How Did They Get There

Penn Media Group

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FILM INTERVIEWS

"For nearly a decade, How Did They Get There has been a space where artists and filmmakers reflect on their work, their relationships, and their search for meaning. Hosted by Dr. Penn (Jon Penn Junejo, DNP-BC), a Columbia-trained psychiatric nurse practitioner, the show brings together creativity and mental health in unfiltered, existential conversation."

21/09/2025

Ep. 63 - Tom Epperson on Baby Hawk, A Family Thing and The Gift

Trying to pigeonhole Tom Epperson into a single category is impossible—and that’s part of what makes his career so compelling. His path as a novelist and screenwriter has been anything but linear, weaving through genres and mediums with equal parts grit and curiosity. He knew early on that writing would be his life’s work, and meeting lifelong friend and collaborator Billy Bob Thornton during boyhood only strengthened that conviction, leading to a six-decade partnership that produced tremendously profound films like One False Move, The Gift, and A Family Thing. Their work has earned significant critical acclaim, including Independent Spirit Award and Saturn Award nominations, and recognition from the Writers Guild of America. As a novelist, Tom’s range is just as impressive, spanning noir, historical fiction, and adventure with titles such as Sailor, Make Believe, Roberto to the Dark Tower Came, the Edgar Award nominated The Kind One, and most recently Baby Hawk—available wherever books are sold. In our conversation, we dived into the origins of his new book, the dangers of group-think, the challenging nature of AI, his first move to Los Angeles, and what it takes to remain grounded in a chaotic world. Opening Credits: Arana - Jazz at Mladost Club I CC BY-NC-SA 3.0; Komiku - Old artefact to destroy the patriarchy hidden somewhere I CC0 1.0. Closing Credits: Jalikebba Kuyateh and the Toubabs - Griot and the Family I CC BY-NC-SA 3.0.

1h 60m
09/02/2025

Ep. 62 - Philip Andelman on Khruangbin, Lenny Kravitz and Waiting on the World to Change

Philip Andelman’s inspired take on the language and rhythm of music videos has impacted the medium in countless ways. The results are evident in his collaborations with contemporary artists, including Usher, Melissa Etheridge, Ludacris, Maxwell, d4vd, James Bay and Taylor Swift. Formative experiences with Annie Leibowitz launched his entry-point into photography. After NYU, continued experiential education under the guidance of Joseph Kahn, the legend, exposed Philip to the world of music videos with an ethos to help keep head above water. He worked as a second unit director on some of the most pivotal music videos ever made, including Moby’s Southside and U2’s Elevation. Soon after came the opportunity to step into the director’s chair for the first of six video collaborations with Lenny Kravitz, beginning with 2004’s Where Are We Runnin - a hedonistic exploration of faith. Some of the notable videos in Philip’s catalogue include John Mayer’s Waiting on the World to Change; Duck Sauce’s It’s You; Fiona Apple and Andrew Bird’s Left Handed Kisses; Miriam, by Norah Jones; and Beyonce’s Halo, featuring Michael Ealy. In our conversation, we discussed the origins of his journey and upbringing in France and New York; the grant he received from Martin Scorsese; the artistry in working with Maxwell; showing Jay-Z what he thought was an unfinished video; and a fateful Samsung commercial he directed. We also discussed his degree of versatility, and its effect on transcending genre. Opening Credits: Anitek - Tab & Anitek - Mina I CC BY-NC-ND 3.0; Genx Beats - Lofi Beats - 01 Always (Lofi Mix) I CC BY 3.0. Closing Credits: HoliznaPATREON - Tapping On The Roof I CC BY-NC-ND 4.0.

1 hr
02/02/2025

Ep. 61 - Nabil Elderkin on Gully, The People and Kendrick Lamar

Director Nabil Elderkin shoots music videos and films governed by vision, collaboration and diversity. While thematic similarities connect the dots between his projects, each video is different and a product of the stellar combination of the right artist, the right lighting, and maybe most importantly - the right feel. Growing up in a multi-cultural sphere, dictated by several international moves, led to an open-mindedness and an adaptability which did not hurt his transition into film. Surfing was the context which facilitated his portal in, and although he spent more time on the beach than in the water, the education he received, through direct exposure shooting his friends, was invaluable. His photography interest and experience developed further when he settled in Chicago, and came into Kanye West’s orbit. Soon after, he started shooting music videos for a dossier for artists which continues to expand, and includes The Black Eyed Peas, Common, Seal, Bruno Mars, Foals, J. Cole, Travis Scott, Dua Lipa and Kendrick Lamar. For his work on Swim Good and Mercy, which feature Frank Ocean and Kanye West, respectively, Nabil received 3 VMA nominations, including Best Direction in a Video and Best Hip Hop Video for the latter. Among his feature films are the Ugandan breakdancing documentary, Bouncing Cats, and the gut-wrenching exploration of trauma - Gully - which premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2019 and stars Charlie Plummer, Amber Heard, Jacob Latimore, Terrence Howard and John Corbett. In our conversation, we discussed the kernels of his film beginnings; working with actors like Willem Dafoe and Don Cheadle; collaborating with friends like John Legend; upcoming music video and narrative concepts he is developing; and a memorable encounter with Snoop Dogg. Opening Credits: HoliznaPATREON - Green Again ( LoFi) I CC BY-NC-ND 4.0; Anitek - Gnats I CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 US. Closing Credits: snoozy beats - stylish days I CC BY 4.0.

1 hr
23/01/2025

Ep. 60 - Onur Tukel on Poundcake, Richard's Wedding and Anne Heche

As an actor and filmmaker, Onur Tukel challenges the audience to delve into the frightening parts of who they are by, at times, leading them to live vicariously through his protagonists’ colorful experiences. From exploring the joy of mortality in Drawing Blood, to the perils of masculinity in 2001’s Ding-a-ling-Less, to a platonic theme of friendship amidst a romantic undertone in Richard’s Wedding, the loss of one’s identity among the backdrop of a physical manifestation of revenge in Catfight, and apathy transforming into adventure after an encounter with a vampire in Summer of Blood, which also features friend and contemporary Alex Karpovsky, Onur’s films are like shining a mirror towards the more intimate and carnal senses. We learn about the power of perspective and its impact on perception in The Misogynists, which features Dylan Baker; psychotic longing for the one that got away in That Cold Dead Look in Your Eyes, which is shot near-exclusively in French; and the connectedness of spirituality during the Pandemic in Scenes from an Empty Church, which stars Kevin Corrigan. His latest projects include the novel Run Werewolf Run, which he authored and illustrated, and will be released in 2025 by Pitchstone Publishing (ironically based in Durham, NC); and a puppet film he directed about a marionette performer which wrapped in 2024. In our conversation, we discussed his collaborations with several actors, including Anne Heche, Sandra Oh, Ariel Kavoussi and Josephine Decker; growing up in North Carolina; the unveiling of psychotherapy’s purpose in a cinematic endeavor; and the filmmakers who affected and inspired the origins of cinema in his eyes. Opening Credits: Anitek - Strange Sensations I CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 US; Jangwa - Slow Me Down I CC BY 4.0. Closing Credits: Beat Mekanik - Old Souls I CC BY 4.0.

1h 52m
24/12/2024

Ep. 59 - Joe Boyd on And the Roots of Rhythm Remain, Salamat Ali and Nick Drake

Joe Boyd’s revered productions of artists ranging from Pink Floyd, The Incredible String Band and Nick Drake had been widely-circulated and universally-acclaimed. He had worked with Stanley Kubrick at Warner Bros to assemble the soundtrack to A Clockwork Orange. He founded the UFO Club which featured avant-garde artists like Soft Machine — which became his house band — and Yoko Ono. Productions of R.E.M., Billy Bragg, 10,000 Maniacs, Fairport Convention and Richard and Linda Thompson followed. He directed Jimi Hendrix, the eponymous documentary. But if you were paying attention, you would have made note of the through-line running through Joe’s prolific output — World Music. His productions of artists such as Dagmar Krause, Nazakat & Salamat Ali, the Trio Bulgarka, ¡Cubanismo!, Virginia Rodrigues, Damir Imamović and several others demonstrated his versatility to trancend not only genre, but also language and culture. Joe’s vibrant musical output eclipsed what we thought was possible in the art and science of music. His latest book, And the Roots of Rhythm Remain, examines the origins, impact and cultural undertones which define world music through his lens. In our conversation, we discussed the roots of his latest masterpiece; political-songwriting through shifting of culture; categorization as a benefit toward creativity; and musical and storytelling experiences with Brian Eno, David Bryne, Bob Dylan, Mike Heron and others. Opening Credits: 1st Contact - Just Quickly I CC BY-SA; Ahmadreza Safarian - Forgotten Corpses I CC BY-NC-SA. Closing Credits: Till Paradiso - Here the Stars for You (TP 063) - CC BY-NC-SA.

1h 4m
16/12/2024

Ep. 58 - Arizona O'Neill on CBC’s Creator Network, Organ Donation and Patrick Watson

Arizona O’Neill’s art delves into topics derived from her Montreal upbringing and French-Quebec culture, and include the ramifications of gentrification, the vibrancy of music, and the origins of revolt. She has contributed several pieces to The CBC Creator Network, which include Hockey Riots, Period Pieces, and History of Jazz. Her novel, Est-ce qu’un artiste peut être heureux? (or “Can an Artist be Happy?”) was published in November 2022. And her impressive catalogue of illustrations, for publications like National Geographic Canada, includes the 2024 edition of "L'enfant dans le miroir" by Nelly Arcan which features a feminist perspective on the late-author’s legacy. Her latest book will be published by Drawn & Quarterly, and is inspired by her own experience donating her late-father’s organs, and surveys themes which include grief and addiction. In our conversation, we discussed her experience growing up in Montreal; her take on the legacy of the Montreal Canadiens; her collaborations with Patrick Watson, as a music video director; and the challenging territory she explored in authoring her latest work. Opening Credits: HoliznaPATREON - Relic 1 ( LoFi , Dark ) I CC BY-NC-ND 4.0; Anitek - NeedleLess To Say I CC BY-NC-SA. Closing Credits: Christophe Frémiot - l-ind-pendante I CC BY-NC-SA.

54 min
17/11/2024

Ep. 57 - Bernardo Cubria on Acapulco, The Hispanic/Latino/Latina/Latinx/Latine Vote and Gene Wilder

Cultural incongruence and its consequences is a theme which has shaped Bernardo Cubria’s work in several different ways. As an actor, in television shows like Group, his work explores what it means to be misunderstood, and delves into the epiphany which often arises when one realizes his peers’ criticisms and insights, which they initially may have dismissed, may, in fact, lead to realizations about self that may significantly affect their perspective. As a playwright, it has laid the backdrop that surrounds his stories about typecasting, politics, cultural appropriation, and the trivialization of minorities in America that can be seen in works like Crabs in a Bucket, which won the 2024 Los Angeles Drama Critics Circle Award for Best Writing; The Giant Void In My Soul, a satirical journey into fulfillment (and the lack thereof); Neighbors: A Fair Trade Agreement; and the timely portrait of electoral pregnancy in The Hispanic/Latino/Latina/Latinx/Latine Vote. His work has been awarded the Smith Prize for Political Theater and has been nominated for Stage Raw and Ovation awards. As a screenwriter, he wrote Like It Used to Be and Guerrero which Gina Rodriguez is attached to direct and star in, and he was a 2023 Sundance Screenwriters Lab fellow for the screenplay Kill Yr Idols which he cowrote. In our conversation, we discussed the interplay of the notable themes in Bernardo’s projects, including Loop Group: Or Shia Lebeouf's Version, as well as being part of the writer’s staff on Seasons 3 and 4 on the Apple + series, Acapulco. Opening Credits: AvapXia - Do You Still Think About Me? I CC BY 4.0; Anitek - 09 Lola I CC BY-NC-SA 4.0. Closing Credits: Útidúr - Fisherman's Friend I CC BY-NC-SA 3.0.

1h 4m
10/11/2024

Ep. 56 - Matt Williams on Glimpses, Roseanne and Tim Allen

Matt Williams utilizes a character-centric approach in creating and developing iconic television series, including Roseanne and Home Improvement. The Humanitas Prize and 6-time Emmy nominated Evansville native received graduate degrees in directing and acting, and embarked on a host of television commercials, as an actor, before realizing his talent and bliss as the driving force behind impactful, relatable film and television projects. After cutting his teeth as an actor (and de facto writer and re-writer) on the CBN soap, Another Life, Matt produced and joined the writing staff of The Cosby Show during its premiere season. It was there where he learned the relevance of inviting the audience to the family table — a concept that bore fruit with regard to the development of Roseanne. In the years which followed, Matt co-created and executive produced a number of television shows under the umbrella of Wind Dancer, the production company he founded with Carmen Finestra and David McFadzean, the latter whom Matt first met at University of Evansville, which include Home Improvement, Buddies, Thunder Alley and Soul Man. He directed and produced the films Where the Heart Is, starring Natalie Portman and Ashley Judd, about a young woman who delivers a baby in a Wal Mart after being abandoned by the latter’s father in the parking lot, and her journey of growth and self-discovery which follows; and Walker Payne, which he also co-wrote, and starred Jason Patric, Bruce Dern, Drea de Matteo and the legendary Sam Shepard and premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival. Additional producing efforts include What Women Want, Bernie, As Cool as I Am and Wild Hearts Can’t be Broken. The focus of our discussion was his latest book, Glimpses: A Comedy Writer's Take on Life, Love and All That Spiritual Stuff. Opening Credits: Lobo Loco - Room of Longing B (ID 2240) I CC BY-NC-SA 4.0; Anitek - Bricolage I CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 US. Closing Credits: Útidúr - Grasping for Thoughts I CC BY-NC-SA 3.0.

49 min

"For nearly a decade, How Did They Get There has been a space where artists and filmmakers reflect on their work, their relationships, and their search for meaning. Hosted by Dr. Penn (Jon Penn Junejo, DNP-BC), a Columbia-trained psychiatric nurse practitioner, the show brings together creativity and mental health in unfiltered, existential conversation."

Creator

Penn Media Group
Years Active

2016 - 2025
Episodes

63
Rating

Explicit
Show Website

How Did They Get There