Diverse Thinking Different Learning

Dr. Karen Wilson
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Diverse Thinking · Different Learning is hosted by pediatric neuropsychologist and mom of two, Dr. Karen Wilson. Each week, Dr. Wilson shares expert insights, science-based strategies, and conversations with leading specialists to help parents and educators better understand ADHD, dyslexia, autism, executive functioning challenges, learning differences, and youth mental health. Through engaging interviews and practical guidance, the podcast translates research into real-world tools that empower adults to support neurodivergent children, struggling learners, and students with learning and thinking differences. Trusted by families and professionals alike, Diverse Thinking · Different Learning is a go-to resource for reliable information and actionable strategies to help children learn, grow, and thrive. Explore episodes and resources at https://diversethinkingpodcast.com/

  1. 1 day ago

    Ep. 267: When School Accommodations Aren't Enough: Why Neurodivergent Students Need Skill-Building Too

    Dr. Wilson brings us another solo episode this time, opening up about how accommodations can make an enormous difference for students who learn and process information differently. Extended time, audiobooks, speech-to-text, movement breaks, preferential seating, and other means of support can truly reduce barriers and help students participate more successfully in school, but what happens when those supports improve performance but do very little to address the underlying skills a student still needs to develop? Dr. Wilson touches upon the distinction between accommodations, interventions, and modifications, focusing on what can happen when skill building is missing from a student's educational plan, and she explains why helping a child complete an assignment, produce more writing, or finish a test does not necessarily mean that the child is becoming a stronger reader, writer, or independent learner. Using examples involving dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD, and sensory differences, Dr. Wilson examines the problems with relying solely on accommodations and discusses several examples: audiobooks can provide access to grade-level material, but they don't teach decoding; typing and speech-to-text can make it easier to express ideas, but they don't automatically strengthen written organization or language formulation; extra time and assignment chunking can reduce pressure for students with ADHD, but they don't inherently teach planning, organization, or self-monitoring. The conversation also considers what happens as students get older. Dr. Wilson discusses the importance of pairing accommodations with evidence-based intervention and explicitly teaching skills which can gradually increase independence over time without treating support as something that should simply be removed or using skill development as an excuse to force neurodivergent students to mask. Technology adds another interesting layer to Dr. Wilson's lecture, particularly as calculators, speech-to-text, and AI can help compensate for difficulties almost instantly. Dr. Wilson asks listeners to consider an important distinction: Are we helping students perform better right now, or helping them become more capable over time? Show Notes: [0:48] - This episode covers how accommodations provide essential access but cannot replace interventions that actually build underlying skills. [3:30] - Without targeted intervention, accommodations may improve performance while still leaving the underlying difficulties without improvement. [5:54] - Hear how effective support pairs accommodations with skill building, particularly for students struggling with reading and written expression. [8:04] - Dr. Wilson points out that students with ADHD need explicit instruction in executive functioning skills and also accommodations that reduce those barriers. [11:23] - Accommodations should support growth rather than lower expectations. [14:11] - In closing, the ultimate goal is more independence, confidence, and long-term success, not just completing the next assignment. Links and Related Resources: Episode 237: Beyond Accommodations: How Neurodivergent Students Can Thrive in College with Eric Endlich, Ph.D Episode 246: Accommodations, Modifications, or Remediation? How to Know What Your Child Really Needs with Amy Cushner Episode 248: The Power of Early Intervention: How Neuroplasticity Shapes Young Brains with Dr. Viannae Nelkin Episode 261: When Helping Becomes Overhelping: Helping Neurodivergent Kids Build Independence with Dr. Tara Williams More Podcast Episodes Join Our Community: Substack

  2. 18 Aug

    Ep. 266: The Myth of the Resilient Child: When "Pushing Through" Becomes Harmful

    This week, Dr. Karen Wilson is touching upon resilience and how our definition of it can sometimes be part of the problem. She challenges the idea that resilience means pushing through stress, staying quiet, or succeeding no matter the emotional cost. After all, a child who appears to be thriving on the outside may actually be running on empty. After a recent conversation with a parent, Dr. Wilson felt inspired to explain why good grades, athletic success, and responsible behavior don't always reflect a child's well-being, and she explores the important difference between coping and genuinely thriving, especially for children with learning and thinking differences who may work far harder than their peers while hiding their struggles. In this episode, Dr. Wilson shares six practical ways that parents can encourage resilience without fueling burnout. She discusses why it's important to recognize effort instead of focusing solely on outcomes, make room for genuine recovery, reduce pressure to be perfect, encourage emotional honesty, recognize early warning signs of burnout, and help children understand their worth extends far beyond achievement. Whether your child is entering a new school, adjusting to new routines, or facing the everyday demands of growing up, this conversation offers thoughtful reminders about what healthy resilience really looks like. Rather than teaching children to suppress their needs, Dr. Wilson makes the case for helping them recognize stress, seek support, recover from setbacks, and build confidence in ways that protect their mental health for years to come. Show Notes: [1:13] - Dr. Wilson reminds us that just because a child seems to be coping well doesn't necessarily mean that they are thriving. [4:09] - Dr. Wilson recommends paying attention to a child's effort, not just their outcomes. [5:00] - It's important to build rest and recovery time into a child's week. [6:11] - Perfectionism is not necessary, so don't add pressure by encouraging it. [7:33] - We should encourage emotional honesty. [8:29] - Instead of waiting for a burnout crisis, look for early signs of it. [9:35] - We are encouraged to help children and teens see that their worth goes beyond just academic achievement. [10:51] - In closing, Dr. Wilson reminds us that healthy resilience means facing challenges while recognizing stress and protecting mental well-being. Links and Related Resources: Episode 253: When Motivation Disappears: How to Help Tweens and Teens Reconnect with Dr. Ellen Braaten Episode 258: Dyscalculia, Dyslexia, and ADHD: Why Math Feels So Overwhelming for Some Kids with Adrianne Meldrum & Heather Brand Episode 259: Autism and ADHD Masking: The Signs & Hidden Costs with Dr. Deanna Dow Episode 261: When Helping Becomes Overhelping: Helping Neurodivergent Kids Build Independence with Dr. Tara Williams More Podcast Episodes   Connect with Us: Join Our Substack Community Email Dr. Wilson: drkiwilson@westlaneuro.com

  3. 4 Aug

    Ep. 265: Back-to-School Anxiety in Neurodivergent Kids: Why the Transition Is So Hard and How to Help

    Transitioning back to school after summer vacation can be challenging for many children, especially those who are neurodivergent. Continuing the Summer Solo Series, Dr. Karen Wilson shares seven practical, actionable strategies to help make the transition smoother. Dr. Wilson explains why even children who are genuinely excited to return to school may still experience significant anxiety. Changes in routine, increased cognitive and sensory demands, unfamiliar environments, and shifting social expectations can create overwhelming stress before classes even begin. Understanding these challenges helps parents replace frustration with compassion and provide more effective support. In this episode, you'll learn why gradually reintroducing routines, using visual supports, and building in decompression time can ease the transition back to school. Dr. Wilson also shares practical strategies for preparing for social and sensory challenges and partnering with educators before problems arise. Throughout the conversation, Dr. Wilson highlights that these approaches aren't about eliminating every obstacle (as much as we would love to do that for our kids, it simply isn't possible); they're about giving children the tools and support that they need to meet those challenges with greater confidence, so whether your child is entering a new school, moving up to a new grade, or simply finding transitions in general difficult, this episode offers some practical ideas to help make the transition smoother both for kids and their caregivers! Show Notes: [0:50] - Today's Summer Solo Series episode covers seven practical ways to help neurodivergent children transition back to school at the end of summer. [3:43] - Hear how preparation eases school-transition anxiety by reducing uncertainty for neurodivergent children. [5:26] - Remember to gradually establish routines before school begins to reduce stress and support emotional regulation. [6:34] - Dr. Wilson describes how to avoid unnecessary surprises. [8:12] - Dr. Wilson explains how visual tools and structured routines can help reduce executive functioning overload during the back-to-school transition. [10:00] - Remember to build decompression time into the day. [12:20] - Hear how to prepare proactively for social stress. [14:08] - Proactive sensory support helps children manage overstimulation before it becomes too overwhelming. [15:21] - It's important to collaborate with schools before problems even arise. [17:07] - Dr. Wilson reminds listeners that transitions are challenging because so is growth, even when it's positive. Links and Related Resources: Episode 235: Why Stress Sabotages Learning and How Parents and Educators Can Help with Jerome Schultz, PhD Episode 251: Sensory Processing & Regulation: How Play Rewires the Brain with Dr. Allie Ticktin, MA, OTD, OTR/L Episode 252: How to Make the School System Work for Your Child with Stacey Shubitz Episode 260: How Dyslexia Impacts Mental Health (Episode 212 Re-Air) More Podcast Episodes   Connect with Us: Join Our Substack Community Email Dr. Wilson: drkiwilson@westlaneuro.com

  4. 21 Jul

    Ep. 264: What an Assessment Can and Cannot Tell You

    Dr. Karen Wilson continues the Summer Solo Series to address assessments and how they can be informative yet also have their fair share of shortcomings. They can be life-changing but are often misunderstood, and Dr. Wilson unpacks what psychological and educational evaluations can actually tell us, where their limitations lie, and why they should be viewed as tools for understanding rather than crystal balls that predict a child's future. Dr. Wilson explores why so many mental health and neurodevelopmental diagnoses rely on behavioral patterns instead of definitive medical tests and how factors such as environment, development, stress, culture, and masking can influence what an assessment does or doesn't tell us. Along the way, she also shares why some children, particularly girls, gifted students, twice-exceptional learners, and others who compensate well, can appear to be thriving while masking their challenges. The episode also examines why assessment results are not fixed for life. Children grow, demands change, coping strategies evolve, and new challenges or strengths can emerge over time. Dr. Wilson talks about why not meeting full diagnostic criteria doesn't necessarily mean everything is fine, how early signs can still guide meaningful support, and why effective interventions can affect a child's profile in positive ways. Perhaps most importantly, Dr. Wilson talks about why a thoughtful evaluation should never reduce a child to a diagnosis, test score, or a list of weaknesses. A comprehensive assessment recognizes not only challenges but also strengths, helping families, educators, and clinicians better understand how a child learns, copes, and experiences the world. Labels can open doors to support, but they should never define a child's potential or worth. Whether you're considering an evaluation, making sense of a recent diagnosis, or simply curious about how assessments work, this episode of the show offers practical context, reassurance, and a reminder that every child is far more complex and far more capable than any assessment could ever fully capture! Show Notes: [1:01] - Today's Summer Solo Series episode covers assessments. [4:03] - Some children mask significant struggles, making assessments less likely to be accurate. [6:37] - Strong coping skills can delay diagnoses until life's demands outgrow a child's strategies. [9:29] - Assessment results evolve as children develop, circumstances shift, and support changes outcomes. [11:52] - Effective evaluations identify strengths as well as vulnerabilities. [14:03] - Rather than defining limitations, assessments provide a fuller picture of a child's unique profile. [16:16] - Ultimately, thoughtful assessments can lead to understanding without reducing children to diagnoses or numbers. Links and Related Resources: Episode 205: Understanding ADHD Assessments Episode 214: Private Neuropsychological Evaluation vs. School Evaluation Episode 226: Is It Autism? Recognizing, Assessing & Support Children and Teens with Dr. Chandni Singh Episode 259: Autism and ADHD: Masking the Signs & Hidden Costs with Dr. Deanna Dow Child & Adolescent Assessments in Los Angeles Child & Adolescent Assessments in Ontario, Canada: info@mindfit.ca More Podcast Episodes Connect with Us: Join Our Substack Community Email Dr. Wilson: drkiwilson@westlaneuro.com

  5. 7 Jul

    Ep. 263: Summer, Screens, and Sanity: Helping Kids Find Balance When School's Out

    Dr. Karen Wilson takes on an important topic solo this episode - screen use during the summertime when kids are out of school. With routines loosened and independence increased, many tweens and teens drift toward longer, more frequent device use, and what often begins as "just a little YouTube" can quietly stretch into hours of electronic usage, whether it be gaming, scrolling, and/or late-night screen time, often negatively impacting sleep, mood, and motivation along the way. This podcast, however, isn't here to frame screens as a simple matter of discipline or "too much time online." Dr. Wilson reframes the conversation around context, breaking down how modern digital environments (built with infinite scroll, autoplay, streaks, and algorithm-driven feeds) are intentionally designed to capture attention. For adolescents whose brains are still developing, these features can be especially effective. Plus, again, summer creates a perfect storm: less structure, more boredom, and fewer offline demands can make screens an easy default for stimulation and emotional regulation. Dr. Wilson highlights that boredom itself isn't the enemy but is often the starting point for creativity, independence, and problem-solving skills that children need to learn to build. Importantly, she also resists overly simplistic narratives about "screen time causing everything," instead explaining how screens can worsen existing challenges such as anxiety, sleep disruption, and attention difficulties, while acknowledging some benefits of digital spaces for learning and connection for neurodivergent learners. Come away from this episode with practical, actionable strategies for summer: building predictable daily anchors, separating active vs. passive screen use, expecting and preparing for pushback, modeling healthier tech habits, and intentionally replacing screen time with meaningful offline experiences. This isn't about perfection or fear but rather about helping kids build a balanced, developmentally supportive relationship with technology in a digital world that isn't slowing down anytime soon. Show Notes: [0:44] - The Summer Solo Series returns with research-based episodes on children's screen use. [3:56] - Screen use is less about hours and more about context, content, and purpose. [5:52] - Hear how adolescents' developing brains make them especially vulnerable to highly stimulating digital environments. [8:43] - Dr. Wilson explains how screens amplify existing mental health challenges but are not the sole cause. [10:51] - Even schools are rethinking technology use as attention and learning concerns grow. [13:21] - Learn how effective screen management requires routines, balanced use, and acceptance of initial pushback. [15:29] - It's so important for adults to model mindful device usage themselves. [17:04] - The effects of screen usage vary widely, requiring individualized attention to each child's needs. [18:28] - In closing, remember that healthy tech relationships balance screen use with essential developmental experiences. Links and Related Resources: Episode 142: How to Help Neurodivergent Kids Manage Social Media Episode 177: How Understanding the Adolescent Brain Helps Us Better Understand Teens Episode 241: How to Be a 'Screen-Smart' Parent with Jodi Gold, MD More Podcast Episodes Connect with Us: Join Our Substack Community Email Dr. Wilson: drkiwilson@westlaneuro.com

  6. 16 Jun

    Ep. 262: Balancing Summer Rest and Learning Support for Diverse Learners with Ashley Harding

    For this episode, we are replaying another episode of Diverse Thinking, Different Learning, this time episode 239, in which we sat down with Ashley Harding to discuss why it's so important to allow students time for rest, rejuvenation, and exploration of their interests outside of academics, especially during the summer months. As a reminder, Ashley is a fourth-generation educator and is deeply committed to educational equity. She holds degrees from USC and Tufts University in Child Development, and her career spans more than a decade, during which she has supported students and families in private and independent schools and contributed to global education initiatives in South Africa and Belize. Formerly the Director of External Engagement for a national school network, she has co-authored research on disparities affecting Black and Latino males and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal. Through her organization, North Star Academics, and her roles with BEAN and CHADD, Ashley empowers students with evidence-based strategies and advocates for those with learning differences. With summer right around the corner, this seems like the perfect time to re-air this episode, and Ashley touches upon the fact that even though academic progress remains valuable throughout the school year, summer offers a really important opportunity for students to strengthen their sense of identity, independence, and executive functioning, so, rather than filling the break with demanding academic programs, she encourages parents to instead prioritize experiences that help build confidence, self-awareness, and connection. Our conversation stresses the importance of families (both parents and students, that is) using the summer to rest, recharge, and reconnect. Ashley recommends a gradual approach, beginning with more unstructured time in June before introducing increasingly intentional activities in July and August, such as exploring upcoming coursework, reinforcing some core skills, and establishing goals for the new school year. We also explore the value of real-world learning opportunities such as cooking, managing money, and traveling, all of which can reinforce academic skills in meaningful ways while also supporting executive function development. Ashley emphasizes the importance of giving students, especially older ones, the space to pursue their interests and uncover new passions during the summer. Show Notes: [3:58] - Ashley stresses that summer should prioritize rest, integration, and well-being after a year of growth. [6:52] - Colleges value students' identities, interests, and independence beyond just academics. [9:08] - Ashley points out how post-pandemic families often need recovery, balance, and time to reset. [11:36] - Ashley explains how growth involves perseverance, reflection, and preparing for new goals and identities. [14:09] - Intensive summer programs can cause burnout, making balance and rest especially important. [15:15] - Rest can help children develop balance, self-awareness, and healthy decision-making skills. [17:58] - Summer creates opportunities for family reconnection, rest, and improving mental health. [19:09] - Parents should model balance and create space for unstructured experiences. [21:47] - Dr. Wilson provides some information about a ChildNEXUS school partner, Frostig School. [23:12] - Ashley touches upon how everyday activities can help reinforce academic skills without pressure or strict expectations. [25:14] - Hear how real-world learning and flexible routines can help maintain engagement and executive functioning. [28:36] - Ashley emphasizes that extra sleep and rest are important, but consistent routines should still remain. [30:19] - Summer offers some valuable opportunities for self-reflection, confidence-building, and personal growth. [32:59] - Independence develops via practicing time management, organization, and learning from mistakes. [35:42] - Dr. Wilson asserts that families can foster confidence by celebrating growth and collaborating on summer plans. [37:43] - Summer helps families discover evolving interests and strengthen belonging via connection. [40:21] - Dr. Wilson highlights summer as a chance to reconnect and better understand children. [42:05] - Beyond a school break, summer can lead to confidence, independence, and personal growth. Links and Related Resources: Episode 92: Executive Functioning Skills Over the Summer with Michelle Porjes Episode 154: Why Self-Efficacy and Self-Advocacy are Important for Diverse Learners with Ashley Harding Episode 239: Balancing Summer Rest and Learning Support for Diverse Learners with Ashley Harding Tricia Hersey - Rest Is Resistance: A Manifesto Frostig School - Website More Podcast Episodes Connect with Us: Join Our Substack Community Email Dr. Wilson: drkiwilson@westlaneuro.com Connect with Ashley: North Star Academics - Website North Star Academics - LinkedIn North Star Academics - Facebook North Star Academics - Instagram Phone number: 310-853-3208

  7. 2 Jun

    Ep. 261: When Helping Becomes Overhelping: Helping Neurodivergent Kids Build Independence

    This week on Diverse Thinking Different Learning, we are discussing the crucial challenge of supporting neurodivergent children without doing so in a way that hinders them from independence. Joining us to take on this topic is Dr. Tara Williams, founder of Innovative Collegiate Consultants.  Dr. William is also a tenured Chemistry professor at College of the Canyons in California, and has spent more than ten years supporting neurodivergent students as they transition from K-12 systems, helping them build confidence and independence in academic settings. Dr. Williams helps us understand why "helicopter parenting" is not a simple label but is actually a nuanced balance between necessary support and modeling independence, highlighting that parents often act as organizers, advocates, and reminders long before students are ready to fully take over those roles themselves. Through practical, relatable examples, we unpack how independence is gradually built through small, intentional steps rather than sudden, jarring changes. Our conversation highlights how self-advocacy is not just about speaking up but is also about learning how to ask for help when needed, breaking down tasks, regulating emotions, and more. Dr. Williams shares helpful strategies such as "body doubling," shared study routines, and reward systems that help students stay engaged without removing responsibility from them. She also discusses how parents can begin transferring responsibility in middle school through minor, manageable tasks such as ordering food, emailing teachers, and planning assignments, gradually and gently increasing independence through high school and into college preparation. A major focus of this episode is how executive functioning skills like time management, organization, planning, and follow-through can be strengthened with early, consistent practice, with Dr. Williams also stressing the importance of building peer support networks so that students learn to rely on classmates and study partners rather than depending solely on adults. We stress that mistakes and failure are part of the learning process and that early structure paired with increasing autonomy can really help students develop confidence and resilience.  Show Notes: [2:21] - Dr. Williams explains how advocacy develops via gradual support, not full independence all at once. [4:57] - Hear how middle school is the key starting point for transferring responsibility from parents to students. [7:13] - Learn how gradual independence with structured, low-stakes practice can help families shift from management to support. [9:43] - Dr. Williams argues that working alongside others and practicing small help-seeking steps builds confidence and self-advocacy over time. [12:46] - Hear how respectful communication and accountability are essential skills for navigating school and real-world expectations. [13:48] - We discuss how executive functioning and self-advocacy require self-awareness, emotional regulation, and structured support. [15:59] - Dr. Williams discusses how students build lifelong independence by starting small and learning from failure. [18:16] - Structured shared work time with breaks and rewards supports focus while also preserving independence. [20:34] - Dr. Williams explains how using routines, rewards, and modeling can help students balance motivation and effort. [22:08] - We discuss how gradual independence, peer support, and early self-advocacy can improve academic success. [25:37] - Discover how early, individualized planning builds organization skills and reduces overload. [28:47] - Students should gradually take ownership of organization and time management using tools like calendars and reminders. [30:26] - Ultimately, gradual responsibility for daily tasks helps students build self-advocacy across home, school, and scheduling. [32:39] - Visual, personalized organization systems improve memory, prioritization, and overall task management. [34:02] - How can listeners reach Dr. Tara Williams? Links and Related Resources: More Podcast Episodes Connect with Us: Join Our Substack Community Email Dr. Wilson: drkiwilson@westlaneuro.com Connect with Dr. Williams: Innovative Collegiate Consultants - Website Innovative Collegiate Consultants - Meet Tara Williams Innovative Collegiate Consultants - Summer Programs

  8. 19 May

    Ep. 260: How Dyslexia Impacts Mental Health (Episode 212 Re-Air)

    This month, we are replaying episode 212 of Diverse Thinking, Different Learning, in which Dr. Karen Wilson discusses the ways in which dyslexia can affect a child's mental wellbeing. Even though dyslexia is commonly associated with reading and language difficulties, the emotional implications are far too often overlooked, and Dr. Wilson unpacks some of the harmful myths that have shaped the public understanding of dyslexia for decades, including the assumption that reading struggles are tied to intelligence. She explains how those misconceptions can affect self-esteem, delay diagnosis, and leave children feeling isolated or incapable. Drawing from research and real-world examples, Dr. Wilson explores the connection between dyslexia, anxiety, depression, and social withdrawal, especially during critical school years when children are forming their sense of self.  She also highlights how exhausting reading can feel for students with dyslexia, both mentally and emotionally, and why that exhausting effort is so often misunderstood. Dr. Wilson goes into the additional challenges that many children face when dyslexia overlaps with ADHD or anxiety disorders, along with the unfortunate stigma that can come from being pulled out for specialized instruction. At the same time, however, this episode offers hope. Dr. Wilson stresses the importance of early identification, evidence-based support, and environments that help children recognize their strengths. She also shares encouraging research on resilience and self-advocacy, reminding listeners that dyslexia is only one part of a person's story, so whether you're a parent, educator, advocate, or someone living with dyslexia yourself, this episode is sure to offer research-backed insight, compassion, and a broader understanding of what support truly looks like! Show Notes: [0:00] - May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and Dr. Wilson is re-airing an episode about children with dyslexia. [1:43] - Dr. Wilson explores dyslexia myths and their damaging effects on self-esteem and mental health. [3:56] - Hear how reading struggles, stigma, and other coexisting disorders can heighten anxiety, depression, and feelings of inadequacy. [6:39] - There is hope - early intervention, emotional support, and resilience-building help children with dyslexia thrive beyond academics. [8:58] - It's important to remember that compassionate support and evidence-based interventions can help people with dyslexia succeed emotionally and socially. Links and Related Resources: Episode 115: A Family Approach to Dyslexia with Dr, Lauren Episode 183: Unlocking Potential: A Dyslexia Journey with Rosalin Abigail Kyere-Nartey Episode 208: Overcoming Dyslexia and Addressing The Reading Crisis with Sally Shaywitz, MD Episode 209: How the Science of Reading Can Close Literacy Gaps with Dr. Benjamin Powers YouTube - What Is Dyslexia More Podcast Episodes   Connect with Us: Join Our Substack Community Email Dr. Wilson: drkiwilson@westlaneuro.com

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Diverse Thinking · Different Learning is hosted by pediatric neuropsychologist and mom of two, Dr. Karen Wilson. Each week, Dr. Wilson shares expert insights, science-based strategies, and conversations with leading specialists to help parents and educators better understand ADHD, dyslexia, autism, executive functioning challenges, learning differences, and youth mental health. Through engaging interviews and practical guidance, the podcast translates research into real-world tools that empower adults to support neurodivergent children, struggling learners, and students with learning and thinking differences. Trusted by families and professionals alike, Diverse Thinking · Different Learning is a go-to resource for reliable information and actionable strategies to help children learn, grow, and thrive. Explore episodes and resources at https://diversethinkingpodcast.com/

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