This episode is sponsored by NURP NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required. Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more. Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice. —-------------------------- In this episode of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle welcomes Reverend Dr. Anastasia Holman, Director of Spiritual Care Education at Indiana University Health and faculty at IU School of Medicine. Released just before Tisha B’Av, the conversation centers on lament the ancient practice of voicing deep pain, brokenness, and protest and its relevance to modern medical practice. Drawing from Jewish, Christian, Islamic, and Black Church traditions, they discuss how laments are prayers that burst from wounds, why medical professionals hear them daily (often subtly), and how slowing down to truly listen, see, and notice patients’ existential distress can open pathways to deeper healing. Reverend Holman shares insights on the role of memory and the senses in connecting across differences, practical ways clinicians can show they’ve heard a patient’s cry (including the power of 40 seconds of compassion), and the integration of chaplaincy with medical care. The discussion weaves personal stories from the COVID era, references to The Chaplain and the Doctor, and reflections on Tisha B’Av and the Book of Lamentations, emphasizing that lament is the beginning of healing and transformation, for individuals, communities, and the practice of medicine itself. Top 3 Takeaways Laments Are Prayers from Wounds: They are soul cries of pain, “why me?”, grief, and existential questioning that patients bring into clinical encounters. Recognizing them as such allows clinicians to address the full person, body, emotion, and spirit. Listening Creates Healing Space: Slowing down, active listening, repeating back what you hear, and simply making space for the patient’s story (even for ~40 seconds) helps people feel seen and heard, which improves trust, adherence, and clinical outcomes. All Humanity Has Suffered: Tapping into our own experiences of grief enables deeper connection across faith, culture, and background. Lament can unite rather than divide and is a foundational step toward individual and communal transformation. Resource Mentioned: The Unimaginable Trauma and Resillence of the People of Gaza https://time.com/article/2026/07/14/trauma-resilience-gaza-james-gordon-essay Song Lyrics: Hebrew Version: אין מילים, כי אין אבל באבל אין בקיאות בבכי, לשכול אין שכל בדמעון אין לחפש שום הגיון באובדן אין מה לשאול אין לפקפק בסבל בשום שפה אין אבל באבל בבור אין מים, מתים מצמאון תחת השיח בלב הישימון נעקד על ראש ההר, הביאו אש ומאכלת אשה ושפחתה בוכות בקול אחד לילד בלב האם אין אבל באבל English Translation: There are no words; there is no “but” in bereavement No expertise in weeping, no wisdom in mourning In tears we don’t seek sense In loss we don’t ask, we don’t pick apart suffering There is no “but” in bereavement – in any language In the pit, there is no water, only thirst Under the bush, in the heart of the desert Bound on the mountain top, they brought the fire, and the knife A woman and her maidservant weep in one voice for the boy In the mother’s heart, there is no “but” in bereavement About the Show: Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship. "Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul." About the Guest Reverend Dr. Anastasia Holman is the Director of Spiritual Care Education at Indiana University Health and faculty at Indiana University School of Medicine. She co-leads programs integrating spirituality and medicine, including Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) and scholarly concentrations for medical students. With a womanist lens and deep experience in interfaith collaboration, she trains chaplains and helps medical professionals incorporate lament and spiritual care into patient encounters. About the Host: Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being. He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients. 🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com 🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a 📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen 📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
