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Two by Two

The Ken

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

  1. Ranking TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCL: Who thrives and who survives in the AI era?

    4 ΗΜ. ΠΡΙΝ • THE KEN PREMIUM ΜΌΝΟ

    Ranking TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCL: Who thrives and who survives in the AI era?

    Last week, nearly ₹2 lakh crore vanished from Indian IT stocks in just four days. A big reason was Anthropic's new product, Claude Cowork. Suddenly investors were confronted with an unsettling reality: what if the work Indian IT has long depended on is now the easiest to automate? For almost 20 years, India's IT giants have been unstoppable compounding machines. They built empires worth hundreds of billions of dollars by doing one thing very well: renting out smart people by the hour to write code and run technology for Western clients. But when code starts to write itself, what happens to these companies? Conversations about IT services usually lump all these firms together, as if they are the same business with different logos. In this episode, we break them apart. We ask a simple but uncomfortable question: in an AI-first world, who thrives and who gets left behind? We take five of the biggest IT services firms in India's orbit—TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCL Tech and Cognizant—and rank them on who is best placed right now for what's coming next. Spoiler: the answer is not what the last 20 years of market-cap tables would suggest. To do this, we brought in two people who have lived this industry from the inside. Krishnakumar Natarajan ( https://in.linkedin.com/in/krishnakumarnatarajan ) co-founded Mindtree in 1999 and built it into a multi-billion dollar global IT services firm. He later chaired NASSCOM and now runs Mela Ventures, where he backs early-stage deep tech and enterprise startups. Vivek Kant ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/vivekkant/ ) spent over two decades in IT services across Tech Mahindra and Cognizant, then moved to the other side of the table as CTO at Bajaj Markets and as an advisor at Boston Consulting Group. He still codes 3-4 hours a day using AI. You can check out his blogs here ( https://vivekkant.substack.com/ ). The board is set. The King, the Rook, the Knight, and the Bishop. The question is: who makes the first move? _________ This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    1 ώ. 18 λ.
  2. Who is the entry-level software engineer now?

    5 ΦΕΒ • THE KEN PREMIUM ΜΌΝΟ

    Who is the entry-level software engineer now?

    Software engineering as we knew it is over and the entry-level job has vanished. So what do you tell someone graduating today? This question splits even the experts. Arnav Gupta ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/arnavgupta/?skipRedirect=true ), Engineering Manager at Meta and co-founder of Coding Blocks, argues the knowledge must compress. He says that the future belongs to those who adapt fast and embrace the AI tools. Meanwhile Abhay Saraf ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhay-saraf-5ba9a670/ ), Director at Bushel Technologies and ex-Microsoft, pushes back hard. He believes you cannot build a calculator and stop teaching multiplication. The fundamentals matter more than ever, even if it takes longer to learn them. Together with co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rahel Philipose, they break down what skills actually matter now, why typing still beats voice coding, and whether engineering college should be two years or ten. The answers might surprise you. _____ Similar episode: Episode 6 Is the golden era of the (software) engineer over? ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/is-the-golden-era-of-the-software-engineer-over/ ) This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ).

    1 ώ. 20 λ.
  3. PhonePe dominates payments but loses money. Now what?

    29 ΙΑΝ • THE KEN PREMIUM ΜΌΝΟ

    PhonePe dominates payments but loses money. Now what?

    PhonePe leads nearly half of India's UPI transactions, but as it gears up for a $1.3 billion IPO, a tough question looms: can a company built to defend its lead ever learn to make real profit? In this episode, Rohin Dharmakumar argues that PhonePe's dominance might actually be a strategic trap. With zero-margin transactions and shifting regulations, the next ten years cannot look like the last. To win, PhonePe must decide whether it's willing to risk its crown to become a bold market creator. Will it evolve into an aggressive disruptor like Zomato, or remain a safe, boring utility like PayPal? Joining co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan is Arundhati Ramanathan, Deputy Editor at The Ken and resident fintech expert. Arundhati recently published a story on January 26 titled 'Should PhonePe be worth more than Paytm's $7.9B?' which dives deep into the company's valuation puzzle. We also introduce a new voice to the 2x2 team: Rahel Philipose joins as our third co-host to help unravel the cultural and strategic shifts required for PhonePe's survival. This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ). ---------- Additional resources: - Platform ambitions: The story of how Ispirit lost its true north ( https://the-ken.com/story/platform-ambitions-story-ispirt-lost-true-north/ ) by Rohin Dharmakumar - The unlikely story of BHIM, the upsetter of plans ( https://the-ken.com/story/unlikely-story-of-bhim/ ) by Arundhati Ramanathan - Naryana Health's Viren Shetty on learning 'how much insurance is about selling and how little about health' ( https://the-ken.com/story/narayana-healths-viren-shetty-on-learning-how-much-insurance-is-about-selling-and-how-little-about-health/ ) by Seema Singh - Two by Two episode 1: Will Flipkart become Phonepe before Phonepe becomes flipkart? ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/will-flipkart-become-phonepe-before-phonepe-becomes-flipkart/ )

    1 ώ. 7 λ.
  4. With Noice, Swiggy picks the 3rd path in quick commerce

    22 ΙΑΝ • THE KEN PREMIUM ΜΌΝΟ

    With Noice, Swiggy picks the 3rd path in quick commerce

    Swiggy has launched Noice, a private label brand that's popping up across categories on Instamart. But is this a genuine brand-building play or just another experiment destined for Swiggy's product graveyard? In this episode, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Sandeep Nair ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeepnairtvpm/ ), co-founder of brand strategy consultancy David & Who and former Swiggy marketing director, and Mrunmayi Oke ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrunmayi-oke/?originalSubdomain=in ), SVP of Strategy at Zilo and former head of business at Dunzo. Together, they debate whether Noice is Swiggy's answer to Kirkland or closer to Amazon Solimo with ‘truck-style’ packaging. The conversation explores short-term performance metrics and long-term brand building, why most private labels fail, what makes retailers like Costco and Aldi succeed, and whether Swiggy has the organisational discipline to stick with this strategy. They also discuss the economics of private labels and what it takes to build a brand that consumers actually trust. ____ This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ). ____ Additional reading: 1. Swiggy used to be a playground for innovation. Now, it’s a graveyard ( https://the-ken.com/story/swiggy-used-to-be-a-playground-for-innovation-now-its-a-graveyard/?searchTerm=swiggy%20product%20graveyard&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page ) by Gaurav Bagur 2. Pepsi’s biggest bottler is pouring more cola to fight Reliance’s Campa ( https://the-ken.com/story/pepsis-biggest-bottler-is-pouring-more-cola-to-fight-reliances-campa/?searchTerm=campa&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page ) by Aakriti Bhalla 3. Two by Two episode 5- Swiggy needs to reclaim its past glory ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/swiggy-needs-to-reclaim-its-past-glory/ ) 4. Two by Two episode 26- Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" cafe ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/zomato-swiggy-and-the-rise-of-the-10-minute-dark-cafe/ ) 5. Two by Two episode 45- Are we seeing the unbundling of quick commerce? ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/are-we-seeing-the-unbundling-of-quick-commerce/ ) 6. Two by Two episode 72- Can Urban Company avoid BigBasket’s fate? ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/can-urban-company-avoid-bigbaskets-fate/ )

    1 ώ. 21 λ.
  5. Can Urban Company avoid BigBasket’s fate?

    15 ΙΑΝ

    Can Urban Company avoid BigBasket’s fate?

    Urban Company has spent years building trust as the go-to platform for home services. But a new generation of founders is now using the Zepto playbook to target its most profitable segments. On Two by Two this week, Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Arpit Agarwal, a partner at Blume Ventures. The conversation explores the wedge strategy: how specialized startups like Snabbit and Dazzl are driving deep into specific categories like household help and beauty services. Arpit explains why horizontal giants are often wired like sloths, making it difficult for them to stay nimble when a fast moving dragonfly startup attacks a single category. The hosts also discuss the operational shift from scheduled slots to instant supply. They look at how these new players are treating human labor as an engineering problem, using heat maps and demand prediction to promise services in minutes. But can you actually standardize a home cleaning or a cooking service without losing quality? It is a deep dive into the battle for your living room and whether efficiency will eventually take over brand loyalty._______ This episode of was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com. We’d love to hear from you.

    1 ώ. 13 λ.
  6. How can restaurants scale sustainably?

    8 ΙΑΝ

    How can restaurants scale sustainably?

    Running a successful restaurant is hard. Scaling one without losing what made it special is even harder. This week on Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar talk to two people who are deep in that fight: Sameer Seth, founder and CEO of Hunger Inc. Hospitality (The Bombay Canteen, O Pedro, Veronica's, Papa's, Bombay Sweet Shop), and Karan Kapur, Executive Director of K Hospitality Group (Copper Chimney, Bombay Brasserie, The Irish House). The conversation starts with why restaurants are so difficult to scale. Real estate is expensive and hard to find. Tastes change across cities as India isn't one market, it's several. And unlike other businesses, restaurants have to produce and serve the product at the exact same moment, which makes consistency brutal. Sameer and Karan walk through the transition every restaurateur has to make: from artist (creating the magic of the first restaurant) to scientist (building systems that let you do it again and again without losing the soul). They talk about diversification and why Sameer kept all his brands in Mumbai while expanding formats. Also why Karan thinks the big inflection point won't come until India's GDP per capita hits $5,000, which he estimates will be around 2032. They then discuss micro-dining. Pappas serves just 12 people, four times a week, and it works because Veronica's next door serves 300 and pays the rent. They talk about why Bombay Sweet Shop started as a Willy Wonka-style mithai factory. And they tackle the bigger question in the end: in an age where everything comes to your door in 10 minutes, what will keep people going out to restaurants? ______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com or comment below.

    1 ώ. 11 λ.
  7. 2025 Year-end special

    25/12/2025

    2025 Year-end special

    2025 is done. Forty-eight episodes. Hundreds of guests. Endless banter between Rohin and Praveen. This year, Two by Two covered stories from Bengaluru to the world including business, tech, and everything in between. We didn't just stick to the usual. We asked about people, trends, and the things others weren't paying attention to. We brought on guests who didn't rehearse their answers and tried to make sense of things as they happened. Some episodes turned out to be prescient. Some were messy. Some sparked arguments in our inbox. All of them tried to do what we set out to do: spot hidden connections, ask unasked questions, and figure out what's really going on. This final episode is Rohin looking back at six moments from the year with clips from conversations that stood out. Between each one, he adds context and some behind-the-scenes perspective on why it mattered. Here are the episodes featured: Episode 26: Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" caféEpisode 31: Airtel fights spammers. And Truecaller's business modelEpisode 47: Who broke Bengaluru, and how do we fix our cities?Episode 50: In an AI age, India does not have an open source strategyEpisode 51: The invisible whale that capsized India's leaky options boatsEpisode 66: What will bring ambition back from the dead?To everyone who listened, argued with us, sent guest suggestions, or just stuck around, thank you. Next year, we're coming back with everything that makes Two by Two what it is, but bigger and better. Maybe even a few surprises. Stay tuned. There won't be an episode next Thursday. We will return on January 8th, 2026. See you in the new year.________ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. If you have suggestions for guests, episodes or even changes we could make. Please write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com or comment below.

    55 λεπτά
  8. 60 seconds for every 2025 episode

    18/12/2025

    60 seconds for every 2025 episode

    As we try to wind down this year, Rohin and Praveen do something they’ve never done before: go through every single episode they recorded this year. All 48 of them. In 60 minutes. The rules were simple. Each host had 10 points to build their personal top 10 list for the year. No take-backs, and no pre-discussion. It was a completely live, vibe-based recording where they figured it out as they went. What follows is a rapid-fire sprint through the year. From Amazon India’s struggles to the electric car slowdown, from B-school placements to the rise of quick commerce dark stores, and from Razorpay versus Juspay to the chaos of concert infrastructure in India. They cover it all—the hits, the misses, the prescient calls, and the episodes they wish had gone differently. Along the way, they debate whether episodes were too speculative, too early, or just not memorable enough. By the end, they’re locked in a tight race with only five episodes left and one point each remaining. Because it wouldn't be Two by Two without a matrix, we plotted the results of their debate. Take a look at the graphic to see which episodes they both loved (the green zone) versus their personal favourites. It is chaotic, nostalgic, and a perfect preview of what 2025 looked like through the lens of Two by Two. ______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. With 48 episodes in the books, this is the perfect starting point for anyone looking to catch up on the defining business stories of 2025. If you liked this sprint through the year, please share it with someone who loves a good deep dive. Have your own "vibe-based" arguments about our list? We’re all ears. Reach out at twobytwo@the-ken.com or leave a comment.

    55 λεπτά
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The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

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    The Ken
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    2024 - 2026
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    122
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    © (c) 2024 The Ken
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