivegrinyer.com/
Being Liminal Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.Podcast Website: http://www.beingliminal.com/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020Martin Dowson on LinkedInBrian Hoadley on LinkedIn


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com