The Last Tranche

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Podcast from the Creditflux editorial team discussing global credit funds and CLOs.

  1. 13/11/2024

    The Last Tranche with Oaktree's Jones: why CLO equity is attractive again

    Oaktree's Madelaine Jones discusses why investors are finding CLO equity more attractive. CLO issuance is booming due to a return of investors to the market. Many are drawn to CLO equity for its fast cash distribution nature that avoids the J-curve effect of private equity investments.

    24 min

  2. 09/05/2024

    The Last Tranche with YMER's Warzynski: we like primary equity again

    In this episode of the Last Tranche, Hubert Warzynski, Partner and Co-founder of Scandinavian CLO investor YMER talks about why like primary European equity again, but only for a handful of managers.

    16 min

  3. 02/04/2024

    The Last Tranche with JP Morgan's Ferris: new managers should focus on equity

    In this episode of the Last Tranche, Christine Ferris, JP Morgan's Global Head of CLO Primary talks about why she loves working with debut managers, despite the extra challenges they face. #CLO

    25 min

  4. 31/01/2024

    The Last Tranche with Octagon's Lam: CLO equity makes sense again

    In this episode of The Last Tranche Gretchen Lam, CEO of Octagon Credit Investors, discusses whether investing in third-party CLO equity makes sense again.

    19 min

  5. 11/10/2023

    The Last Tranche with New Mountain's Kline and Moshiri

    The Last Tranche with New Mountain's Kline and Moshiri: we have more flexibility than a typical CLO around industry selection In this episode of the Last Tranche, John Kline and Cyrus Moshiri from New Mountain Capital discuss the innovative rated feeder fund structure they recently priced, and why they chose this approach over a traditional middle market CLO. After explaining the details of how rated feeder funds like Guardian IV Rated Feeder work, Kline explained that one key benefit is of the structure is the increased flexibility it offers on industry diversity. Their chosen structure is a CLO-like product, but that lets them pursue their investment strategy without having to be forced into industries that we don't like as a firm.

    17 min

  6. 10/08/2023

    The Last Tranche with Pearl Diver's Layton: its not about tiering, its about portfolio construction

    In this episode of The Last Tranche, Matt Layton, partner and head of Europe at Pearl Diver Capital, discusses strategies for investing in CLO debt and equity amid the recent rally in liabilities. Layton says that analysing a manager's past behaviour is a better predictor of CLO equity returns than how a manager is tiered by the debt markets. He adds that some of the tier one managers have shown that they can be prone to sell loans too quickly during recent periods of volatility, which has caused those firms to lose their arbitrage faster than other managers. Layton goes on to draw parallels between today's CLO market and the vintage of deals priced in 2006 to 2007, where equity cashflows were paused during the financial crisis. When spread widening occurred on the asset side (due to amend and extend activity pushing back 2010 maturity dates) equity returns were outsized once the CLOs came back into compliance with their tests. Layton forecasts a similar market technical to play out in the next several years. Layton also discusses the investment opportunity in the US versus Europe, and how he expects the deterioration in credit quality, owing to higher interest rates, playing out amid forecasts that the US is no longer headed into a recession.

    30 min

  7. 12/05/2023

    The Last Tranche with Sound Point's Desai: the wrong CLO equity investment strategies will see negative returns

    In this episode of The Last Tranche, Ujjaval Desai, head of structured products investing at Sound Point Capital Management, shares his ideas about the investment opportunity across the CLO equity universe. Desai says that the best strategies for investing in CLO equity could see returns of up to 20%, but on the other hand, firms that fail to make careful investment decisions could see negative returns. Desai speaks to the various characteristics of CLOs that impact eventual returns including manager strategies, deal vintage, the source of equity capital and more. He also speaks to some of the trends impacting the loan and CLO markets today, noting that the leveraged loan market has actually shrunk for the first time in 2023.

    30 min

  8. 27/04/2023

    The Last Tranche with Eagle Point's Ko: We haven't made a primary CLO equity investment in nine months

    In this episode of The Last Tranche, Dan Ko, principal and portfolio manager at Eagle Point Credit Management, discusses the relative value opportunity in the CLO market. Ko says that his firm has not made a primary market investment in CLO equity since early 2022, in part because the tightness of the equity arbitrage means investors can get higher yields in the debt stack. Even triple A notes offer more attractive yields than some equity investments, Ko says. Ko also speaks to the cessation of Libor, given the approach of the base rate's cessation in June.

    24 min
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Podcast from the Creditflux editorial team discussing global credit funds and CLOs.

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