Maryam: Hey, how’s it going, guys! Welcome back to the Extra Credit podcast. To those tuning in for the first time, this is a series where we speak to international students, graduates, and professors from around the world about the beauty of studying abroad. I’m Maryam, your host for today. If you’re a fan of Indiana Jones, The Mummy trilogy, and anything to do with the history of humankind, you’re going to want to listen to our special guest, Nurul Hamizah Afandi. Hamizah here is a museum curator at the Perbadanan Muzium Negeri Pahang in Malaysia. She visits museum galleries and archives, researches their collections of historic artefacts, and tailors different exhibitions and displays to attract new visitors to the museum. But before she got here, she was a curious archaeology and anthropology student at University College London (or UCL) in the UK. Welcome, Hamizah. We’re excited to have you here with us. How are you? Hamizah: I'm good. Thank you so much for having me here. It's truly an honour to be invited to speak on this podcast as well. Maryam: We’re glad to have you here as well. We're excited to learn more about, you know, what archaeology and anthropology is about. So alright, let's go back to the beginning before you started digging into bygone eras when you were just a senior high school student at Mara Junior Science College. Tell us, Hamiza, you were a math whiz who participated in the National Maths Olympiad. What suddenly inspired you to study archaeology? That's quite the switch in interest, isn't it? Hamizah: Alright. Yes, so, like you said, Mathematics has always been, I guess, one of my favorite subjects and, I guess, it's partly because I got the exposure from a very young age because my mom herself is a math teacher. So we've been, like say, my mom's teaching math for students who come over to our home to get, like, extra classes and things like that. So, I guess I can say that math was part of my life because I have this, like, huge family thing going around. But I guess, during my upper form of high school, at some point – we had to choose between taking biology or accounting for our SPM (Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia) subjects. Like, you can't take both. So, it was at that point that I started thinking more deeply about life after school, like what I want to do, um, for my career and so on, because, well, it's not the end of the world of choosing like either biology or accounting, but then still, it somehow can probably limit or restrict your options afterwards. So, back then in school, we had to do this, ah, one test. It's called a RIASEC test and I did that quite a few times with – one of my aunts is a counselor so we did that together as well. So, it's one of those occupational personality type tests. So, every time I did the test, I got the same result. So, it basically stands for, I think, R-I-A-S-E-C stands for – was it realistic, investigative, artistic, social, entrepreneurship or something, and then conventional. So, I've always gotten the ‘I’ component very high, like, the – my marks for that component (were) very high. So, I guess I found out that I'm into careers with a very investigative nature of some sort. So, I guess it makes sense because Mathematics and Chemistry were two of my favorite subjects in school. And then they were like, with maths and chemistry, there's always, like, problems that we have to find solutions to and then you have questions that you have to find answers to. So, it's like, at the time, obviously you were not really like, familiar with research kind of thing, so I guess investigative is kind of like the best term to describe it. So, because of that, I tried to think harder about what (of) that has always interested me. So, I love watching crime documentaries. I love, reading crime, you know, books. In fact, one of my favorite novels is Sherlock Holmes. So it's during that time, I was like, okay, I think I'm into something related to, like, forensic science and something very, very research, very investigative of nature. So, um yeah, at that point, I was like, paying more attention to my interests: The books I read and, like, the movies I watched, to think about a career that I want to, like, go into. So, that's how it comes in the first place. Maryam: Interesting. I'm still wondering how, like, that ended up evolving into your interest in archaeology, because that's about, you know, studying what happened in the past, like civilisations from centuries or millennia ago. So, how did it get into that sort of, um, specialisation? Hamizah: Right, so, it started out as my personal interest in Forensic Science. So, basically, I was into, like, these crime documentaries and crime novels and stuff. So, I started planning to further my studies in Bachelors of Forensic Science or something related to that. But then, because I got a scholarship after SPM – so, I secured a scholarship by Yayasan Khazanah. But then, the one that they offered me is the one that they send students abroad, particularly to the UK and the US. So with that scholarship, there are limited options of unis that they send the students to because they only offer to send the students to top universities in the UK. So, I have, sort of, limited options of unis that I can choose on my UCAS application. So, because of that, um, I found out that (of) all the seven universities – seven UK universities – that they will send me to, none of them offered Forensic Science as a bachelor's degree. So, I sort of had to pivot my plan a little bit and sort of choose another degree that would still allow me to pursue Forensic Science on a higher education level – for example, masters – in the future if I want to still do Forensic Science. So, um, I did some research, digging out some information on the internet and trying to find what kind of degree that I can do as an option or alternative. So, obviously you can still do the hard sciences like Chemistry, Biology, and still pursue Forensic Science, but then I also kept coming across these two unfamiliar fields or terms which are “archaeology” and “anthropology.” And then, just looking into these two terms [more deeply], I found out that there are, you know, there are studies about human behavior. And then, there's like a huge overlap between Science and also Humanities. So, as somebody who has a wide range of interests, which is – I'm also interested in science, but at the same time, social sciences has always been something that’s of my interest as well – I think this is like a perfect combination of studies that I can do, and then still will allow me to do Forensics in the future if I want to. So, I ended up just going for the course and just finding out what kind of requirements, what’s the degree about in the UK, and what the course structure was like. Hamizah: I went to talk to my academic advisor in my A level college as well, and then also discussed this with my scholarship provider. And since everyone's fine with me doing Archaeology (and) Anthropology, so I just, yeah, “Go for it.” Maryam: That sounds really awesome. Was UCL one of many options? Or was it, like, the only university that was offering Archaeology and Anthropology? Hamizah: So, in the UK, there are many universities that offer Archaeology as a degree, but the seven universities that were in my list or the ones in Khazanah’s lists were Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, LSE, King's and Edinburgh. And out of those seven, only Oxford and UCL offered this course. And yeah, I had to apply (to) some other courses not related to archaeology as well. I had to apply for Anthropology in LSE just as a backup. But yeah, those are the only two universities in the options available for me that I can apply to. So yeah. Maryam: And UCL's programme attracted you more, right? Hamizah: Mhmm, yeah, because I think, with UCL, I think being in London, I guess, they have more access to museums. They have, like, more access to libraries in London as well and then they have a lot of labs, so I was quite lucky and privileged because I was able to go to both unis because Oxford called me for an interview and then it had to be an on-site interview. So, Khazanah paid for my flight to go for the interview in Oxford and then, at the same time, actually two weeks before my interview in Oxford, we had this Open Day for (UCL) offer holders. I had the chance to go and look at how the university looked like, what the classes looked like, what the people there looked like. So, I resonated more with UCL at the time compared to Oxford because of the facilities that are available. And then there's a wider range of expertise in UCL as well. And then, I think, in the field of archaeology, UCL is one of the top anyways. So yeah, it attracted me more than other universities in the UK. Maryam: Tell us, what was your programme like? Were there interesting lessons, projects, and coursework? Hamizah: So, when I was in UCL, my degree was under the Institute of Archaeology, or we call it IOA. So, for the bachelor's degree, my department offered multiple different types of degrees. So, we had BA Archaeology. We had BSc Archaeology as well. And then they used to offer BA Egyptian Archaeology. But due to low demand, they have not offered the course anymore. And then, they also have BA Classical Archaeology and Classical Civilisation, but then the one that I took is BA Archaeology and Anthropology, which is like a joint degree. So, apart from modules that I had from the Institute of Archaeology, we also had the modules from the Anthropology department. So, it's kind of like, compared to other degrees offered by IOA, according to the seniors, it's like actually double the workload because we had more modules that we had to take. Because maybe the modules that we take can count for one credit for other people, but it counts for 0.5 credit because we had to also take modules f