Think Twice with Jonathan Tobin

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The Internet and mainstream media are inundated with misinformation and superficial hot takes. That’s why you’re not getting the full story. Take another look with JNS Editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin as he takes deep dives into the most critical stories and controversies impacting the Jewish world with insightful commentary and fascinating interviews. If you want to understand the bigger picture and the context of the issues that really matter, this show is for you. Thanks for listening to Jonathan Tobin's podcast. If you appreciated today’s discussion and want to dive deeper into the issues shaping Israel and the Jewish world, join our community by subscribing to our newsletter. Your engagement keeps our journalism thriving. Your support is crucial. Support us with a donation to ensure we can continue delivering in-depth reporting: Donate Now!

  1. 7 HR AGO

    Ep. 217: Communism’s comeback and the surge of antisemitism

    Why are so many young Americans saying they support communism and do they understand that the anti-Zionist lies they are swallowing were cooked up by Soviet propagandists a half-century ago? Those are the questions JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin is asking about the willingness of ignorant Americans who are embracing the Marxist war on the West. He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by scholar Jonathan Brent, the CEO of the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research and a historian of communism and the Holocaust.   According to Brent, the reason for the revival of Marxism is, “the hatred of the American system of government and of the West generally that has been inculcated in generation after generation of young people who have gone to our most liberal and our most privileged universities and progressive schools.” This has, he says, created an appetite for a belief in the power of the state to “smash” bourgeois values, liberalism and institute more equality. But Brent points out that all this failed ideology has to offer is “an equality that is actually based on deprivation and enslavement rather than on lifting people up.”   The renewed infatuation with Marxism and the overlooking of its role in the murder of more than 100 million people during the 20th century is, Brent argues, also directly related to the support for Hamas, anti-Zionism and the war against Israel among young people. It also explains the support that an anti-Zionist like New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani gets from many young people.   Alongside of this trend is a renewed interest in the Jewish Labor Bund, the socialist Jewish movement that thrived in Europe before the Holocaust. Brent believes it is wrong for contemporary anti-Zionists to use it to attack the existence of the state of Israel.   “The back in the 1930s was not between Bundism and Israel,” Brent points out. It was a debate about, “Do we stay here or do we go there? Where do we have the best chance of survival? And by that I don't mean simply physical survival, but the survival of our traditions, the survival of our language, the survival of our customs, our literature, our music, and so on. That was the issue. Bundism, in the classical sense, was never against Israel as such. So, it's a bit dishonest to take that principled intellectual dispute of the 1930s and transport it into the present day.”   Brent also discussed the work of YIVO, which seeks to preserve the record of the Eastern European Jewish civilization that perished in the Holocaust and the Soviet gulags. While the Bundists shouldn’t be blamed for believing that Europe could be a place where Jewish life could continue to flourish, the verdict of history vindicated the belief of the Zionists that it was doomed there.   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    1hr 8min

  2. 23 APR

    Ep. 216: The seven deadly myths about the Iran war

    The trouble with most reporting and commentary about the war the United States and Israel have waged against Iran is obvious, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin. Liberal Journalists and members of the foreign policy establishment are so deranged by their hatred of U.S. President Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that they’d rather the Iranian Islamist terror regime win a war than see those two leaders get credit for doing the right thing.   He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Michael Doran, the senior fellow and director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute. Doran believes there are seven myths about the conflict that need to be debunked if Americans are to understand what’s happening in the Middle East.   The first is that it is a “war of choice.” It is not, he argues. The only other option was for the U.S. and Israel to wait for the Iranians to construct a sufficiently strong force of missiles with which they could defend their nuclear program at which point it would have been too late to do anything about it. The second is that President Barack Obama’s Iran nuclear deal would have prevented the threat if Trump hadn’t withdrawn from it. The truth is the opposite. The accord guaranteed that Iran would get a bomb rather than preventing it.   The third is that President Joe Biden had left Trump a peaceful world. That is also false because Biden’s weakness and appeasement efforts empowered Iran and left the Middle East in flames. Another myth was that Iran was ready to compromise with Trump. As with their dealings with Obama and Biden, Tehran’s idea of compromise was the United States tolerating Iran’s terrorism, missiles and nuclear ambitions.   Doran also points out that the idea that stopping Iran is a distraction from the need to contain and confront China is wrong. Conceding victory to Iran will immeasurably strengthen its Chinese ally.   The most damaging myths are the ideas that Israel dragged the United States into war and that Trump and Netanyahu are megalomaniacal warmongers. The claims about the Jewish state deceiving Trump into war are more about the antisemitism of anti-Zionists and other Israel-bashers and completely divorced from the truth. The main purpose of the war is to defend American national interests. Nor are the claims about the two leaders true. They waited until all other avenues for ending the Iranian threat were tried before ordering the strikes on Iranian targets.   Doran also deprecates those who analogize the war to past historical incidents like the 1956 Suez crisis. The United States is, unlike Britain and France in 1956, not a declining power that can be muscled by powerful allies into abandoning their interests. While the outcome of the war and negotiations to end it are unclear, Doran points out that the notion that the U.S. and Israel are doomed to defeat simply isn’t true.   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    48 min

  3. 16 APR

    Ep. 215: Don’t be deceived: Anti-Zionism is antisemitism

    The problem facing Jews today, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin, is that blood libels about Israel aren’t just being mainstreamed as they are becoming unchallenged tropes of popular culture. He’s joined in the week’s episode of Think Twice by scholar and educator Naya Lekht who argues that it’s a mistake to think that the current surge of antisemitism dates back only to the aftermath of the Hamas-led Palestinian Arab terror attacks on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023.   Lekht argues that to understand what’s happened, we need to realize that current events were catalyzed by the UN’s 2001 Durban Conference, the September 11, 2001 terror attacks and the Second Intifada. These events helped introduce into the West an ideological assault on Zionism and Jewish rights for which the organized Jewish community was completely unprepared. What’s more, she says, there is no major Jewish legacy organization that's running a campaign devoted to opposing anti-Zionism.   The anti-Zionist propaganda which is aimed at attacking an essential element of Jewish identity that has been normalized in academia and throughout Western society is not new. It is, she points out, a vestige of Soviet disinformation and propaganda.   Lecht, who emigrated from the former Soviet Union as a child, says that Jews living under Soviet rule were immune to this propaganda because they understood instinctively that what they were hearing from the Communist government’s media was always untrue. By contrast, Americans are vulnerable to such appeals. That’s especially the case when they come packaged as part of fashionable ideologies about race that have been adopted by liberal cultural and media institutions as a new orthodoxy. In this manner, such toxic ideas are accepted even when they are specifically crafted to target Jews.   She teaches that Jew hatred can be understood as part of a “three-era framework,” consisting of three distinct eras, anti-Judaism, anti-Semitism, and anti-Zionism that are all part of a demonization project. The mistake that many Jews and supporters of Israel make is to try and debate the truth of blood libels about Israel such as the claim that it is committing “genocide” or defend the Jewish state’s right to exist. As much as it is important that such blatant lies be refuted, Lekht says what is needed is an effort to stop playing defense and isolate the Jew-haters spreading propaganda.   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

    53 min

  4. 27 MAR

    Ep. 214: A handbook on how to fight back against the antisemites

    Jews around the world are reeling from the unprecedented surge of antisemitism that followed the Hamas-led Palestinian Arab attacks on southern Israel on Oct. 7, 2023. They may feel helpless when confronted by the way the Jew-haters have mainstreamed tropes of antisemitism in order to demonize Israel and its supporters. But, says JNS editor-in-chief, the answer to this problem is not to give up. Jews don’t merely need to wake up and fight back but to do so effectively and win.   He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by JNS columnist Melanie Phillips, who has written a handbook for doing just that, titled, Fighting the Hate: A Handbook for Jews Under Siege.   According to Phillips, many Jews have responded to the post-Oct. 7 tsunami of hate with shock and confusion. She says that Jews have an absolute duty to stand up against lies, against injustice, and to tell the truth. “It seemed to me that there was much that could be done if people had the right ideas about how best to go about this, " said Phillips. “And I thought, and I still think, that the organized Jewish world in the diaspora didn't really have a strategy.”   Instead of playing defense, Phillips believes the Jewish world has to get off the back foot onto the front foot and go on the offensive. Yet too many are ignorant about the conflict with the Palestinians and the way leftist ideologues are spreading Hamas propaganda.   Part of the problem is what she calls, “liberals with moral vertigo.” Phillips says some Jews were so stunned on October 7th by the people that they had thought were being oppressed by the Israelis, but had turned into barbaric, psychopathic, slaughterers for which there was absolutely no reasonable excuse and they can't process it. Yet she believes that the pro-Israel and sane Jewish community can make some headway with them. But, she says, the first thing is you have to park your anger and reach out to those who used to rationalize Palestinian behavior and try to reach them with the truth and the facts.   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    1hr 10min

  5. 19 MAR

    Ep. 213: Debunking Iran war conspiracy theories

    At the heart of much of the opposition to the war the United States and Israel are waging to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and spreading Islamist tyranny with terror is a conspiracy theory. Both left-wingers and some on the right still believe in myths about Israel or the Jews manipulating American foreign policy, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin.   He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by historian and Wall Street Journal columnist Walter Russell Mead who points out that surges of antisemitism in the United States, such as the one we’re currently experiencing, is a function of other factors which impact national discourse like economics and mass migration.   Mead also says that while antisemitism on the right is highly visible because of celebrity podcasters like Tucker Carlson, the overwhelming majority of Republicans still support Israel and the war in Iran. He argues that changes in attitudes toward Israel and increasing antisemitism are far deeper and more widely spread on the left right now.   While he doesn’t minimize the impact that antisemitic advocacy from podcasters can have on our national discourse, Mead says it's important to remember that not everyone in the country is immersed in online conspiracy theories and listen to extremists on the internet more for entertainment than for news.   American policy toward Iran is, as is the case with all foreign policy decisions, being decided by what the president of the day considers to be in U.S. interests, and not because of what Israel says or wants. As for the outcome of the current war, he admits there’s no way of knowing the outcome for sure. But he believes that the most likely result right now is one which may leave the current Islamist regime in place but with their ability to inflict harm on their neighbors or the world vastly reduced. That may oblige the U.S. and Israel to have to attack it again in the future, invoking the “mowing the grass” metaphor.   That’s in keeping with Mead’s belief that Trump’s foreign policy remains essentially “Jacksonian” in that he isn’t much interested in spreading American values and ideology abroad but is determined to defend the country’s interests aggressively.   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    1 hr

  6. 12 MAR

    Ep. 212: Why people still love dead Jews

    Jews shouldn’t have to choose between fighting antisemitism and bolstering Jewish identity. According to JNS editor-in-chief, the assertion of New York Times columnist Bret Stephens that the Jewish community should stop doing the former and concentrate on the latter is a false choice. They need, he says, to continue to do both, though, admittedly the critique of Jew-hatred is often badly executed.   He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Dara Horn, author of the highly influential 2021 book, People Love Dead Jews: Reports from a Haunted Present and the recently published Passover-themed graphic novel One Little Goat. Horn is the founder and president of The Tell Institute, which is devoted to educating the public about Jewish civilization. She says the lessons of her previous book still apply in the post-Oct. 7 era.    She argues that “people tell stories about dead Jews that make them feel good about themselves” and “living Jews have to erase themselves in order for those stories to be told.” But after Oct. 7, it’s clear that it's actually simpler than that. “The message of people who love dead Jews, which unfortunately has only been confirmed in the past two years, is that non-Jewish societies generally only find Jews acceptable when Jews have no power.”   Ultimately, she says, the point of venerating dead Jews while delegitimizing live ones, like those in Israel, “is the goal of working toward a final solution of eliminating Jewish civilization.”   Her graphic novel is aimed primarily at children but is sophisticated enough to have a lot for adults too. It presents a surrealist seder in which a lost afikomen prolongs the evening for six months and prompts a journey through Jewish history for its protagonist while being led by a talking goat. In the course of the story, the essential lesson of Passover that every Jew understands that they were personally liberated from Egypt is brought to life.

    1hr 6min

  7. 5 MAR

    Ep.211: Is Iran regime change a realistic option?

    According to JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin, at the heart of much of the opposition to the joint U.S.-Israel strikes on Iran is general ignorance about the fanatical nature of the Tehran Islamist terror regime. Rooted in religious fanaticism, their sponsorship of terrorism and nuclear ambitions are non-negotiable to a government of theocratic tyrants. That makes it imperative that Washington cease allowing them to delay until they get a weapon.   Tobin is joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Retired Israel Defense Forces General Yosef Kuperwasser, the director of the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security. He says the answer to the question about why the regime underestimated President Donald Trump’s determination to stop them from continuing to seek a nuclear weapon and spread terrorism is rooted in its essential nature.   “They couldn't do anything else, because accepting the conditions put forward by the president would have portrayed them as weak, and they cannot afford to be seen weak at home,” says Kuperwasser. He added that they also are really committed to having this nuclear weapon and will never give it up. What’s more, they believed that isolationists within the administration would persuade Trump not to act with Israel to avert the threat. Kuperwasser pointed out that the mullahs’ interpretation of Islam also leads them to believe that it is permissible to deceive foes with compromises that they don’t intend to abide by, rendering more negotiations with Tehran pointless.   Kuperwasser also tempers optimism about the majority of the Iranian people using the U.S. and Israeli attacks on the regime to overthrow it. So long as the minority within the country that are still loyal to the theocrats have a monopoly on armed force and the opposition is deeply divided along ideological and sectarian lines, there is still a good chance that the Islamic government will survive.   Kuperwasser is also deeply worried by the willingness of many Americans on the left and the far right to blame Israel for the war. It is, he says, “a very strange situation where we are attacked from both sides of the aisle.” But he insists that Israel and its supporters must prioritize. “Our first priority is to make sure that the Iran terrorist regime is out of business.” It might, he says, cause Israel to pay a political price for achieving that end in the United States. But before that problem can be addressed, the existential threat from Iran to Israel as well as the West must be eliminated.

    48 min

  8. 26 FEB

    Ep.210: Waiting for the shoe to drop on Iran

    The main question to be asked about President Donald Trump’s foreign policy is not the immediate one about whether or when the United States will attack Iran, important though that may be. Rather, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin, it’s understanding that, his critics’ claims notwithstanding, far from being isolationist, Trump’s approach is one of selective use of force only when he perceives it to be in America’s direct interest.   Tobin is joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by veteran diplomat and Tikvah Fund head Elliott Abrams. He believes that a negotiated deal between the United States and Iran that might prevent a military conflict are highly unlikely. Abrams asserts that after the severe losses they suffered during last year’s 12-day war on Iran by Israel and the United States, Trump thought Tehran understood that it was in no position to avoid making real concessions on its nuclear program and other issues. But the Iranians clearly are more worried about looking weak in the eyes of its restive population.   The Islamists are also, Abrams says, much like the Palestinians in their thinking about the conflict. They believe that demonstrating their willingness to be steadfast and continue the war against the U.S. and Israel is vital to maintaining their ideological purpose despite it not being in their interest to do so.   On the other hand, Abrams points out that a failure on Trump’s part in following through on his threats against Iran and his promise of help to the Iranian people will have serious consequences for U.S. foreign policy. Trump, too, cannot afford to look weak in the eyes of America’s adversaries.   As for the situation in Gaza in the aftermath of the cease-fire that ended the post-Oct. 7 war on Hamas, Abrams says that Trump’s Board of Peace is “frankly absurd” and “won’t achieve anything.” The situation in which Hamas continues to dig in and strengthen its military position in the portion of Gaza it still controls while Israel attacks and seeks to weaken the Islamists will likely continue until, probably after the next election, Jerusalem decides that it can no longer tolerate a Hamas state in Gaza, even if it is smaller than the one that existed prior to Oct. 7 and not as militarily strong.   Abrams also discussed the surge in antisemitism in the United States, particularly on the right. He said President Trump and Vice President JD Vance are in a position to do something about it. The question is whether they will. Meanwhile, the Tikvah Fund leader said that American Jewry should concentrate more on strengthening their own community than on playing defense against antisemites.

    57 min
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About

The Internet and mainstream media are inundated with misinformation and superficial hot takes. That’s why you’re not getting the full story. Take another look with JNS Editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin as he takes deep dives into the most critical stories and controversies impacting the Jewish world with insightful commentary and fascinating interviews. If you want to understand the bigger picture and the context of the issues that really matter, this show is for you. Thanks for listening to Jonathan Tobin's podcast. If you appreciated today’s discussion and want to dive deeper into the issues shaping Israel and the Jewish world, join our community by subscribing to our newsletter. Your engagement keeps our journalism thriving. Your support is crucial. Support us with a donation to ensure we can continue delivering in-depth reporting: Donate Now!

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