Between Two Psychs with Dr Adam McCartney and Mike Lane

Dr Adam McCartney and Mike Lane
  • 5.0 (2)
  • Education for Kids
  • Updated weekly

In this podcast Adam and Mike address all your education questions. They show the power of thinking psychologically can have on resolving everyday issues within education, learning and in raising happy children.

  1. Ep. 29 - How to fix Experts At Hand

    2 days ago

    Ep. 29 - How to fix Experts At Hand

    In this episode, we explore one of the biggest questions emerging from the proposed S.E.N.D reforms: have we become too focused on assessments, reports, diagnoses, and labels, while overlooking the value of professional conversations? We discuss the growing focus on consultation within the Experts at Hand model and what this shift could mean for schools, educational psychologists, and wider S.E.N.D support services. As systems move towards greater collaboration, we examine how consultation can help professionals understand challenges, develop solutions, and empower the adults who support children every day. Throughout the conversation, we unpack what consultation actually is and why it is much more than simply having a discussion. We also explore consultation frameworks, including PIMS and the SWAIR model, and how systemic thinking can help schools look beyond individual needs. Alongside this, we examine the differences between consultation, supervision, and coaching, and consider how these approaches may support future models of inclusion and multi-agency working. Ultimately, we reflect on how collaboration, shared expertise, and professional conversations can help build confidence, strengthen practice, and improve outcomes for children. In This Episode, We Explore What the Experts at Hand approach could mean for schools and SEND services.Why consultation is more than just a conversation.How consultation can empower teachers and school staff.The role of educational psychologists within emerging SEND reforms.The PIMS and SWAIR consultation models.The differences between consultation, supervision, and coaching.Why shared expertise and multi-agency working are essential for supporting children.Why This Episode Matters As S.E.N.D systems continue to evolve, schools are increasingly being encouraged to build capacity through collaboration rather than relying solely on assessment-led approaches. This episode explores how consultation can support inclusion by bringing together expertise from schools and professional networks, helping staff develop confidence, practical solutions, and stronger systems of support. Whether you're a teacher, school leader, educational psychologist, SENCO, therapist, or parent, this episode offers valuable insights into the role consultation may play in the future of S.E.N.D and inclusive practice. 🎧 Listen now to discover why some of the most powerful support for children may begin with the right conversation. Join the Conversation What are your thoughts on consultation-based approaches? How can schools balance assessment, intervention, and collaboration? Have consultation approaches helped improve inclusion in your setting? Share your thoughts and experiences; we'd love to hear from you. Episode Sponsor This episode of Between Two Psychs is proudly sponsored by Sanctuary Personnel. As a specialist recruitment partner across psychology services, education, social care, and healthcare, Sanctuary Personnel is dedicated to connecting talented professionals with organisations that truly value expertise. Their consultative approach means they understand the sectors they serve and the challenges faced by professionals across the UK. If you're looking to strengthen your team or elevate your own career, visit sanctuarypersonnel.com.You can also reach out directly to Kamruz Zaman at Kamruz Zaman - Sanctuary Personnel and Suzi Couszins at Suzi Couszins - Sanctuary Personnel Connect with Mike Lane Website: ridgewaypsychology.co.ukLinkedIn: michael-lane Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartneyWebsite: dradammccartney.comYouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    30 min
  2. Ep. 28 - Why Are School Exclusions Rising When Behaviour Policies Are Clear?

    16 Jun

    Ep. 28 - Why Are School Exclusions Rising When Behaviour Policies Are Clear?

    In this episode, I explore a question that many schools are grappling with: Why are exclusions continuing to rise despite behaviour policies becoming clearer and more structured than ever before? Drawing on my experience as an Educational Psychologist, I examine the growing reliance on consequence-driven behaviour systems and explore why these approaches often fail to create lasting change. While clear expectations and boundaries have their place, behaviour does not happen in isolation. Children's experiences of school are shaped by relationships, emotional regulation, and their sense of belonging. Throughout the episode, I discuss how behaviour is often viewed as the problem itself rather than a signal that something deeper may be happening. I explore the impact of sensory, emotional, and social development on a child's ability to regulate their behaviour, particularly for neurodiverse young people navigating busy and demanding school environments. I also share practical alternatives that schools can use to strengthen relationships, improve accountability, and reduce conflict. From restorative approaches to proactive regulation strategies, this episode focuses on creating school cultures where young people feel seen, supported, and understood. Ultimately, this episode challenges us to consider whether behaviour policies alone can solve behaviour challenges, or whether meaningful relationships remain the most powerful tool we have. In This Episode, I Explore Why exclusions continue to rise despite increasingly strict behaviour policies.The difference between consequence-driven systems and relational approaches.How sensory, language, emotional, and cognitive development influence behaviour.Why neurodiverse pupils may find school environments particularly overwhelming.The role relationships play in helping young people regulate emotions.How restorative approaches can create genuine accountability and repair harm.Why This Episode Matters Across education, schools are facing increasing challenges around behaviour, attendance, wellbeing and exclusion. While many systems focus on consequences and compliance, this episode explores a different perspective: that behaviour is deeply connected to relationships, emotional safety, and a child's experience of belonging. Understanding what sits beneath behaviour can help schools move beyond simply managing incidents and towards creating environments where young people are more able to engage, regulate, and succeed. If you're a teacher, school leader, educational psychologist, or parent, this episode offers practical insights into how relationships can become a powerful foundation for both behaviour and learning. 🎧 Listen now and discover why the strongest behaviour strategy may not be a policy at all but the relationships we build every day. Join the Conversation What are your thoughts on behaviour policies and exclusions?Have you seen relational approaches make a difference in your school or setting? Share your thoughts and experiences. we'd love to hear from you. Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartneyWebsite: dradammccartney.comYouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    24 min
  3. Ep. 27 - The Power of Lesson Study: Making Inclusion Work Through Collaboration

    9 Jun

    Ep. 27 - The Power of Lesson Study: Making Inclusion Work Through Collaboration

    In this episode, I explore one of the most effective approaches I use when working with schools: Lesson Study for Assessment. Originally developed in Japan, lesson study offers a collaborative framework that brings together teachers, educational psychologists, and school leaders to design, observe, evaluate, and refine teaching in a way that benefits all learners. Rather than relying on expert-driven recommendations, this approach places psychology and pedagogy side by side, creating a shared process of inquiry and problem-solving. Through real examples from my own practice, I explore how lesson study can strengthen inclusion, support pupils with additional needs, and help schools create learning experiences that are both meaningful and engaging. I discuss how collaboration between professionals can lead to better outcomes for children, while also giving teachers greater ownership of the learning process. A key theme throughout the episode is that effective support comes from psychology and pedagogy working together. When professionals bring different perspectives to the same challenge, they are better able to understand children's needs, build on their strengths, and create opportunities for genuine participation and success. Ultimately, this episode is about creating classrooms where every child feels valued, included and able to thrive. In This Episode, I Explore What Lesson Study for Assessment is and where it originated.How educational psychologists, teachers, and school leaders can work collaboratively to improve learning.Why psychology and pedagogy should be viewed as complementary disciplines.How lesson study can support inclusion without becoming tokenistic.Ways to use peer relationships and collaboration to strengthen learning outcomes.How schools can develop meaningful and measurable targets for pupils with additional needs.Why This Episode Matters As schools work to create more inclusive learning environments, collaboration has never been more important. Lesson Study for Assessment provides a practical way for teachers, psychologists, and school leaders to work together, better understand pupils' needs, and design learning that supports everyone. When professionals think and plan together, children are more likely to feel included, valued, and able to succeed. 🎧 Listen now and discover how psychology and pedagogy can work together to create better learning opportunities for every child. Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartneyWebsite: dradammccartney.comYouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    20 min
  4. Ep. 26 - From Crisis to Connection

    26 May

    Ep. 26 - From Crisis to Connection

    In this episode, we sit down with teaching SENCO Tom Hodgson to explore why relationships sit at the heart of successful inclusion and how emotionally attuned practice can completely change a child’s journey in school. Drawing on real classroom experience, we reflect on the emotional demands of supporting children with complex needs and why connection must come before correction. Through a powerful case study, we unpack how one pupil moved from the brink of permanent exclusion to full integration through co-regulation, consistency, and a strong team around the child. Together, we discuss why meaningful relationships, emotional literacy, and shared staff values are essential for long-term change in schools. In This Episode, We Discuss Why relationships must come before behaviour strategiesHow co-regulation helps prevent escalationA real case study from exclusion risk to full inclusionThe power of empathy, curiosity, and emotional attunementBuilding emotional literacy and helping children name feelingsWhy consistency across adults changes outcomesSupporting staff while working with complex pupilsHow everyday interactions become meaningful interventionsWhy This Episode Matters This conversation invites educators to rethink behaviour through the lens of connection and safety. When children feel understood and supported by consistent adults, meaningful progress becomes possible both emotionally and academically. It also highlights the emotional load educators carry and why reflective practice, shared training, and strong professional relationships are essential for sustainable, inclusive education. Connect with Mike Lane Website: ridgewaypsychology.co.uk LinkedIn: michael-lane Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartney Website: dradammccartney.com YouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    43 min
  5. Ep. 25 - How to Fix Inclusion

    19 May

    Ep. 25 - How to Fix Inclusion

    In this episode, I explore something that quietly shapes almost every school setting, why collaboration between professionals can feel so difficult, even when everyone around the table genuinely wants to help. Whether it’s a SENCO, pastoral lead, educational psychologist, speech and language therapist, autism specialist, or school leader, meetings often begin with good intentions but end with uncertainty. Everyone leaves believing something slightly different was agreed, and the child at the centre of the conversation can easily get lost within the process. Drawing on my own research into collaborative working around autistic children at risk of exclusion, I explore why this happens and what schools can do differently. One of the key themes throughout the episode is that tension in meetings is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, when professionals see a child through different lenses, behaviour, anxiety, communication, trauma, sensory needs, relationships, that complexity is often a sign that meaningful thinking is happening. I also discuss how schools can move beyond rushed problem-solving and instead create space for deeper understanding. Because the best collaborative teams do not race toward solutions. This explores the importance of understanding professional roles properly. Too often, professionals work alongside one another without fully understanding the expertise each person brings. When that understanding improves, collaboration becomes less defensive and more productive. Alongside this, I reflect on the emotional side of professional disagreement, why psychological safety matters in meetings, and how respectful challenge can strengthen decision-making rather than damage relationships. Ultimately, this episode is about leadership, not leadership as having all the answers, but leadership as creating the conditions where people can think well together in service of children. In This Episode, I Explore Why collaboration in schools is often harder than it appears.How different professionals interpret the same child in different ways.Why slowing meetings down can improve outcomes.How respectful disagreement strengthens collaborative thinking.How school leaders can keep the child central during complex discussions.Why This Episode Matters In education, we often focus heavily on outcomes, but far less on the process that gets us there. This is a reminder that effective collaboration is not about everyone agreeing immediately. It is about professionals being willing to stay curious, tolerate complexity, and build shared understanding together. Because when adults think better together, children are far less likely to fall through the cracks. Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartneyWebsite: dradammccartney.comYouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    17 min
  6. Ep. 24 - Talking about the Real Stuff!

    12 May

    Ep. 24 - Talking about the Real Stuff!

    In this episode, we explore the realities many teachers face when supporting children with emerging autistic traits in mainstream classrooms, particularly in the early years, where needs are still being understood. The conversation centres around a reception teacher supporting a young child who struggles with communication, social interaction, routines, and engagement during classroom activities. Rather than focusing purely on behaviour, the episode looks deeper at development, asking what foundational skills may still need support before formal learning can truly begin. A key part of the discussion explores cause and effect, the early developmental understanding that “if I do this, something happens.” Mike and Adam unpack why this matters so much for communication, play, attention, and learning, especially for children who may experience the world very differently through sensory processing and social communication challenges. Its explores why play-based learning remains so important, particularly for children who are not yet ready for more formal teaching approaches. Instead of expecting children to immediately adapt to classroom structures, the conversation highlights the value of entering the child’s world first and building learning from there. Alongside this, there’s an honest reflection on the pressures teachers face. Managing large class sizes, differentiation and increasingly complex needs can feel overwhelming, especially when resources and support staff are limited. Importantly, this episode is not about “fixing” children. It’s about understanding development, adapting approaches and helping teachers find meaningful ways to support progress through curiosity, structure and connection. In This Episode, We Discuss What schools can sometimes miss when supporting autistic childrenWhy behaviour is often linked to development, not defianceThe importance of cause and effect in early learningHow sensory experiences can impact communication and engagementWhy play-based learning remains essential in the early yearsThe role of executive functioning in preparing children for formal learningWhy This Episode Matters Many teachers are trying to meet increasingly diverse needs without always having the time, training, or resources they need. This episode offers a compassionate and practical discussion about understanding children developmentally rather than simply behaviourally. It’s a reminder that meaningful progress often starts with understanding where a child truly is, rather than where we expect them to be. Connect with Mike Lane Website: ridgewaypsychology.co.ukLinkedIn: Michael Lane Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartneyWebsite: dradammccartney.comYouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    30 min
  7. Ep. 23 - Why Key Stage 3 Transitions Matter More Than We Think

    5 May

    Ep. 23 - Why Key Stage 3 Transitions Matter More Than We Think

    The transition into Key Stage 3 is often described as a fresh start, but for many young people, it’s where things quietly begin to unravel. In this episode of Between Two Psychs, we explore why the move from primary to secondary school can be such a vulnerable point, particularly for students who sit on the margins. We unpack the steady rise in exclusions between Years 7 and 9 and ask a deeper question: what does this transition feel like psychologically for children, and what are schools unintentionally missing? We talk about the shift from one secure relationship to many, from nurture to independence, and from feeling known to feeling lost in a much bigger system. Along the way, we explore concepts like learned helplessness, acceptance, autonomy, and happiness and why behaviour is often a signal of unmet needs rather than defiance. This is a conversation about connection, belonging and helping young people develop a sense of direction inside a system that can feel overwhelming. In this episode, we discuss: Why exclusions rise so sharply during Key Stage 3The psychological impact of moving from one key adult to manyHow independence, when introduced too quickly, can increase distressLearned helplessness and its link to disengagement and EBSAWhy “promoting happiness” may be more useful than “reducing exclusions”The role of acceptance, shared identity, and belonging in student wellbeingWhy some students thrive in transition while others struggleStarting transition work earlier, including the role of Year 5Evidence-based supports like Friends for Life and Coping CatUsing thoughts-feelings-behaviour models to support reflection and goal-settingCommunity-focused goals versus purely academic targetsHow small-group and coaching conversations can prevent exclusionWhy teacher reflection, supervision and support matter just as much as student interventionWhy This Episode Matters Key Stage 3 is often the most overlooked phase in education but it’s where identity, belonging, and disengagement begin to crystallise. This episode invites educators, leaders and psychologists to look beyond behaviour and systems, and instead focus on acceptance, connection, and purpose. When young people can see where they fit, feel supported rather than dropped, and are helped to develop their own internal goals, school becomes something they can stay connected to not something they need to escape from. Because behaviour is rarely about refusal.More often, it’s about not feeling seen, safe, or accepted. Connect with Mike Lane Website: ridgewaypsychology.co.ukLinkedIn: Michael Lane Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartneyWebsite: dradammccartney.comYouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    29 min
  8. Ep. 22 - ADHD: Over diagnosed?

    28 Apr

    Ep. 22 - ADHD: Over diagnosed?

    In this episode, I explore a question that keeps coming up in education: Is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder over diagnosed or are we missing something deeper? To make sense of that, I take a step back into the history of mental health and how diagnosis became so focused on criteria and checklists. While systems like the DSM brought structure, they also shaped how we interpret behaviour, sometimes reducing complex experiences into a set of symptoms. I also touch on the Rosenhan study, which challenged how reliable those diagnoses can be and how much of a role perception plays. From there, the focus shifts to what this looks like in real life. When a child presents with inattention, impulsivity, or hyperactivity, it’s easy to label it. But it’s more useful to ask what’s sitting underneath. Research into adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) shows how much a child’s environment and experiences can shape how they behave and engage. There’s a biological side too, particularly around dopamine and regulation, but even that connects back to the environment. The level of stimulation children are exposed to today plays a big role in how they focus and respond. So where does that leave us? For me, it comes back to relationships. Whether there’s a diagnosis or not, children need to feel safe, understood, and connected. Small, consistent actions in the classroom can make a bigger difference than we often realise. In This Episode, I Explore How the ADHD diagnosis has evolved.Why behaviour might reflect experience, not just symptoms.The impact of trauma and environment on attention.How dopamine and stimulation affect learning.Why relationships are key, with or without a diagnosis.Why This Episode Matters This isn’t about dismissing ADHD. It’s about widening the lens. When we look beyond the label, we’re more likely to respond with curiosity rather than judgment and that’s where meaningful support begins. Connect with Me Instagram: @‌dradammcartneyWebsite: dradammccartney.comYouTube: @‌Dr.AdamMcCartney

    23 min
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5
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About

In this podcast Adam and Mike address all your education questions. They show the power of thinking psychologically can have on resolving everyday issues within education, learning and in raising happy children.

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