The AI Native Dev - from Copilot today to AI Native Software Development tomorrow

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Welcome to The AI Native Developer, hosted by Guy Podjarny and Simon Maple. Join us as we explore and help shape the future of software development through the lens of AI. In this new paradigm of AI Native Software Development, we delve into how AI is transforming the way we build software, from tools and practices to the very structure of development teams.Our target audience includes developers and development leaders eager to stay ahead of the curve. If you're passionate about the future of software development and curious about how to leverage AI to build effective teams and groundbreaking software, this podcast is for you.Each week, we bring you insights into the latest AI tools and best practices, keeping you up-to-date with the cutting-edge advancements in the industry. Additionally, every two weeks, we present deep dives with experts and leaders in the AI and software development space, offering a glimpse into the future of AI development.Tune in to discover how AI will revolutionize your workflows, roles, and organizations. Get inspired by the latest tools and best practices, and prepare to be part of the next generation of software development.

  1. The Creator of Spring Thinks You Can't Code Serious Software With AI

    1 DAY AGO

    The Creator of Spring Thinks You Can't Code Serious Software With AI

    Rod Johnson — the creator of Spring Framework and founder of Embabel — joins Simon Maple on the AI Native Dev Podcast to share his unfiltered take on where enterprise AI is actually heading. In this episode, Rod breaks down why enterprises are making a huge mistake rewriting Java apps in Python, why vibe coding will destroy your codebase if left unchecked, and why this might be the last generation of frameworks that developers ever choose for themselves. Rod also pulls back the curtain on Embabel — the new JVM-native agentic framework he's building — including how it borrows its planning algorithm from NPC AI in video games, why he's skeptical of MCP despite its hype, and the AI failure pattern he keeps seeing in large enterprises. Whether you're a Java developer navigating the AI wave or a tech lead trying to figure out where to actually invest, this is essential listening. Topics covered: 0:00 Intro — Rod Johnson, Spring creator, returns to building 5:16 PhD in 19th century Parisian piano music (yes, really) 6:15 What made Rod come back and build Embabel 7:36 "The universe would end before Python could execute inference" 13:08 The #1 enterprise AI failure pattern Rod keeps seeing 16:23 "You cannot vibe code serious software" 19:37 Why Embabel uses a video game NPC planning algorithm 27:47 Why Rod is an MCP skeptic 53:54 "This is the last wave of frameworks chosen by people" Links: 🔗 Embabel: https://embabel.com 🎟 AI Native Dev London (June 1–2): https://ainativedev.io — use code POD30 for 30% off. Subscribe for weekly conversations with the engineers and founders building the future of AI-native development. Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    57 min
  2. What OpenAI, Stripe & ElevenLabs Devs Do Differently Now | AI Native Dev

    28 APR

    What OpenAI, Stripe & ElevenLabs Devs Do Differently Now | AI Native Dev

    How aligned are teams at Google DeepMind, OpenAI, Stripe, and ElevenLabs on what’s changing in software development? At AI Engineer London, with 100+ speakers and 1000+ engineers in the room, Simon Maple pulls together perspectives from across the ecosystem to understand where AI-native development is heading. • why traditional CI/CD “is dead” • the growing need for automated code review and guardrails • the move from more context is better to right context at the right time • the difference between general-purpose models vs specialized domain models To catch conversations like these in person, register for AI DevCon in London on 1st and 2nd June 2026. Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    1hr 6min
  3. Logan Kilpatrick on Who Ships AGI, DeepMind and the Problem With More Software

    21 APR

    Logan Kilpatrick on Who Ships AGI, DeepMind and the Problem With More Software

    "If you could have a system that could build anything with code, humans can't compete on the same level. That's narrow superintelligence, and we're close." In this episode of AI Native Dev, Simon Maple sits down with Logan Kilpatrick, who spent years at OpenAI working alongside Sam Altman before moving to Google DeepMind as Group Product Manager.  They get into: There will be 100x more developers in the world because of AIAGI will be a product, not a modelThe way you used AI tools three months ago is already wrongWhat's actually changing inside the Gemini team and why it matters for developers building with it today The developers who win won't be the ones who mastered today's tools. They'll be the ones who never stopped learning the new ones. Building AI-native? AI DevCon is coming to London, 1st and 2nd June 2026: https://tessl.io/devcon/ Connect with us here: Simon Maple: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/Logan Kilpatrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logankilpatrick/Google DeepMind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/googledeepmind/Tessl: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/?originalSubdomain=ukJoin the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    39 min
  4. Everything 100 Episodes Revealed About AI Native Dev

    14 APR

    Everything 100 Episodes Revealed About AI Native Dev

    When did writing code stop being the job and start being the hobby? One hundred episodes in, Guy Podjarny and Simon Maple pull the clips, check the predictions, and trace the through line across conversations with guests from Datadog, ElevenLabs, GitHub, and more. They get into: The move from spec-driven to context-driven developmentWhy humans become the bottleneck in code reviewWhat changes when agents run the SDLC end-to-endAdoption across orgs vs depth of actual usage Thanks to every guest and every listener who made this possible. On to the next hundred. Want to have these conversations in person? AI DevCon is coming to London on 1st and 2nd June, 2026. Book your tickets here - https://tessl.io/devcon/ Connect with us here:  Guy Podjarny- https://www.linkedin.com/in/guypo/Simon Maple- https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/Tessl- https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/AI Native Dev- https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/ai-native-dev/Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    57 min
  5. How DeepSeek leveraged Qwen and Llama to build its model in $5M

    7 APR

    How DeepSeek leveraged Qwen and Llama to build its model in $5M

    Meta’s Llama might not actually be open source AI, and the developers building on it have no idea. In this episode of AI Native Dev, Simon Maple sits down with Amanda Brock, CEO of OpenUK, to break down what open source actually means in the age of AI and why most of the industry is getting it wrong. They get into: what open washing is and why it is happening across major models right nowhow DeepSeek built a frontier model for $5 million instead of $100 millionwhy Chinese developers are already on Kimi and the west is sleeping on itwhat the west needs to learn from China's open source strategy before it is too late Eight companies already control the world's digital infrastructure. We cannot let that happen again with AI. Connect with us here: Simon Maple: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/Amanda Brock: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandabrocktech/OpenUK: https://www.linkedin.com/company/openuktechnology/?originalSubdomain=ukTessl: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    40 min
  6. Why Every Developer needs to know about WebMCP Now

    31 MAR

    Why Every Developer needs to know about WebMCP Now

    An agent cannot read your website. And that needs to change. In this episode of AI Native Dev, Guy Podjarny sits down with Maximiliano Firtman, 30-year web developer and author of 14 books, to talk about what building for the web looks like when traffic comes from agents and humans both. They get into: why AI agents taking screenshots of your website is inefficient and expensivewhat Web MCP is and how it gives agents a direct API into your websitehow a 200MB Apple model running offline is opening up a whole new category of web appswhy every vibe coded app is a web app and what that means for the future of the web Your next visitor might not be human. Are you ready for that? Connect with us here:  Maximiliano Firtman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/firtman/?locale=esGuy Podjarny: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/guypoTessl: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    1hr 1min
  7. Stop Maintaining Your Code. Start Replacing It

    24 MAR

    Stop Maintaining Your Code. Start Replacing It

    "The code that we have is a liability. The system is the asset we're building." Chad Fowler, VC at Blue Yard Capital and former CTO at Wunderlist, sits down with Guy Podjarny to discuss the Phoenix Architecture: software designed to be replaced rather than maintained. In this episode: • why was the code written by Chad never longer than a page • how he replaced 70% of a codebase in 3 months and cut costs by 75% • shipping AI code no human ever reviewed, and how to make it safe • the shadow specs your agents are making without you • why your system should work with the worst LLM, not just the best If you're still thinking about your codebase the old way, this one will change that. Connect with us here:  Chad Fowler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fowlerchad/Blue Yard Capital: https://www.linkedin.com/company/blueyard-capital/Guy Podjarny: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/guypoTessl: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    1hr 2min
  8. We Scanned 3,984 Skills — 1 in 7 Can Hack Your Machine

    17 MAR

    We Scanned 3,984 Skills — 1 in 7 Can Hack Your Machine

    Most developers install skills without reading what's inside them. But that's exactly what attackers are counting on. Simon Maple sits down with Brian Vermeer from Snyk at DevNexus to get into the security risk hiding inside the skills and MCPs running on your local machine. They scanned over 4,000 skills and found that 1 in 7 had at least one critical security vulnerability. Here’s what you need to know: Why prompting your agent to write secure code doesn't make it secureHow a trusted skill can update silently and start offloading your credentialsWhat prompt injection actually looks like inside a skill fileWhy vibe coding makes the attack surface bigger, not smallerHow the Snyk agent scan catches what you'd never spot manually Every skill on the Tessl registry now has a Snyk security scan attached. Check before you install. Connect with us here: Simon Maple: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/ Brian Vermeer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianvermeer/ Snyk: https://www.linkedin.com/company/snyk/ Tessl: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/ Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

    35 min
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Welcome to The AI Native Developer, hosted by Guy Podjarny and Simon Maple. Join us as we explore and help shape the future of software development through the lens of AI. In this new paradigm of AI Native Software Development, we delve into how AI is transforming the way we build software, from tools and practices to the very structure of development teams.Our target audience includes developers and development leaders eager to stay ahead of the curve. If you're passionate about the future of software development and curious about how to leverage AI to build effective teams and groundbreaking software, this podcast is for you.Each week, we bring you insights into the latest AI tools and best practices, keeping you up-to-date with the cutting-edge advancements in the industry. Additionally, every two weeks, we present deep dives with experts and leaders in the AI and software development space, offering a glimpse into the future of AI development.Tune in to discover how AI will revolutionize your workflows, roles, and organizations. Get inspired by the latest tools and best practices, and prepare to be part of the next generation of software development.

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