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27/08/2025 · Contenuti extra

BONUS: Chris Lane and Matt Martens on the WM3 & Criminal Justice System

Mike Cosper and Rebekah Sebastian sit down with Chris Lane, District Attorney of Floyd County, Indiana, and Matt Martens, a Washington, D.C. defense attorney and author of Reforming Criminal Justice: A Christian Proposal. Together, they unpack the tensions between prosecution and defense, the challenges created by systemic limitations, and the unique factors in the West Memphis 3 case that frustrated and bewildered so many of us. We’re grateful to Chris Lane and Matt Martens for joining us for this illuminating and generous conversation. Please consider liking the DDBS Facebook page to keep up on all show news, livestreams and for conversations with other listeners. Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today Hosted and written by Mike Cosper Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven Music by Dirt Poor Robins Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Martin Shaw on the Liturgy of Myth

What do myth, wilderness, and ancient story have to teach a culture drowning in information but starving for meaning? Watch a video version of this episode, here. Russell Moore sits down with mythologist, storyteller, and author Martin Shaw–called our “greatest living storyteller”–in a conversation centered on Shaw’s upcoming book, Liturgies of the Wild (releasing February 3). Drawing on folklore, wilderness tradition, and Christian theology, Shaw argues that Christianity is not merely a belief system but an initiatory path—one that modern culture has domesticated into something safer, quieter, and far less demanding. Shaw reflects on his own journey from Baptist church pews to decades spent studying myth, living in a tent, and eventually returning—reluctantly—to Christianity through Eastern Orthodoxy. Their conversation touches on his 4-day-retreat-turned-conversion, myth versus fact, the resurrection as “disturbingly strange,” the dangers of cynicism and sarcasm, the rise of psychedelic spirituality, and how practices as simple as memorizing a poem or sitting by a fire can begin to re-form the soul. If you’re beginning the year considering longing, risk, and what it means to become fully human in a world that prefers comfort to transformation–and you’re wanting to hear poetry recited in a British accent–this conversation is for you. Resources mentioned in this episode: Liturgies of the Wild — Martin Shaw The Moviegoer — Walker Percy The Pilgrim’s Regress — C.S. Lewis Against the Machine — Paul Kingsnorth (Listen here for Paul’s interview with Russell) The Hero with a Thousand Faces — Joseph Campbell Keep up with Russell: ⁠Sign up for the weekly newsletter⁠ ⁠⁠where Russell shares thoughtful takes on big questions, offers a Christian perspective on life, and recommends books and music he's enjoying. Submit a question for the show at ⁠questions@russellmoore.com⁠ Subscribe to the Christianity Today Magazine: Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: ⁠⁠⁠Click here⁠ for 25% off a subscription⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Stagione 1, puntata 15

Aftermath

Five days after resigning as lead pastor of Mars Hill Church, Mark Driscoll was once again in front of a crowd—this time, a packed conference of pastors who offered him a standing ovation in support. It only took 474 days for him to announce he was planting a new church in Scottsdale, Arizona. But while Driscoll wielded his own force of personality to get as much distance from Mars Hill as possible, life in Seattle was a different story. A confused and hurting church was displaced, hundreds of people were out of their jobs, and the fiercest critics of the church practically threw a party. In our series finale, we follow a few of those threads, which led some people to new ministries, others to new careers, and still others out of the church altogether. We’ll revisit the legacy of Driscoll’s teaching on gender, and we’ll ask whether or not he really preached good news and freedom. We’ll also look for the presence of Christ, working in surprising and unseen ways to bring beauty out of the ashes of what was once Mars Hill Church. As we end 2021, we’d love to invite you to join us as we continue to try to tell stories like this. Subscriptions are a great way to do that, and we’d love if you considered us with your end-of-year giving. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive produced by Erik Petrik Produced, written, and edited by Mike Cosper Joy Beth Smith is our associate producer. Music and sound design by Kate Siefker and Mike Cosper Our theme song for this finale is “Resplendent” by Bill Mallonee and the Vigilantes of Love. The closing song this week is “All My Favorite People” by Over the Rhine. Special thanks to Ben Vandermeer Graphic design by Bryan Todd Social media by Kara Bettis and Morgan Lee Editorial consulting by Andrea Palpant Dilley CT’s Editor in Chief is Timothy Dalrymple. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Stagione 1, puntata 14

The Tempest

Mars Hill grew dramatically in 2012, and it seemed like nothing could stop the church’s ever-widening expansion. Pastor Mark Driscoll’s book Real Marriage released that January, hit The New York Times Best Seller list, and launched a book tour and a series of television appearances that brought him into countless new homes and churches. But in the next two years, the church would experience endless controversy, turn over almost all of their staff, and discover that no efforts at PR or spin could hide the rot of a deeply dysfunctional culture of leadership. The second-to-last episode of this series is a two-and-a-half-hour look at those final two years, especially between October 2013 and October 2014, to look at exactly what brought down one of America’s fastest-growing churches, and how some of the characters whose lives we’ve followed in this series weathered the turmoil. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Additional Editing: Resonate Recordings and Matt Linder Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Morgan Lee and Kara Bettis Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Special thanks to Ben Vandermeer Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “O How the Mighty Have Fallen” by The Choir Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Stagione 1, puntata 8

Bonus Episode: I Kissed Christianity Goodbye

A Bonus Episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Love it or hate it, if you grew up in a youth group after 1997, you probably had to reckon with Joshua Harris’s I Kissed Dating Goodbye, his treatise on dating and courtship. The book sold millions and made him, in Collin Hansen’s terms, an “evangelical boy wonder.”At 29 years old he became the lead pastor of a Maryland megachurch and a rising star in Sovereign Grace Ministries. But when that movement was torn apart by controversy, conflict, and accusations of a systemic cover-up of child abuse, he found himself reeling, unsure of his calling and convictions. He left ministry in 2015, and in 2019, announced that he no longer identified as a Christian. In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, we’ll explore Josh’s story as a contemporary of Mark Driscoll, someone who was his polar opposite in temperament, and who’s struggles in ministry led to a divergent outcome. We’ll talk about faith, doubt, and celebrity, and discuss how Christians might think about their own doubts and deconstruction, recognizing them as a normal part of the Christian life. Subscriptions to CT are one of the best ways to support this kind of journalism. If you want to help us continue doing this kind of work, consider joining today at orderct.com/marshill. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker and Mike Cosper Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Spirit (Keep On)” by Jeremy Casella Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Stagione 1, puntata 10

Demon Hunting

We are people built for wonder, spiritual creatures looking for spiritual footholds in a culture often devoid of belief in the supernatural. We long for miracles -- the defeat of sin and shame, displays of God’s power transforming our deepest pain. For some who attended Mars Hill, the instinct toward astonishment led them to Mark Driscoll’s charismatic deliverance ministry. In a world where belief is so often hard to come by, Mark claimed to have faith strong enough to move mountains and, literally, to cast out demons. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper asks the piercing question, “Where’s the line between the hand of God and a charismatic leader?” How do we know when our craving for astonishment is being manipulated? When do we accept the claims of someone speaking on God’s behalf? Using the lesser known Mars Hill “demon trials” as a backdrop, Cosper explores the Pentecostal origins of Driscoll’s deliverance ministry, examines the extra biblical rules that governed Mars Hill spiritual warfare, and considers our longing to hear from God and see him move in our midst. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Special thanks to Ben Vandermeer Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Time is a Lion” by Joe Henry Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Stagione 1, puntata 6

The Brand

Mark Driscoll rose to prominence in the early days of the Internet. Unlike his megapastor predecessors like Robert Schuller and Bill Hybels, Driscoll harnessed technology to build his brand and bypass cultural gatekeepers who might hinder or influence his success. He formed a talented media team that would expand his reach and, inadvertently, reinforce his ego through an online presence. Quickly though, his star rose too far, keeping him at arm’s length from the collaboration and counsel of those who could lend wisdom to his youthful, combustive pastoral ministry. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper breaks down how technology shaped the messaging and marketing of Mark Driscoll and how personal brand can isolate a leader even as it fuels a ministry’s growth. Cosper interviews broadly, from Mars Hill media team members to Collin Hansen of The Gospel Coalition, to investigate how narcissism grows, how theological movements birth new leaders, and why the church’s love affair with charisma and certainty demands we develop a better moral imagination. Rethink your admiration for celebrity pastors. Reevaluate your attraction to religious trends. And, reflect on your own willingness to stand “sola” when church becomes about something other than the Gospel. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Bang” by Moda Spira Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Stagione 1, puntata 3

"You Read the Bible, Ringo?"

Church planting, even under the best of circumstances, always requires grit and determination. Planting in one of the most progressive cities in the US at the turn of the millennium required even more. But if Mark Driscoll struggled with anything in his ministry, it wasn’t a lack of will. The earliest days of Mars Hill were a whirlwind of activity – launching new campuses, preaching as many as seven times a Sunday, assimilating new people, and developing new ministries all at once. The church quickly proved to be a magnet for spiritual seekers of all kinds – eager Christians looking to build, apathetic Christians needing renewal, and non-Christians hearing the gospel in a new context. On this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, we take you inside that hive of activity to examine up close the ways God was at work. You’ll see Mark Driscoll not only as a preacher and a movement leader, but as a caring pastor. You’ll also see signs of volatility in Mark’s ministry. Tensions in the Young Leaders Network start to build and a pivot in Mark’s own convictions pushes them to their limits. Meanwhile, inside Mars Hill, a throwaway remark at a friendly dinner becomes the catalyst for intense, life-altering conflict. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: “Did I Tell You the Bullet’s Still There” by Bill Mallonee Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Stagione 1, puntata 1

Who Killed Mars Hill?

In 2014, after more than a decade of tremendous growth and ministry, Mars Hill Church imploded with the resignation of its lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. Once a hub for those disenfranchised with cultural Christianity, Mars Hill’s characteristic “punk rock spirit” became its downfall as power, fame and spiritual trauma invaded the ministry. But how did things fall apart? Where did Mark Driscoll take a wrong turn? Who could be held responsible for the hurt and disillusionment that resulted? In this inaugural episode of “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill,” host Mike Cosper begins at the end, investigating the rubble of Mars Hill’s fall for answers. Meet Mark, the firebrand “cussing pastor” whose ministry of breaking conventions called men and women to transformation and whose rebellion touched a nerve with those inside and outside the church. Meet a church culture that considered relational fallout as simply part of the job. And, take a look in the mirror to ask why we keep doing this -- elevating leaders whose charisma outpaces their character. Loaded with piercing and poignant interviews, this episode invites you to release preconceived notions about this familiar story and listen afresh to a narrative that feels painfully relevant more than a decade later. Wonder why Christianity Today features stories like these? Stick around at the end of the episode as Kate Shellnut and Daniel Silliman discuss why talking about church culture and leadership matters. Read more at “If You See Something, Say Something” and Why We Report Bad News About Leaders. Here is the letter presenting formal charges against Mark Driscoll from 21 former Mars Hill pastors. Here is the letter from nine pastors who were serving in August of 2014, asking Mark Driscoll to step down from ministry and enter a restoration process. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme song: “Sticks and Stones” by Kings Kaleidoscope Closing song: "Slow and Steady Wins the Race" by Pedro the Lion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
11/12/2025 · Contenuti extra

BONUS: Amanda Knox on the Satanic Panic and Wrongful Convictions

In our final bonus episode, Mike Cosper and Rebekah Sebastian talk with exoneree, producer, author, podcaster, and advocate Amanda Knox. Amanda was a 20-year-old American student in Perugia in 2007 when her roommate, Meredith Kercher, was murdered in the apartment they shared. Italian prosecutors quickly zeroed in on Amanda, casting her as the instigator of a lurid, senseless crime and claiming she pulled her then-boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, into it. She and Raffaele were convicted in 2009, and she spent nearly four years in prison before a 2011 appeals court overturned the verdict. In 2015, Italy’s highest court fully exonerated them both. By then, another man , Rudy Guede, whose DNA and fingerprints were all over the scene, had been prosecuted and convicted. In this conversation, Amanda reflects on how elements of the satanic panic and conspiratorial thinking shaped her case and how she understands that period of her life now. She offers candid insight into the themes we’ve explored throughout the series and the complicated dynamics in real stories often framed as “good vs. evil.” She also discusses the challenges of portraying victims in The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, the new Hulu scripted series she executive produced. Learn more about Amanda’s work on her website: https://www.amandaknox.com/ We’re grateful for her time, insight, and generosity. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening. Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today. Hosted and written by Mike Cosper Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven Music by Dirt Poor Robins Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts Matt Stevens is our senior producer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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