The Cab Chat Show E295Cab Chat - Are autonomous vehicles really autonomous?Jamie the Cabby and Tom the Taxi Driver return from holiday with a practical, opinionated look at TfL’s licensing of up to 15 Wave-operated Ford Mustang Mach-E vehicles in London. They unpack what “autonomous” means when a licensed private hire driver still has to sit in the front seat, and why that makes the whole thing feel more like a trial than a true driverless rollout. Speaker coverageJamie the Cabby- shares a recent Disneyland Paris trip, argues the licensing is effectively just another private hire vehicle, and raises concerns about safety, passenger support, disability access, and the inconsistency of TfL rules. Tom the Taxi Driver- returns from Mallorca, explains what he saw on the road, reads from Taxi Point, questions the legal and practical implications, and pushes the argument that the public-facing “driverless” label is misleading. Key topicsIn this episode: Jamie and Tom open with holiday stories, including Jamie’s trip to Disneyland Paris and Tom’s week in Mallorca, before moving into the main topic.They discuss TfL’s licensing of up to 15 Wave-operated all-electric Ford Mustang Mach-E vehicles as a one-year trial.Tom explains that the vehicles are described as autonomous-capable, but must be supervised by a licensed private hire driver sitting in the front seat.Jamie argues that if a human is responsible for offences, steering intervention, and passenger safety, then the vehicle is not truly driverless in any meaningful sense.They question who is actually liable if the vehicle drives the wrong way down a street, commits an offence, or is involved in an accident.The pair highlight the confusion around Wave, Waymo, Uber, and what platform is actually operating these vehicles.They compare the relative openness of this licensing with the heavy scrutiny faced by cab and private hire drivers over issues like turning circles, cameras, and vehicle equipment.They debate whether autonomous vehicles would work better on buses, trains, or fixed routes rather than in complex city streets.Jamie makes the case that drivers provide more than transport, including assistance for blind, elderly, or vulnerable passengers, which autonomous vehicles cannot replicate.They close by arguing that the trial mostly delays the real decision for a year while TfL gathers more evidence and public opinion. Timestamps00:00 - Welcome back after the holiday break 02:30 - Mallorca heat, Dubai-style nights, and camper van wheel upgrades 03:46 - TfL licenses 15 Wave-operated autonomous-capable vehicles 04:41 - Right-hand-drive vehicles and spotting one on the road 06:31 - Why left-hand drive would raise safety concerns 07:21 - The supervision caveat that changes everything 09:18 - A one-year trial that kicks the issue down the road 11:34 - Why the wider public and politicians are also sceptical 12:22 - London Assembly questions whether TfL has rushed this 14:14 - Why the London trial may be about optics as much as function 16:44 - Is it really driverless if someone sits behind the wheel? 18:38 - What exactly has TfL licensed? 20:14 - Camera, radar, and compliance double standards 21:39 - Recording in public versus TfL approval rules 23:10 - Privacy labels, QR codes, and inconsistent vehicle standards 24:37 - Conclusion that this is basically another private hire vehicle 25:35 - The supervising driver must be licensed and DBS checked 27:12 - Blind passenger assistance and why human drivers still matter 30:33 - Accessibility, cycle lanes, and the limits of automation in London 33:03 - Why knowledge students and cab drivers are less exposed than app-based drivers 35:13 - American guests and why many people distrust driverless cars 36:01 - The social cost of pushing people further apart 37:51 - Final wrap-up: the trial is mostly spin for now 39:03 - Subscribe, watch time, and channel growth update “Is it driverless or isn’t it driverless?” “They’ve licensed an autonomous capable vehicle, but they are being supervised for a year.” “You are the supervisor of your cab.” The Cab Chat Show is a podcast mainly centred around London and it's Iconic Black Cab Trade but also including the Hackney Carriage trade around the UK The Cab Chat Show has been running since 2014 and is the longest running Taxi related podcast in the UK. Visit the Cab Chat YouTube Channel http://cabchat.uk Visit Jamie the Cabby YouTube Channel / @jamiethecabby Vist Tom the Taxi Driver Channel / @tomthetaxidriver CHECK ME OUT: 💌 Sign up to our newsletter - https://jamiethecabby.com/newsletter 🌍 My website - https://www.cabchatshow.uk 📸 Instagram - https://instagram.com/cabchatuk 🐦 Twitter - https://twitter.com/cabchat 🚕 To book a Wedding Taxi - https://weddingtaxis.co.uk 🚕 To book a Tour of London - https://jamiethecabby 💍 Wedding Transport 🎬 Filming Hire ✈️ Airport Transfers 📢 Promotions 🚕 Taxi Advertising 🎥 Studio Tours 📩 admin@cabchatshow.uk 📸 @cabchatuk 🌍 Link in bio Equipment I use: Sony a6700 https://amzn.to/4j76Nnk Sony ZV1 https://amzn.to/4iPvZze Macbook Air 13" https://amzn.to/444ndZr DJI Osmo Pocket 3 https://amzn.to/3DMBgIH DJI Osmo Pockt 2 https://amzn.to/43yF4Yw DJi Osmo Action 5 https://amzn.to/4j9ZHPd GoPro Hero https://amzn.to/3Y0y8jl Rode Wireless Go 2 https://amzn.to/446OtGP Rode Podmic USB https://amzn.to/3Rfzenz Call me a Cabbie by Phil Nelson & Mark Bird We are London by The Knowledge Band Don't forget to Like & Subscribe. 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