Cold War Conversations Ian Sanders

In this fascinating interview, Patrick D. Joyce recounts his unique experience growing up as the son of a U.S. diplomat during the Cold War.
Living in the diplomatic community of the Soviet Union, Nicaragua, and Cuba, Patrick shares vivid memories of his father's career as a Soviet and linguistic expert, who rose to become Deputy Ambassador at both the Moscow and Havana US embassies.
The discussion touches on the juxtaposition of ordinary family life in various U.S. embassies around the world alongside the extraordinary circumstances of espionage and international relations, highlighting the complexities and contradictions of living in hostile countries during tense political times.
The narrative weaves through personal anecdotes, school experiences, interactions with local populations, and the evolving geopolitical landscape, providing a deeply personal lens on historical events.
Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode347/
The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.
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Patrick D. Joyce is the author of two Cold War thrillers for young adults: Back in the USSR and Strawberry Fields. Learn more about Patrick and his books at https://patrickdjoyce.com. 
Obituary in The Foreign Service Journal for Patrick’s father, John M. “Mike” Joyce: 
https://afsa.org/sites/default/files/flipping_book/070823/90/ 
“The Old Russian Legacy,” by John M. Joyce, in Foreign Policy (1984): 
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1148385 
“La guerra de la CIA contra Cuba,” the 1987 Cuban TV exposé that aired the night before Patrick’s family departed Havana: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqdlRcs06-Y
The Washington Post on the Cuban TV exposé: 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1987/07/25/spy-charges-strain-us-cuban-ties/d1a4ecc6-a7f6-4765-9a74-16a2d925b2eb/
James Olson on Foreign Policy’s I Spy podcast, with a recently revealed backstory to the Cuban TV exposé: 
https://foreignpolicy.com/podcasts/ispy/?episode=the-counterspy
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0:00 Introduction to Cold War Conversations
00:27 Meet Patrick D Joyce: A Diplomat's Son
01:37 Early Life and Family Background
04:44 Life in the Diplomatic Community
09:06 Experiences in the Soviet Union
19:00 Return to Moscow in the 80s
23:58 Navigating Diplomatic Life
29:06 Reflections and Writing Novels
30:13 Arrival in Managua: A Soviet Satellite
30:52 Life Amidst Conflict: The Contra War
32:41 Navigating Diplomatic Challenges
35:03 Teenage Adventures in a War-Torn City
38:04 Spies Among Us: Embassy Life Revealed
40:46 Transition to Havana: A Diplomatic Shift
42:54 Living in Havana: Between Luxury and Hostility
46:44 A Summer Job in Havana
48:04 Suspicions and Scandals: The Spy Question
54:31 Return to Moscow: A New Era
58:56 Life in Moscow: Socializing and Escaping
01:00:18 Final Departure: A Road Trip to Freedom
01:01:08 Episode Extras and Acknowledgements
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Warning: This episode does cover the subject of suicide. If you need help please use these links:


UK https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/



Rest of the World  https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp



Tilo shares his raw and powerful testimony of a young man conscripted into the East German military at the height of Cold War tensions. He recounts the daunting prospect of being drafted into the border guards, an assignment he was determined to avoid at all costs due to his moral opposition to the Berlin Wall and the potential to be forced into shooting unarmed escapers.

Tilo vividly describes the intense medical and psychological scrutiny he faced from military officials and shares the ingenious way he ensured he wouldn't be placed in the border guards, a tactic that involved a bold statement of conscience in front of a military panel.

The episode also delves into the harsh realities of East German military life, from the ritual humiliations of new recruits to the tragic story of a comrade's suicide attempt under the pressures of service. We explore the psychological toll of such an environment and the coping mechanisms soldiers use to survive.

Tilo also describes working in an artillery brigade headquarters, an unusual tactic to prevent Allied Military Liaison Missions from identifying their vehicles and an attack by East German paratroops during an exercise.
Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode346/
The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.
Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.
Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/
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Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

00:00 Trigger Warning and Introduction
00:54 Tilo's Early Life and Draft Experience
02:43 Avoiding the Border Guards
10:27 Life in the Artillery Brigade
14:37 Harsh Realities and Hazing
18:14 Comrade's Suicide Attempt
35:03 Zyklus 89 Exercise and Conclusion
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David McKay is a former Cold War special forces officer and author of Bubbleheads, SEALs and Wizards: America's Scottish Bastion in the Cold War.
His book highlights the Scottish bases' significant role in supporting the US military over three decades.
David brings his expertise into play, examining this intriguing story by reaching out to more than one hundred veterans and expert witnesses. Their contributions reveal the personal stories of history, not high-end diplomacy.
We also delve into the espionage efforts mounted by the KGB against these bases through trawlers and agents on the ground.
Among the many stories that David details are the nuclear missile submarine operations from Holy Loch, the large radio spy stations and reveals for the first time one of America’s most bizarre intelligence gathering activities of the early Cold War.
Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode345/
Buy the book and support us here https://uk.bookshop.org/a/1549/9781849955546
The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.
Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.
Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/
Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/
Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations
Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

00:00  Introducing Cold War Conversations and David Mackay
01:54 David Mackay: From Paratrooper to Cold War Historian
05:30 The Strategic Importance of Scottish Bases in the Cold War
08:32 Project Genetrix: Balloons, Espionage, and Cold War Ingenuity
16:49 The U.S. Submarine Base in Scotland: Strategic Decisions and Local Impact
26:55 Espionage and Security: Spies, Spetsnaz, and Surveillance
33:20 The Soviet Presence in Scotland: Trawlers, Spies, and Local Encounters
41:25 Close Encounters of the Naval Kind
42:09 The Cat and Mouse of Cold War Submarines
42:53 Espionage and a High Seas Emergency
44:13 Gathering Intel
46:21 Signals Intelligence and the Scottish Connection
56:14 The Strategic Importance of Machrihanish
01:04:56 Prestwick Airport: A Cold War Crossroads
01:08:29 Reflecting on the Cuban Missile Crisis
01:11:37 Personal Anecdotes and Cold War Reflections
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Tilo offers an engaging and personal account of growing up in East Berlin before the fall of the Berlin Wall. He begins by describing his early childhood in a rundown building in Prenzlauer Berg before moving to a new prefab neighbourhood in Lichtenberg.
Tilo’s grandfather on his mother’s side was a  pastor in the Lutheran church and second in command to a Bishop at the end of his career. His grandfather on his father’s side had been a teacher and had joined the Nazi party After the World War Two he was banned from working.
Tilo’s family faced educational and career limitations due to their religious and political background compounded by the pervasive influence of the Stasi and party loyalty in determining one’s future.
Tilo  also recounts experiences of attending school with a strong military and ideological indoctrination, including paramilitary training and pressure to join the National People's Army (NVA). Despite these challenges, he  describes a vibrant underground punk scene and moments of resistance against the regime.
The story reflects on the significant socio-political changes during Tilo’s adolescence, including the impact of Chernobyl, the introduction of Glasnost, and the unexpected persistence of Nazi elements in East German society.
The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.
Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.
Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/
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Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

00:00 Introduction to Cold War Conversations
00:35 Growing Up in East Berlin: A Personal Journey
00:48 Family Background and Political Challenges
01:17 School Life and Ideological Indoctrination
01:44 The Impact of Glasnost and Political Changes
03:30 Navigating the Complexities of East German Society
23:01 Reflections on East German Education and Military Training
25:55 Facing the Draft and the Pressure to Conform
41:37 The Punk Scene and Resistance in East Berlin
46:35 Concluding Thoughts and the Legacy of the Cold War
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Bill Woodman is a former US Navy nuclear missile submarine commander, who shares his rich experiences from joining the US Naval Academy in 1964 to commanding two SSBN submarines, the USS James Monroe and the USS Alabama during the Cold War.
Bill opens up about his initial aspirations, rigorous training at the Naval Academy, and his challenging interviews with the legendary Admiral Rickover who directed the original development of US naval nuclear propulsion and controlled its operations for three decades.
He gives detailed insights into submarine operations, leadership challenges, operational readiness exercises, and the constant concern of being detected by enemy or friendly forces.
We also delve into Bill's personal challenges and the pressures on submarine families, his final patrol commanding the USS Alabama, and reflections on movies and literature that accurately depict submarine life.
Throughout, Bill shares anecdotes illustrating the camaraderie, mental fortitude, and technical prowess required to lead in the silent, unseen world of submarine warfare.
Extra episode content here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode343/
The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.
Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.
Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/
Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod
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Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/
Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations
Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

00:00 A Harrowing Introduction to Admiral Rickover
00:33 Joining the Cold War Underwater: Bill Woodman's Journey
02:40 The Rigorous Path to Becoming a Submariner
04:33 The interview with Admiral Rickover
11:09 From Nuclear Power School to Submarine Command
15:50 Commanding the Depths: Life as a Submarine Commander
31:37 The Psychological and Family Challenges of Submarine Life
40:27 Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine: The Stark Realities
41:36 Routine and Readiness: The Cycle of a Submariner
43:12 Rigorous Testing: Ensuring Operational Excellence
47:22 The Unthinkable Scenario: Letters of Last Resort and Defence Conditions
49:45 Cold War Cat and Mouse: Encounters at Sea
51:04 Leadership Under Pressure: A Harrowing Rescue at Sea
01:00:46 Interactions and Exercises: Allied Navies and the Soviet Shadow
01:07:05 Reflections on Command and the Unseen Challenges of Submarine Life
01:13:59 Submarine Cinema: Authentic Portrayals and Personal Recommendations
01:15:27 Closing Thoughts and Acknowledgments
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Burt recounts the surreal experience of learning about Fisher's true identity from a newspaper headline, the subsequent FBI interrogations, and the emotional courtroom testimony where he struggled to reconcile his friendship with the stark reality of espionage.
Burt's journey leads him to Moscow in a failed attempt to reconnect with Fisher, revealing a labyrinthine world of secrets and paranoia. He shares a heartfelt letter he left for Fisher, expressing regret and longing for a simpler time when art, not intrigue, was their common ground.
As a testament to the personal connection they shared, Burt unveils a handcrafted wooden box—a wedding gift made by Fisher himself—symbolizing the genuine human connection that endured despite the shadowy world they navigated.
This episode is a poignant exploration of identity, memory, and the complex human relationships that defy the black-and-white narrative of the Cold War.
Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode342
The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and viaa simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history.
You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.
Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.
Connect with us on social media for more Cold War content:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod
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YouTube: https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations
For the perfect gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life, visit our store at https://coldwarconversations.com/store/
If you love history, check out Into History at https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod
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